Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

How many innings has he played at first base? There's no question that he's the worst defensive outfielder in the entire sport. How would Jose Abreu have fared in an outfield corner because that's essentially what they asked Andrew Vaughn to do. 

well jose was pretty terrible to start out at first so for this year not sure we are getting equal defense then.

[Y2Jimmy0]

3 minutes ago, Baron said:

Nothing you run it back. That's clearly the best they can do now. What are they doing now as he's gone? 

This is just not possible, man. So you're playing Vaughn in the outfield again? If you wanted to keep Abreu and trade Vaughn, that's an actual plan. Running it back isn't though. 

[SoxBlanco]

6 minutes ago, Baron said:

His UZR from Bill James is about -5 to -9. His DRS over a full season translates to about -10/-11. Fangraphs overall for his career (290 Total innings) is -1.3. DRS is -5. It's not trending in a good direction for such a small amount of innings. 

I have no idea what you're talking about. Are those outfield metrics?  Maybe I just don't follow what you're saying, but we're talking about 1B here.

[Baron]

Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said:

This is just not possible, man. So you're playing Vaughn in the outfield again? If you wanted to keep Abreu and trade Vaughn, that's an actual plan. Running it back isn't though. 

Answer my question then. What are they doing without Jose? They let him go to the Astros who we are supposedly sitting competing with. Great. Are they spending that money on free agents? We just got into a whole argument on how they can't do that now. So as it sits we're worse off than last year correct? I know I know you expect Jose to nose dive. 

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I don't know if you know this but Ken Williams is Rick Hahn's boss. And they should both be fired. 

I’m pretty sure KW and RH would be ex executives if they had performed like they have performed for 29 of the 30 MLB organizations. Granted JR plays a role in their failure, they still have problems putting together teams that compete with teams with the same payroll or lower.

[Baron]

Just now, SoxBlanco said:

I have no idea what you're talking about. Are those outfield metrics?  Maybe I just don't follow what you're saying, but we're talking about 1B here.

No believe it or not he actually played first base. Were you paying attention? 

[SoxBlanco]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

well jose was pretty terrible to start out at first so for this year not sure we are getting equal defense then.

Jose was terrible to start, then improved, and then it seemed like he was bad again last year.  I'm simply using the eye test, but I recall multiple instances of him just dropping the ball on a throw not in the dirt.

[Y2Jimmy0]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Great; I don't know if you know this, but most people have bosses but they're still responsible for doing their job.

Constantly excusing away Hahn's actions as Kenny and Jerry meddling is just laughable. 

I'm not excusing anything. He should be fired. Sox fans think Rick Hahn is the boogeyman though and he just isn't. Jerry Reinsdorf is. 

1 minute ago, Baron said:

So which is it? He's fine or that he needs more innings before we judge him? 

This is nuts and so disingenuous. I firmly believe he'll be decent-good defensively at first base because that's his position and that one he was drafted to play. How he does defensively at first base has nothing to do with how he played in the outfield. 

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

What would you have done to bring back Abreu? He's back at 1B on a 3/60 deal. What's the rest of your plan? 

I honestly think if we had reached out long before this off season, they could have extended him shorter and cheaper.  I have no proof, and maybe the TLR stuff was the cause of his leaving, but it really seemed like there was a conversation a long time ago about him leaving.  With Abreu I think if they had made a real effort to keep him, he would have stayed, and it wouldn't have needed to be 3/60 to do it.

[Y2Jimmy0]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

well jose was pretty terrible to start out at first so for this year not sure we are getting equal defense then.

Where is it coming from that Vaughn is a bad first baseman? Also, it's first base. It's not that big of a deal. He has to hit. That's my bigger concern. 

[Baron]

2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I'm not excusing anything. He should be fired. Sox fans think Rick Hahn is the boogeyman though and he just isn't. Jerry Reinsdorf is. 

This is nuts and so disingenuous. I firmly believe he'll be decent-good defensively at first base because that's his position and that one he was drafted to play. How he does defensively at first base has nothing to do with how he played in the outfield. 

Your the only one who brought up the outfield. You switched your argument from he's fine to give him more time. 

[SoxBlanco]

1 minute ago, Baron said:

No believe it or not he actually played first base. Were you paying attention? 

Wait, Vaughn has played 290 innings at 1B?  I guess I wasn't paying attention. I thought he played mostly OF and DH.

[Baron]

Just now, SoxBlanco said:

Wait, Vaughn has played 290 innings at 1B?  I guess I wasn't paying attention. I thought he played mostly OF and DH.

That's over 2021-2022. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

3 minutes ago, Baron said:

Answer my question then. What are they doing without Jose? They let him go to the Astros who we are supposedly sitting competing with. Great. Are they spending that money on free agents? We just got into a whole argument on how they can't do that now. So as it sits we're worse off than last year correct? I know I know you expect Jose to nose dive. 

Vaughn will be at 1B, Eloy will likely DH. Oscar Colas will play RF and they'll add another LHH to play LF. Will it be better? I have no idea. The lineup will be more balanced and the defense will be better overall though. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 minute ago, Baron said:

Your the only one who brought up the outfield. You switched your argument from he's fine to give him more time. 

I never said to give him more time. That was a different poster. You cited a bunch of Bill James nonsense about his outfield play and then used that to prove that he's a bad first baseman. I truly don't understand what's happening right now. 

[SoxBlanco]

1 minute ago, Baron said:

That's over 2021-2022. 

Ah, makes sense.  My bad.

[Baron]

Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I never said to give him more time. That was a different poster. You cited a bunch of Bill James nonsense about his outfield play and then used that to prove that he's a bad first baseman. I truly don't understand what's happening right now. 

I never ever said outfield play. That's Bill James projections for him at first base. Why the hell would I compare his outfield play vs his first base play. 

[Dick Allen]

Just now, Baron said:

Answer my question then. What are they doing without Jose? They let him go to the Astros who we are supposedly sitting competing with. Great. Are they spending that money on free agents? We just got into a whole argument on how they can't do that now. So as it sits we're worse off than last year correct? I know I know you expect Jose to nose dive. 

The Astros let Correa go and won the WS. I love Jose, but he is at least 36, maybe a couple of years older. He is staring to have trouble keeping up with gas. It most likely isn’t going to get better. Vaughn is young and should get better. Many scouts think he will be a monster. It’s time to put him where he should be. I think the fault is, the Sox should take the money the saved letting Jose walk and fill another hole. But JR needs as big of profit as possible. To me it’s unfathomable to be cutting payroll I’m the middle of a contention window. It should be going up. They can talk all they want about the front office wanting to win and being ultra competitive, but that has been proven false. 

[Baron]

3 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I never said to give him more time. That was a different poster. You cited a bunch of Bill James nonsense about his outfield play and then used that to prove that he's a bad first baseman. I truly don't understand what's happening right now. 

"How many innings has he played at first base?"

So he doesn't have enough time in to judge him right? 

[Baron]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

The Astros let Correa go and won the WS. I love Jose, but he is at least 36, maybe a couple of years older. He is staring to have trouble keeping up with gas. It most likely isn’t going to get better. Vaughn is young and should get better. Many scouts think he will be a monster. It’s time to put him where he should be. I think the fault is, the Sox should take the money the saved letting Jose walk and fill another hole. But JR needs as big of profit as possible. To me it’s unfathomable to be cutting payroll I’m the middle of a contention window. It should be going up. They can talk all they want about the front office wanting to win and being ultra competitive, but that has been proven false. 

Well that's the problem. Fine you don't want to pay Jose Abreu the money he got from the Astros. Maybe he could have been cheaper as was mentioned if we reached an agreement early on. Who knows. 

Where is that money been going lately? Has anyone seen it used? From what Rick Hahn is saying this is it. We may or may not have a few trades coming we'll see. But there's no incoming free agents. 

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, Baron said:

"How many innings has he played at first base?"

So he doesn't have enough time in to judge him right? 

He's moving back to his natural position. He should be fine.

[Y2Jimmy0]

7 minutes ago, Baron said:

I never ever said outfield play. That's Bill James projections for him at first base. Why the hell would I compare his outfield play vs his first base play. 

I don't know. That's why I was confused. I didn't think he'd played that much first base so that's my fault. 

[southsider2k5]

 

[Baron]

3 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I don't know. That's why I was confused. I didn't think he'd played that much first base so that's my fault. 

More than you'd think but not a sample size of a Jose Abreu per year yet. What it seems like they are doing is the everyone bounce back plan minus Jose. I just fuckin hate it so much. 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

21 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

That's not what I mean. The roster assembled isn't good enough. They need to spend more money. It's the only way out. That is up to ownership though which has been my entire point. 

Being aggressive and creative is a way out but Hahn thinks those words are punchlines.  He's really the worst possible GM under Reinsdorf.  11 years and he still thinks he can sit back and outsmart everyone while he continues to fail.  I know people like to laugh at how Kenny did things but at least he understood what he had to do to win.