Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[Balta1701]

14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Which is I why I included Sosa in my trade proposal with the Dodgers.

Not in the post that you were replying to? That was written earlier this afternoon about Hendriks for Lux alone.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Not in the post that you were replying to? That was written earlier this afternoon about Hendriks for Lux alone.

Oh I know, I was just saying I agree with you based on my recent post.

[TheFutureIsNear]

How much (if any) excess value would a Hendricks for Winker and Golazes trade have in our favor? I think it makes sense for both sides in terms of need and reallocating $. But I do think Hendricks is easily the most valuable player in the deal so I would hope to get 1 of several near MLB ready OF prospects the Mariners have as well. Thoughts?

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

How much (if any) excess value would a Hendricks for Winker and Golazes trade have in our favor? I think it makes sense for both sides in terms of need and reallocating $. But I do think Hendricks is easily the most valuable player in the deal so I would hope to get 1 of several near MLB ready OF prospects the Mariners have as well. Thoughts?

Gonzales is legit bad and Winker is another DH.  I don’t understand how that trade would help us compete next year.  Just move Hendricks for prospects if you’re looking to rebuild.

[GreenSox]

22 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Do you guys think there is anything fair about Hendriks for Lux straight up? 

I tend to think that Lux has more value but I'm not entirely sure. 

I don't think  Lux' 3 WAR is anywhere close to legit.  He doesn't hit for power, his D is okay, not great, and his OBP is good, not great.  He's kind of what we would could have reasonably expected out of Madrigal.  Sosa or Gonzales should be able to deliver  something close to that.
Sox really need outfielders.
 

Edited November 20, 2022 by GreenSox

[TheFutureIsNear]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Gonzales is legit bad and Winker is another DH.  I don’t understand how that trade would help us compete next year.  Just move Hendricks for prospects if you’re looking to rebuild.

Gonzales is a reasonably priced 4th/5th starter than can throw 180+ innings of 4ish ERA ball…exactly what we need

And Winker is a lefty with a career OPS of .800+. If we have Robert and Colas in the other 2 OF spots we can live with a below average LF.

 

And a match needed young depth OF’er with upside sweetens the deal .

 

I swear some of you are expecting miracles to happen just so you can b**** and complain when they don’t.  Just trying to throw out realistic ideas.

[Chicago White Sox]

23 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Gonzales is a reasonably priced 4th/5th starter than can throw 180+ innings of 4ish ERA ball…exactly what we need

And Winker is a lefty with a career OPS of .800+. If we have Robert and Colas in the other 2 OF spots we can live with a below average LF.

 

And a match needed young depth OF’er with upside sweetens the deal .

 

I swear some of you are expecting miracles to happen just so you can b**** and complain when they don’t.  Just trying to throw out realistic ideas.

Marco Gonzales put up a 5.05 FIP and struck out 5.07 per 9.  The dude can give you innings, but they will likely be garbage a la Dallas Keuchel.  Unless you are giving up someone like Leury for him, there is zero reason to consider him.

Winker would be an interesting buy low candidate if we didn’t already have four or five 1B/DH to choose from.  As such, I don’t see a fit and I am 100% opposed of having another shitty defender in the OF.

[GreenSox]

59 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Gonzales is a reasonably priced 4th/5th starter than can throw 180+ innings of 4ish ERA ball…exactly what we need

And Winker is a lefty with a career OPS of .800+. If we have Robert and Colas in the other 2 OF spots we can live with a below average LF.

 

And a match needed young depth OF’er with upside sweetens the deal .

 

I swear some of you are expecting miracles to happen just so you can b**** and complain when they don’t.  Just trying to throw out realistic ideas.

Then trade Graveman for them.  If you go by WAR, Graveman had a higher WAR than Gonzalez and Winker combined last year (quite the feat, as WAR generally disfavors relievers).

You just can't trade a good player, Hendriks, for 2 mediocre/bad players.  

[SoxBlanco]

November 21 is the day we made a big move early in the offseason in 2019 by signing Grandal. So who are we signing tomorrow?

[ChiSox59]

19 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

November 21 is the day we made a big move early in the offseason in 2019 by signing Grandal. So who are we signing tomorrow?

Man, was I excited when that happened. Little did I think that would be the largest FA signing they’d make during this window.

[SoxBlanco]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Man, was I excited when that happened. Little did I think that would be the largest FA signing they’d make during this window.

Me too. It was exactly what we needed at the time. Just like Nimmo this offseason. 

[Vote4Pedro]

53 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Man, was I excited when that happened. Little did I think that would be the largest FA signing they’d make during this window.

Yep. I was super pumped headed to my daughters thanksgiving dinner at her school and was thinking here we finally go….only to have just about every signing after go down the crapper and an ownership and GM cry poor….such a shame

[bmags]

On 11/19/2022 at 8:13 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Thinking through this a bit, here is what I’d do this off-season assuming we have $20M to work with:

Trades:

• CL Liam Hendriks & IF Lenyn Sosa to LAD for 2B Gavin Lux & RHP Andre Jackson
• 3B Jake Burger to the Brewers for LHP Robert Gasser

Free Agents:

• OF Michael Conforto - 1/$15M
• SP Mike Clevinger - 1/$12M
• OF Adam Duvall - 1/$6M

Roster:

1. Anderson, SS
2. Lux, 2B*
3. Vaughn, 1B
4. Jimenez, DH
5. Conforto, LF*
6. Robert, CF
7. Moncada, 3B#
8. Grandal, C#
9. Colas, RF*

• IF: Gonzalez
• OF: Duvall
• UT: Garcia#
• BC: Zavala

1. Cease
2. Lynn
3. Kopech
4. Giolito
5. Clevinger

• CL: Graveman
• SU: Bummer*
• SU: Lopez
• MR: Kelly
• MR: Lambert
• MR: Diekman*
• MR: Ruiz
• LR: Davis/Jackson/Gasser*

Summary:

The offense has a chance to be significantly better with the addition of two LH bats on top of Colas.  Conforto was one of the best hitters against RHP in the majors prior to the 2021 season and Lux put up a 118 wRC+ against righties last year.  The bench is versatile and should be able to help against tough LHP.  The defense should actually be pretty good outside of catcher with massive improvements in the OF and a quality 2B added to replace Big Energy.

For the rotation, I go for ceiling with Clevinger vs. a similarly priced floor option like Quintana.  He is a guy that the organization previously wanted and I’d love to see what Katz can do with him as the rust from TJS wears off.  Beyond just the #5 spot, adding some depth in AAA is also critical.  As such, I also acquire a prospect whose stock is down in Jackson and then use Burger to get a young lefty in Gasser who can compete with Davis for the #6 spot and/or swing role.

The bullpen is a wildcard.  I hate giving up Liam, but I don’t see another way to bring back talent and free up salary space.  The hope is that Graveman or Lopez can do a halfway decent of replacing him at closer.  The rest of the pen definitely makes me a bit nervous, although Crochet will be at some point and hopefully provide an impact arm.  This a spot we’ll likely need reinforcements by the deadline if still competitive, but not worth over-investing now.

All this stuff makes sense on its face, but I balk a bit at the actual guys. I just think we are talking about a very questionable clubhouse at this point. You subtract Abreu, and in to fill the void is

Mike Clevinger - guy who lies to his team going out on the quarantine year during a 60 game season while playing for the playoffs including getting on the plane and having clubhouse turn against him - and

Mike Conforto - guy who during the most important few months of his life injures himself "training" (at a bachelor party).

And Lux...he's fine. His best quality is that he's left handed.

[pcq]

Transaction update. Congrats to AV getting married as reported in People magazine! Check it out. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

All this stuff makes sense on its face, but I balk a bit at the actual guys. I just think we are talking about a very questionable clubhouse at this point. You subtract Abreu, and in to fill the void is

Mike Clevinger - guy who lies to his team going out on the quarantine year during a 60 game season while playing for the playoffs including getting on the plane and having clubhouse turn against him - and

Mike Conforto - guy who during the most important few months of his life injures himself "training" (at a bachelor party).

And Lux...he's fine. His best quality is that he's left handed.

Clevinger is definitely a wild card and I can see the clubhouse concerns.  There are other SPs in this price tier I’d be fine with.  Conforto I’m less concerned about simply because I haven’t heard anything bad about him specifically.  Out of all the buy-low LH OFs, he’s probably the highest on my list.  He’s a big risk no doubt, but I see an easier path to quality offensive production than I do with Bellinger or Gallo.

As for Lux, I’m probably higher on him than most.  I think he’s barely scratched the surface of his potential and that he has legit star 2B upside.  Whether he hits that ceiling or not remains to be seen, but even if he never taps into his plus raw power he should be an above average hitter against RHP and provide quality defense at 2B.

[Bob Sacamano]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Clevinger is definitely a wild card and I can see the clubhouse concerns.  There are other SPs in this price tier I’d be fine with.  Conforto I’m less concerned about simply because I haven’t heard anything bad about him specifically.  Out of all the buy-low LH OFs, he’s probably the highest on my list.  He’s a big risk no doubt, but I see an easier path to quality offensive production than I do with Bellinger or Gallo.

As for Lux, I’m probably higher on him than most.  I think he’s barely scratched the surface of his potential and that he has legit star 2B upside.  Whether he hits that ceiling or not remains to be seen, but even if he never taps into his plus raw power he should be an above average hitter against RHP and provide quality defense at 2B.

I’m kind of high on Lux but he’s also currently penciled in to be their starting SS. Adding a SS, he would be penciled at 2B.

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

As for Lux, I’m probably higher on him than most.  I think he’s barely scratched the surface of his potential and that he has legit star 2B upside.  Whether he hits that ceiling or not remains to be seen, but even if he never taps into his plus raw power he should be an above average hitter against RHP and provide quality defense at 2B.

The thing is…if the Dodgers believe this too, which they might, then you’ll never get anywhere near him even for a trade that is fair on paper. And I do think it’s fair to say the Dodgers are going to know their players better than anyone in the league other than maybe Tampa Bay.

[bmags]

33 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Clevinger is definitely a wild card and I can see the clubhouse concerns.  There are other SPs in this price tier I’d be fine with.  Conforto I’m less concerned about simply because I haven’t heard anything bad about him specifically.  Out of all the buy-low LH OFs, he’s probably the highest on my list.  He’s a big risk no doubt, but I see an easier path to quality offensive production than I do with Bellinger or Gallo.

As for Lux, I’m probably higher on him than most.  I think he’s barely scratched the surface of his potential and that he has legit star 2B upside.  Whether he hits that ceiling or not remains to be seen, but even if he never taps into his plus raw power he should be an above average hitter against RHP and provide quality defense at 2B.

Conforto failed @fathom’s vibe test and quite honestly it has been a pretty good indicator.

[he gone.]

based on the names i've seen floating around twitter I am not surprised, but still disappointed this is the path we're considering. I have many doubts we'll find lightning in a bottle on guys that others are passing on.

 

i like hendriks a ton, but at this point it seems like the only viable option to bring back real, meaningful talent since JR and team will not be putting in a real effort to supplement the talent we already have. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 minute ago, he gone. said:

based on the names i've seen floating around twitter I am not surprised, but still disappointed this is the path we're considering. I have many doubts we'll find lightning in a bottle on guys that others are passing on.

 

i like hendriks a ton, but at this point it seems like the only viable option to bring back real, meaningful talent since JR and team will not be putting in a real effort to supplement the talent we already have. 

agreed.  He can bring back cheaper meaningful talent.

[Jack Parkman]

 

 

 

Potential Sox targets: 

Quintana: 2/32 (16M AAV) 

Manaea: 2/28 (14M AAV) 

Clevinger: 1/10M

Wacha: 1/9.5M

 

If that's where Quintana and Manaea are at, then they're firmly out of the Sox price range. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

20 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

 

 

 

Potential Sox targets: 

Quintana: 2/32 (16M AAV) 

Manaea: 2/28 (14M AAV) 

Clevinger: 1/10M

Wacha: 1/9.5M

 

If that's where Quintana and Manaea are at, then they're firmly out of the Sox price range. 

At those contracts and prices, Cleinger is the ONLY one where I see some value.

[Good Guys]

If the front office could pull it off.  I think something like this would be an ideal off-season all things considered.

https://www-southsidesox-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.southsidesox.com/platform/amp/2022/11/21/23459755/luke-smailes-chicago-white-sox-offseason-plan?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16692201039406&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.southsidesox.com%2F2022%2F11%2F21%2F23459755%2Fluke-smailes-chicago-white-sox-offseason-plan

[Chicago White Sox]

@Sleepy Harold - You should listen to the White Sox Talk Podcast if you haven’t already.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

 

1 hour ago, Good Guys said:

If the front office could pull it off.  I think something like this would be an ideal off-season all things considered.

https://www-southsidesox-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.southsidesox.com/platform/amp/2022/11/21/23459755/luke-smailes-chicago-white-sox-offseason-plan?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16692201039406&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.southsidesox.com%2F2022%2F11%2F21%2F23459755%2Fluke-smailes-chicago-white-sox-offseason-plan

Very meh for me.  That is a horrendous A's trade and I don't really care for the Berti trade (non-believer here).