Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

 I've mentioned James Outman as a guy I'd trade for in a Hendriks trade. Just skip down to Outman if you rather just read about him.

The Dodgers have a ton of ranked OF prospects  from MLB pipeline Aug16, 2022 Update. The 1st number is how they rank in the Dodgers system.

3. Miguel Vargas, 3B/OF (MLB No. 44) Age 23, Bats R, Throws R, 6'3 205 ,.915 OPS in 113 G at AAA , Good strike zone awareness, 71 BB 76K Scouting grades:  Hit :60 , Power: 55 , Run: 40, Arm: 55, Field:45 Overall: 55 Misc. Cuban

4. Michael Busch, 2B/OF (MLB No. 45) Age 25, Bats L, Throws R, 6'1 210, .823 OPS in 111 Games @ AAA . Not really an OF more like Muncy in that he plays 2nd and 1st base but saw time in LF . Scouting Grades: Hit 55, Power 55, Run 45, Arm 45, Field 45, Overall 55.

5. Andy Pages, OF (MLB No. 69) Age 21, 6"1 212,  Bats R, Throws R,  Stats dropped going from A+ in 2021 to AA this year. Scouting Grades: hit 45, Power 60, Run 50, Arm 65, Field 50, Overall 55. Misc. Cuban

8. Jose Ramos, OF , 21, 6'1"  200, Bats R , Throws R. Signed for $30K from Panama in 2018, Grew 2 inches and gained 50 lbs after he was signed as a 17 yr. old. Got a quick bump from A to A+ this year but he  had some difficulties. Scouting grades:  Hit 50, Power 55, Run 50, Arm 70, Field 55, Overall 50. Grades may be lower now if they haven't been adjusted for his growth especially running and fielding but he has a HUGE arm.

*13. James Outman , Age 25, 6'3" 215, Bats L throws R, In 2018 Baseball America rated him the best defensive player and best Athlete in the class.

Starting in 2021 Outman reworked his swing and since then he's gotten better and better. Every new level he did better than the previous level. He takes walks and hits for power. Despite the 13 rank in the Dodgers system I suspect the Dodgers are highest on him even over Busch and Vargas as an immediate impact player defensively and offensively.

Scouting grades: Hit 45, Power 55, Run 60, Arm 60, Field 60. Overall 50. I think if we reworked those grades his overall grade would now be a 55 minimum. He only hit .249 at Sacramento St. but he has come a long way since he was a 7th round pick in 2018 then and is a developmental system's dream player. Very capable in any OF position.

I think the Dodgers would trade Busch before they traded Outman and Busch is ranked #45 on MLB Pipeline. But I'd go after Outman if the rankings don't catch up to his true value. His upside is clearly the highest as far as potential WAR.

 

[Tnetennba]

5 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Did his D get better?  His dWAR seems to have been relatively favorable last year.

I'll admit that I haven't followed him at all since the trade and was going off of what we saw here.  

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 I've mentioned James Outman as a guy I'd trade for in a Hendriks trade. Just skip down to Outman if you rather just read about him.

The Dodgers have a ton of ranked OF prospects  from MLB pipeline Aug16, 2022 Update. The 1st number is how they rank in the Dodgers system.

3. Miguel Vargas, 3B/OF (MLB No. 44) Age 23, Bats R, Throws R, 6'3 205 ,.915 OPS in 113 G at AAA , Good strike zone awareness, 71 BB 76K Scouting grades:  Hit :60 , Power: 55 , Run: 40, Arm: 55, Field:45 Overall: 55 Misc. Cuban

4. Michael Busch, 2B/OF (MLB No. 45) Age 25, Bats L, Throws R, 6'1 210, .823 OPS in 111 Games @ AAA . Not really an OF more like Muncy in that he plays 2nd and 1st base but saw time in LF . Scouting Grades: Hit 55, Power 55, Run 45, Arm 45, Field 45, Overall 55.

5. Andy Pages, OF (MLB No. 69) Age 21, 6"1 212,  Bats R, Throws R,  Stats dropped going from A+ in 2021 to AA this year. Scouting Grades: hit 45, Power 60, Run 50, Arm 65, Field 50, Overall 55. Misc. Cuban

8. Jose Ramos, OF , 21, 6'1"  200, Bats R , Throws R. Signed for $30K from Panama in 2018, Grew 2 inches and gained 50 lbs after he was signed as a 17 yr. old. Got a quick bump from A to A+ this year but he  had some difficulties. Scouting grades:  Hit 50, Power 55, Run 50, Arm 70, Field 55, Overall 50. Grades may be lower now if they haven't been adjusted for his growth especially running and fielding but he has a HUGE arm.

*13. James Outman , Age 25, 6'3" 215, Bats L throws R, In 2018 Baseball America rated him the best defensive player and best Athlete in the class.

Starting in 2021 Outman reworked his swing and since then he's gotten better and better. Every new level he did better than the previous level. He takes walks and hits for power. Despite the 13 rank in the Dodgers system I suspect the Dodgers are highest on him even over Busch and Vargas as an immediate impact player defensively and offensively.

Scouting grades: Hit 45, Power 55, Run 60, Arm 60, Field 60. Overall 50. I think if we reworked those grades his overall grade would now be a 55 minimum. He only hit .249 at Sacramento St. but he has come a long way since he was a 7th round pick in 2018 then and is a developmental system's dream player. Very capable in any OF position.

I think the Dodgers would trade Busch before they traded Outman and Busch is ranked #45 on MLB Pipeline. But I'd go after Outman if the rankings don't catch up to his true value. His upside is clearly the highest as far as potential WAR.

 

I'd certainly hope you could do much better than Outman in a Hendriks trade. An Outman for Graveman seems much closer in value per analyzers.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I'd certainly hope you could do much better than Outman in a Hendriks trade. An Outman for Graveman seems much closer in value per analyzers.

You know every time I mention Outman in a Hendriks trade somebody says that. You'd think after all my posts about a potential Hendriks /Outman trade somebody would remember I'm not suggesting a 1 for 1 trade. Those are the main pieces but potentially not the only pieces. I'd see if I could get a SP prospect too and even throw in a prospect from our side if it helped get a deal done.

But if you want to free up the most salary for other potential moves, Hendriks is the choice.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You know every time I mention Outman in a Hendriks trade somebody says that. You'd think after all my posts about a potential Hendriks /Outman trade somebody would remember I'm not suggesting a 1 for 1 trade. Those are the main pieces but potentially not the only pieces. I'd see if I could get a SP prospect too and even throw in a prospect from our side if it helped get a deal done.

But if you want to free up the most salary for other potential moves, Hendriks is the choice.

Hendriks absolutely frees up a lot of money.  I'm for dealing him assuming we can get a serious piece back.  If we can't, then I'd prefer dumping Graveman.  You could find a taker for his salary

[Flash]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 I've mentioned James Outman as a guy I'd trade for in a Hendriks trade. Just skip down to Outman if you rather just read about him.

The Dodgers have a ton of ranked OF prospects  from MLB pipeline Aug16, 2022 Update. The 1st number is how they rank in the Dodgers system.

3. Miguel Vargas, 3B/OF (MLB No. 44) Age 23, Bats R, Throws R, 6'3 205 ,.915 OPS in 113 G at AAA , Good strike zone awareness, 71 BB 76K Scouting grades:  Hit :60 , Power: 55 , Run: 40, Arm: 55, Field:45 Overall: 55 Misc. Cuban

4. Michael Busch, 2B/OF (MLB No. 45) Age 25, Bats L, Throws R, 6'1 210, .823 OPS in 111 Games @ AAA . Not really an OF more like Muncy in that he plays 2nd and 1st base but saw time in LF . Scouting Grades: Hit 55, Power 55, Run 45, Arm 45, Field 45, Overall 55.

5. Andy Pages, OF (MLB No. 69) Age 21, 6"1 212,  Bats R, Throws R,  Stats dropped going from A+ in 2021 to AA this year. Scouting Grades: hit 45, Power 60, Run 50, Arm 65, Field 50, Overall 55. Misc. Cuban

8. Jose Ramos, OF , 21, 6'1"  200, Bats R , Throws R. Signed for $30K from Panama in 2018, Grew 2 inches and gained 50 lbs after he was signed as a 17 yr. old. Got a quick bump from A to A+ this year but he  had some difficulties. Scouting grades:  Hit 50, Power 55, Run 50, Arm 70, Field 55, Overall 50. Grades may be lower now if they haven't been adjusted for his growth especially running and fielding but he has a HUGE arm.

*13. James Outman , Age 25, 6'3" 215, Bats L throws R, In 2018 Baseball America rated him the best defensive player and best Athlete in the class.

Starting in 2021 Outman reworked his swing and since then he's gotten better and better. Every new level he did better than the previous level. He takes walks and hits for power. Despite the 13 rank in the Dodgers system I suspect the Dodgers are highest on him even over Busch and Vargas as an immediate impact player defensively and offensively.

Scouting grades: Hit 45, Power 55, Run 60, Arm 60, Field 60. Overall 50. I think if we reworked those grades his overall grade would now be a 55 minimum. He only hit .249 at Sacramento St. but he has come a long way since he was a 7th round pick in 2018 then and is a developmental system's dream player. Very capable in any OF position.

I think the Dodgers would trade Busch before they traded Outman and Busch is ranked #45 on MLB Pipeline. But I'd go after Outman if the rankings don't catch up to his true value. His upside is clearly the highest as far as potential WAR.

 

I think the Dodgers would trade Busch before they traded Outman and Busch is ranked #45 on MLB Pipeline. But I'd go after Outman if the rankings don't catch up to his true value. His upside is clearly the highest as far as potential WAR.

Love it and love Dodgers as trade partner. Might even go bigger for one or more of their ML ready arms.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

16 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Hendriks absolutely frees up a lot of money.  I'm for dealing him assuming we can get a serious piece back.  If we can't, then I'd prefer dumping Graveman.  You could find a taker for his salary

I think Outman is a serious piece. There's plenty of articles about him on pay sites like Baseball America and the Athletic.

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/mlb/james-outmans-dreamlike-dodgers-debut-was-years-in-making

https://www.mlb.com/news/james-outman-homers-3-hits-dodgers-major-league-debut 

This one Outman says he had a "cavemen" swing when he 1st got into pro ball.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/patience-pays-off-for-dodgers-james-outman/

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/james-outman-refines-his-hitting-mechanics/

I'd love an OF (L-R) of Robert, Outman, Colas or Outman , Robert, Colas.

Robert just isn't the same guy since his major injury. I wouldn't mind if the Sox moved him to LF to ease expectations. That's a pretty smooth fielding OF with plenty of offensive upside from the left side.

I honestly think it's the best path for current and future teams. They aren't going to spend this year. Everyone else you're banking on comebacks for way more money and very few years. This one year and gone stuff is bullshit.

Rookies with upside are great if you can get the core position players in the right spots and to rebound. Sox aren't going anywhere anyway without Eloy, Moncada, Gio, Kopech, Lynn, Anderson, Robert all staying on the field or producing at levels they have shown in the past.

The Sox aren't in any position to play garbage fielders in the OF . Just throw Colas and Outman out there and tell them to play hustling defense because the positions are theirs . It's up to the rest of the guys to show who they are capable of being.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 minutes ago, Flash said:

I think the Dodgers would trade Busch before they traded Outman and Busch is ranked #45 on MLB Pipeline. But I'd go after Outman if the rankings don't catch up to his true value. His upside is clearly the highest as far as potential WAR.

Love it and love Dodgers as trade partner. Might even go bigger for one or more of their ML ready arms.

Miller and Stone are good arms  in the Dodgers System. To get one of them along with Outman, Hendriks may not be enough so that's where I'd throw in a prospect.

If the Dodgers are serious about Judge. Outman may be even more available.

LOL you quoted me then quoted me again. That's my personal opinion after I got all the scouting grades and after reading as much as I could about Outman.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 I've mentioned James Outman as a guy I'd trade for in a Hendriks trade. Just skip down to Outman if you rather just read about him.

The Dodgers have a ton of ranked OF prospects  from MLB pipeline Aug16, 2022 Update. The 1st number is how they rank in the Dodgers system.

3. Miguel Vargas, 3B/OF (MLB No. 44) Age 23, Bats R, Throws R, 6'3 205 ,.915 OPS in 113 G at AAA , Good strike zone awareness, 71 BB 76K Scouting grades:  Hit :60 , Power: 55 , Run: 40, Arm: 55, Field:45 Overall: 55 Misc. Cuban

4. Michael Busch, 2B/OF (MLB No. 45) Age 25, Bats L, Throws R, 6'1 210, .823 OPS in 111 Games @ AAA . Not really an OF more like Muncy in that he plays 2nd and 1st base but saw time in LF . Scouting Grades: Hit 55, Power 55, Run 45, Arm 45, Field 45, Overall 55.

5. Andy Pages, OF (MLB No. 69) Age 21, 6"1 212,  Bats R, Throws R,  Stats dropped going from A+ in 2021 to AA this year. Scouting Grades: hit 45, Power 60, Run 50, Arm 65, Field 50, Overall 55. Misc. Cuban

8. Jose Ramos, OF , 21, 6'1"  200, Bats R , Throws R. Signed for $30K from Panama in 2018, Grew 2 inches and gained 50 lbs after he was signed as a 17 yr. old. Got a quick bump from A to A+ this year but he  had some difficulties. Scouting grades:  Hit 50, Power 55, Run 50, Arm 70, Field 55, Overall 50. Grades may be lower now if they haven't been adjusted for his growth especially running and fielding but he has a HUGE arm.

*13. James Outman , Age 25, 6'3" 215, Bats L throws R, In 2018 Baseball America rated him the best defensive player and best Athlete in the class.

Starting in 2021 Outman reworked his swing and since then he's gotten better and better. Every new level he did better than the previous level. He takes walks and hits for power. Despite the 13 rank in the Dodgers system I suspect the Dodgers are highest on him even over Busch and Vargas as an immediate impact player defensively and offensively.

Scouting grades: Hit 45, Power 55, Run 60, Arm 60, Field 60. Overall 50. I think if we reworked those grades his overall grade would now be a 55 minimum. He only hit .249 at Sacramento St. but he has come a long way since he was a 7th round pick in 2018 then and is a developmental system's dream player. Very capable in any OF position.

I think the Dodgers would trade Busch before they traded Outman and Busch is ranked #45 on MLB Pipeline. But I'd go after Outman if the rankings don't catch up to his true value. His upside is clearly the highest as far as potential WAR.

 

You think James Outman is a top 45 caliber prospect?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

28 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You think James Outman is a top 45 caliber prospect?

I think that if he wasn't a 7th round draft pick and because he took time to develop his swing to where it now, he is under ranked.

As far as comparing him to Busch. Busch is not really an OF . He's a 1st baseman, a late 1st round draft pick and much more highly touted than Outman. (1st round vs. 7th round.) So as far as needs go the Sox need Outman more than they need Busch. Very good defense to go along with his bat so I'd say his upside is higher than Busch because he can earn WAR offensively and defensively.

Busch is only 6 months younger than Outman. Since his promotion in 2021 to AA he's been about a .950 OPS guy and one of the best, if not the best, defensive OF in the Dodgers system.

As far as hitting goes I think he is equal to Busch and far better defensively.  So if Busch is ranked 45 and you want a definitive answer I'd say right now I'd rather have Outman than Busch. The need for an OF far outweighs our needs for another defensively limited player.

Plus I think what you asked is a loaded question. I'm not a scout and I don't rank prospects for a living. Asking me if I think Outman should be ranked in the top 45 is not up to me. I just identify Sox needs and see who fits them and think Outman may be under ranked and therefore thought of as less than ideal when people tell me "but he's only the 13th ranked player in the Dodgers system".

Do deeper dives instead of surface investigating.

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Jerksticks]

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I think that if he wasn't a 7th round draft pick and because he took time to develop his swing to where it now, he is under ranked.

As far as comparing him to Busch. Busch is not really an OF . He's a 1st baseman, a late 1st round draft pick and much more highly touted than Outman. (1st round vs. 7th round.) So as far as needs go the Sox need Outman more than they need Busch. Very good defense to go along with his bat so I'd say his upside is higher than Busch because he can earn WAR offensively and defensively.

Busch is only 6 months younger than Outman. Since his promotion in 2021 to AA he's been about a .950 OPS guy and one of the best, if not the best, defensive OF in the Dodgers system.

As far as hitting goes I think he is equal to Busch and far better defensively.  So if Busch is ranked 45 and you want a definitive answer I'd say right now I'd rather have Outman than Busch. The need for an OF far outweighs our needs for another defensively limited player.

Ever since you suggested outman a couple weeks ago or whatever I’m all about it.  Never even knew he existed.  
 

My whole goal for the offseason if I was GM has been to turn the outfield into one of the top units in baseball.  Outman is perfect to go next to Robert & Colas.  
 

Imagine the surplus value potential with the cost of that outfield over the next 3 years.  
 

Eloy is DH.  Experiment over.  Sorry bub

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

22 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Ever since you suggested outman a couple weeks ago or whatever I’m all about it.  Never even knew he existed.  
 

My whole goal for the offseason if I was GM has been to turn the outfield into one of the top units in baseball.  Outman is perfect to go next to Robert & Colas.  
 

Imagine the surplus value potential with the cost of that outfield over the next 3 years.  
 

Eloy is DH.  Experiment over.  Sorry bub

I probably 1st mentioned him as who I wanted to get before the Kimbrel trade went down. Instead we got Pollock.

Money down the drain as usual with this team.

Edited December 1, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[reiks12]

Apparently the Guardians are likely to trade for Sean Murphy per Morosi... 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Apparently the Guardians are likely to trade for Sean Murphy per Morosi... 

damn that would be a perfect move for them.

[G13]

We need to trade Hendrix to improve this team.  Not to mention he and tim Anderson might be the only veterans we have that other teams might have interest in.

 

Option#1..Trade hendrix to LA for minor leaguers stone and outman.  Outman can man LF (move eloy to DH) and play CF on rest days for Robert.  Stone can be groomed for a 2024 rotation spot since giolito and possibly Lynn are gone after 2023 season.

 

Option#2....3 team trade sending Hendrix somewhere and netting Brandon Lowe from the rays (plus a prospect).  LH hitting 2nd baseman, a few yrs removed from an mvp type yr.  Is on a great contract and currently too pricey for the rays.  If this option is done, we would also need to lock up conforto (LF, have to DH eloy) on a 1 yr deal ($15mil?) if healthy.

 

Just an fyi.... We shouldnt sign w.contreras, we do not need another part time catcher.

[reiks12]

38 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

damn that would be a perfect move for them.

We are incredibly lucky their owner doesnt want to spend a dime on the team

[The Beast]

Any quants on here want to talk me off a ledge regarding the Sox not replacing Abreu with anyone except Vaughn and how they could go with a platoon in right field (Sheets and Colas) instead of investing in an every day player?

[hi8is]

1 hour ago, The Beast said:

Any quants on here want to talk me off a ledge regarding the Sox not replacing Abreu with anyone except Vaughn and how they could go with a platoon in right field (Sheets and Colas) instead of investing in an every day player?

They need AT LEAST one everyday player in the outfield. 
 

Vaughn + Colas + FA + Eloy ( DH ) > Abreu + Sheets + Pollock + Vaughn

[Jack Parkman]

I was legit excited for this team after 2020.....then they hired Drunk Tony and Eloy/Robert got hurt.....it's been all downhill from there. 2022 was supposed to be the peak year in the window. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, The Beast said:

Any quants on here want to talk me off a ledge regarding the Sox not replacing Abreu with anyone except Vaughn and how they could go with a platoon in right field (Sheets and Colas) instead of investing in an every day player?

I think the Sox have to go forward with Vaughn. This is one thing I agree with everyone on. 2023 could be an even bigger breakout year since it'll be his 3rd year in the league. 1st year was a disaster offensively but not unexpected given he was out of position and had very little time in the minors .

2nd year was a disaster defensively but he started showing his potential offensively. He didn't have the legs to play OF and it wore him out. He'll be in more of a comfort zone  playing 1st base.

Sheets :I really wanted him to do well last year. He showed it at home offensively but as a whole that's only 1/4 of the job. the other 3/4 is offensively on the road (terrible) and defensively both at home and on the road (also terrible).  There's no room for him in the OF. The Sox have to improve defensively.  A Sheets /Colas platoon doesn't work for me because it requires Sheets to play OF and both are LH.

Colas showed in the minors he can hit LHP. I'm not expecting miracles from him as a rookie but he needs to play every day and more than Vaughn did his 1st year. He should have the chops defensively . Offensively I don't think he'll be a liability but he has holes in his game. Mostly ones that a lot of guys do, mainly K's and plate discipline but I think he needs to be just playing and helping defensively and the bat may surprise us all. At least the majority of pitchers he'll be facing are RH so that will help as much as it hurt Vaughn.

Sheets should be traded. He isn't versatile enough to be on the roster as a bench piece. Of course he could be a depth piece in the Minors at 1st base if Vaughn gets hurt.

[SoxBlanco]

10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Vaughn:  1st year was a disaster offensively

If a wRC+ of 93 is a “disaster” for a rookie who skipped AA and AAA, then we are looking at one of the best hitters in the game. 

[michelangelosmonkey]

2 hours ago, The Beast said:

Any quants on here want to talk me off a ledge regarding the Sox not replacing Abreu with anyone except Vaughn and how they could go with a platoon in right field (Sheets and Colas) instead of investing in an every day player?

Hardball Times aging curve.   Abreu entering year 36 and Vaughn entering year 25.  At 35/24 Abreu put up a .820 OPS down from previous year and forty points below his career average and Vaughn put up a .750 OPS up fifty points from age 23.  And remember...Vaughn sat out his age 22 year because of Covid shutdown and his age 21 year he never played above A ball.  He's aging and growing into his body while learning how to play in the major leagues and being forced into a new position.   I would be surprised if Vaughn didn't put up a better OPS than Abreu this year.   I love Abreu but I don't want to give 10% of the annual budget for the next three years to his 36-37-38 years.   I also think that Vaughn will put up an .850 OPS at first base for the next five years.  Without digging deeply into it I think the lost COVID year (minor leagues + Kopek) hurt the Sox window more than Tony LaRussa.  So many young guys on the cusp that should have helped last year but lost a full year of development.    

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Screenshot-2015-12-09-at-8.54.11-PM-e1449712514782.png

[Dick Allen]

I’m a big Vaughn fan and think he will be much better all around as a 1B. I love Jose, but you don’t want him eating up all that budget space for declining years. One thing I have an issue with concerning Vaughn is if playing the OF caused his late season drop off, that’s on him. First, it’s not that physically demanding to play LF. C’mon man. Second, he knew he was going to be an OF, it was on him to prepare for it.Mentally, coming to the major leagues, playing out of position, is a tough ask, but physically, unless he’s playing catcher, it’s on him.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

Sorry didn’t know where to put this…rosters are going back to 25 this year?

[Tnetennba]

9 hours ago, SoxBlanco said:

If a wRC+ of 93 is a “disaster” for a rookie who skipped AA and AAA, then we are looking at one of the best hitters in the game. 

AV had some struggles and faded down the stretch, but I’d hardly call it a disaster offensively.  Calling it a disaster feels more like someone has an axe to grind than any real critique.