Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am with you.  #TeamVaughn  He is going to be a great hitter.

I think he's a good hitter but he's a 1B and if they could get someone with more positional value under team control I wouldn't complain. I wouldn't give him away, but someone like Alek Thomas or Jazz Chisholm I'd probably do without thinking twice. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

He is a TERRIBLE defender, so he has no defensive position he can play.  His bat can only carry him so much, and with other DH's in front of him, yeah there isn't a real spot for him on a full and healthy roster.

Well he'll either be traded or get better with the glove.  The guy is a bulldog coming back from his injuries. He'll certainly work at getting better defensively.

If the Sox are working out a trade now for Stone Garrett, I can see them offering Burger or Sanchez . One AAA guy for the other. Burger just a little younger.

[Snopek]

32 minutes ago, T R U said:

The White Sox had a top 10 payroll last year and will again this year, they are serious about contending but that doesn't mean they are good at it.

I'd say they're serious by White Sox standards, but not relative to actual contenders in the league. And yes, they are not good at their version of serious.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Well he'll either be traded or get better with the glove.  The guy is a bulldog coming back from his injuries. He'll certainly work at getting better defensively.

If the Sox are working out a trade now for Stone Garrett, I can see them offering Burger or Sanchez . One AAA guy for the other. Burger just a little younger.

He's been working on his defense for years.  He is a brick at 3B.  Some guys just don't have the ability to get better.  No matter how much Andrew Vaughn practices in RF, he's never going to be a plus defender.  Its the same with Burger.  He doesn't have the tools for it.

[T R U]

Just now, Snopek said:

I'd say they're serious by White Sox standards, but not relative to actual contenders in the league. And yes, they are not good at their version of serious.

Of course, im sure they think they are doing everything they can to win a title.

[Jack Parkman]

10 minutes ago, Snopek said:

I'd say they're serious by White Sox standards, but not relative to actual contenders in the league. And yes, they are not good at their version of serious.

This. 

[Snopek]

1 minute ago, T R U said:

Of course, im sure they think they are doing everything they can to win a title.

That's where I would disagree. I feel like their version of being serious is settling for a team that is "good enough" and then hoping best case scenarios play out (i.e. Andrew Vaughn you are now a starting outfielder, Gavin Sheets you are our big left handed bat and also an outfielder). They don't exactly go the extra mile to fill holes.

[Bob Sacamano]

33 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think if they could trade AV for Alek Thomas, I'd do it. 

1B is a pretty easy spot to fill. They could even entertain Eloy there if he objects to DH so much. I wouldn't because Eloy has no awareness of walls, but they could do that if they so choose. 

They already have a couple of 1B in AZ.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 11/17/2022 at 9:17 AM, 35thstreetswarm said:

Yes, this is the kind of shakeup and infusion of youth that I could get behind. 

All at a minimal cost depending on how willing the Dodgers are to part with Outman and who they give up to AZ. to get 1st crack at Garrett. But that's a lot of mid 20's guys with little MLB experience but defensively they would be a huge improvement in the OF and on the bases with a lot of offensive upside. There'd be plenty of K's but also plenty of HR's.

I'd also be checking into Arestides Aquino. He's had his moment in the sun but another big power hitter who can play defense with a great arm who was DFA'd by the Reds. He's been with them his whole career and maybe a change of scenery helps him. Even during the rebuild days the Sox came up with Palka who hit 27 HRs in 2018 . Problem was Palka couldn't field a lick.

Outman, Colas and Garrett have the potential to be ROY type guys. Legit 4-5 WAR potential given their power and defensive abilities. You don't often have a shot at those type of guys. Usually it's the Palka lumbering types I remember the Sox always picking up during the rebuild.

Speed with the new pickoff rules and pitch clock, defense, youth, running and gunning base runners down . Guys flying around instead of plodding. It would be an exciting OF defensively and offensively.

Edited November 18, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He's been working on his defense for years.  He is a brick at 3B.  Some guys just don't have the ability to get better.  No matter how much Andrew Vaughn practices in RF, he's never going to be a plus defender.  Its the same with Burger.  He doesn't have the tools for it.

No sense arguing about it. Players get better  or they don't which is why I'd be willing to part with him for a OF guy who got DFA'd

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think if they could trade AV for Alek Thomas, I'd do it. 

1B is a pretty easy spot to fill. They could even entertain Eloy there if he objects to DH so much. I wouldn't because Eloy has no awareness of walls, but they could do that if they so choose. 

Eloy would tear his biceps on the first time he needed to dive for at 1B.  He’s either a DH or a LF and I think it’s very by now that’s the former if you want any hope of him playing 140+ games.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Chicago White Sox

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Eloy would tear his biceps on the first time he needed to dive for at 1B.  He’s either a DH or a LF and I think it’s very by now that’s the former if you want any hope of him playing 140+ games.

Oh I think it's an idiotic move and he should only DH. I'm just saying it's an option for the dumb FO. 

[Jack Parkman]

52 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

They already have a couple of 1B in AZ.

I was unaware, thanks. 

Maybe Chisholm is a better option. 

I'd only trade AV for someone like that that is a lefty bat. 

I'm perfectly fine keeping AV because I think his ceiling is Maggs. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[southsider2k5]

42 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

No sense arguing about it. Players get better  or they don't which is why I'd be willing to part with him for a OF guy who got DFA'd

I am not sure what exactly you expect here.  The guy is literally amongst the worst defensive 3B in baseball right now.  Out of all of the players who played as many inning as he did at 3rd last year, his defensive zone rating was 4th worst.  His outs above average was 4th worst.  Slots 1-3 were held by people with 3 or 4 times as many innings in the field to make that many mistakes.  His range was 5th worst in baseball.

Like we aren't talking about a below average 3b here.  We are talking about literally one of the worst defenders in baseball.  Even if he "gets better" he is still going to be awful over there. It's not like he is bad and has the tools that could make him better.  With his tools, the gap between his ability and his ceiling isn't big enough to overcome his horribleness at 3rd.  Even with his bat, because of his defense, he was barely a positive fWAR player.  That's pretty impressive with a .760 OPS.

 

[TheFutureIsNear]

23 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am not sure what exactly you expect here.  The guy is literally amongst the worst defensive 3B in baseball right now.  Out of all of the players who played as many inning as he did at 3rd last year, his defensive zone rating was 4th worst.  His outs above average was 4th worst.  Slots 1-3 were held by people with 3 or 4 times as many innings in the field to make that many mistakes.  His range was 5th worst in baseball.

Like we aren't talking about a below average 3b here.  We are talking about literally one of the worst defenders in baseball.  Even if he "gets better" he is still going to be awful over there. It's not like he is bad and has the tools that could make him better.  With his tools, the gap between his ability and his ceiling isn't big enough to overcome his horribleness at 3rd.  Even with his bat, because of his defense, he was barely a positive fWAR player.  That's pretty impressive with a .760 OPS.

 

Add in the fact that he’s slow as dirt and you’ve got a ceiling of a mediocre 1B(maybe?)/DH type. I’d have absolutely no problem with Burger being involved in a trade this off-season…if he has much value at all. 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Add in the fact that he’s slow as dirt and you’ve got a ceiling of a mediocre 1B(maybe?)/DH type. I’d have absolutely no problem with Burger being involved in a trade this off-season…if he has much value at all. 

Look, if someone was to offer us something even decent for Jake Burger, I would drive him to Midway.  Heck even to ORD.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am not sure what exactly you expect here.  The guy is literally amongst the worst defensive 3B in baseball right now.  Out of all of the players who played as many inning as he did at 3rd last year, his defensive zone rating was 4th worst.  His outs above average was 4th worst.  Slots 1-3 were held by people with 3 or 4 times as many innings in the field to make that many mistakes.  His range was 5th worst in baseball.

Like we aren't talking about a below average 3b here.  We are talking about literally one of the worst defenders in baseball.  Even if he "gets better" he is still going to be awful over there. It's not like he is bad and has the tools that could make him better.  With his tools, the gap between his ability and his ceiling isn't big enough to overcome his horribleness at 3rd.  Even with his bat, because of his defense, he was barely a positive fWAR player.  That's pretty impressive with a .760 OPS.

 

LOL so you decide to argue it figures. Remember all those times you were arguing that Vaughn was a perfectly capable LF and I was arguing with the whole board who were buying the hype like you . ANd I told you and everyone else Vaughn was not nor ever was he going to be a good OF .

Unlike you I never said a bad defensive player was competent because I use my eyes without bias. I said he would work to improve because he's that kind of person unlike a few more talented guys the Sox have. I practically said Burger was DFA material by trading him for a DFA'd guy.  I'm not sure what exactly expect here but you decided to argue so here we are.

 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

LOL so you decide to argue it figures. Remember all those times you were arguing that Vaughn was a perfectly capable LF and I was arguing with the whole board who were buying the hype like you . ANd I told you and everyone else Vaughn was not nor ever was he going to be a good OF .

Unlike you I never said a bad defensive player was competent because I use my eyes without bias. I said he would work to improve because he's that kind of person unlike a few more talented guys the Sox have. I practically said Burger was DFA material by trading him for a DFA'd guy.  I'm not sure what exactly expect here but you decided to argue so here we are.

 

The difference being that Vaughn actually put defensive numbers that put him into the top half of defenders in LF in 2021, and then regressed hardcore in 2022.  But it is apparently that you still have hurt feelings about something from last year, so rage away.

Also if you don't want to "argue", don't reply.  See how easy that is?  Move along then.

[A-Train to 35th]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The difference being that Vaughn actually put defensive numbers that put him into the top half of defenders in LF in 2021, and then regressed hardcore in 2022.  But it is apparently that you still have hurt feelings about something from last year, so rage away.

Also if you don't want to "argue", don't reply.  See how easy that is?  Move along then.

You just keep on reinforcing what an Ass you are.

Edited November 18, 2022 by A-Train to 35th
sp

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

You just keep on reinforcing what an Ass you are.

Aw.  Cute.

[maloney.adam]

When did the clown show arrive into town? Still no moves by the front office.

Edited November 18, 2022 by maloney.adam

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

The difference being that Vaughn actually put defensive numbers that put him into the top half of defenders in LF in 2021, and then regressed hardcore in 2022.  But it is apparently that you still have hurt feelings about something from last year, so rage away.

Also if you don't want to "argue", don't reply.  See how easy that is?  Move along then.

You bore me .

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You bore me .

Then move along.  You notice I didn't say a word to you until you responded to me. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Then move along. 

You move along. How often do you have to be told that defensive stats are not stats that can do used in  short sample sizes One year of stats is never enough. Your ignorance is astounding. Your baseball knowledge terrible.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You move along. How often do you have to be told that defensive stats are not stats that can do used in  short sample sizes One year of stats is never enough. Your ignorance is astounding. Your baseball knowledge terrible.

Look, if you want to have a baseball debate, let's do it.  If you just want to get your feelings hurt, find somewhere else to do it, and quit ruining threads because it hurt your feelings that I disagreed with you on a meaningless baseball topic a year ago. 

The last thing I want to hear is you crying more.  I quit responding to your posts a year ago when you got so hurt  last time around.  When you directly respond to me, of course I am going to respond.  If that bothers you, you control your own reply button.  You can even have your insults to make you feel better.