Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

A random "hot" playoff team seems to win 2 out of 5 world series.  Feel like the Sox are still holding onto that scratch off ticket. 

Also, if this is your taek, it is completely reasonable, but you should be clamoring for a complete teardown with any available funds going towards buying bad contracts paired with prospects.  Not sad that we didn't get Nimmo/Abreu/Rodon or whatever was the dream ceiling this offseason... because I still don't think that makes us the Astros. 

Which 2 are you thinking of as the examples of this?

2010, 2012, 2014 - Giants. Clearly can't be a random hot team, they won 3 times in 5 years.
2013, 2018 - Red Sox. 
2015 - Royals - were in the world series the year before, had one of the top systems in baseball before those 2 world series runs.
2016 - Cubs - won 103 games, made the playoffs 5 straight years.
2017, 2022 Astros - had a little help in 2017, but have made the ALCS like 6 straight years now.
2019 - Nationals - were a wild card team, but made the playoffs 5 times in 8 years and never finished worse than 2nd in their division in an 8 year stretch.
2020 - Dodgers. 
2021 - Braves. Have won the NL East 5 straight seasons following a 4 year rebuild.

I am struggling to see any one of these teams as sneaking into the playoffs as a wild card and winning as a "hot team". Every single one of them has had a record of consistency around when they were winning the title. The shortest competitive stretch of any of these champs was the Royals and they made 2 straight world series appearances. 

[Jack Parkman]

9 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

I didn't know that was your account.  I was responding more to the tweet than your general posts here. 

The idea that it doesn't matter because we aren't the Astros is flawed.  It does matter. You either do the best with your current situation (Trade Liam if the budget is tapped, fill one hole and then use the funds to fill the other), take your pot odds and hope to beat a better team in a short series OR you trade Cease and tear it all down.

The idea of just "acceptance" (Peralta and see what happens?) is the only really wrong answer (for me).

That's not my account, but I agree with that account. 

[GREEDY]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Which 2 are you thinking of as the examples of this?

2010, 2012, 2014 - Giants. Clearly can't be a random hot team, they won 3 times in 5 years.
2013, 2018 - Red Sox. 
2015 - Royals - were in the world series the year before, had one of the top systems in baseball before those 2 world series runs.
2016 - Cubs - won 103 games, made the playoffs 5 straight years.
2017, 2022 Astros - had a little help in 2017, but have made the ALCS like 6 straight years now.
2019 - Nationals - were a wild card team, but made the playoffs 5 times in 8 years and never finished worse than 2nd in their division in an 8 year stretch.
2020 - Dodgers. 
2021 - Braves. Have won the NL East 5 straight seasons following a 4 year rebuild.

I am struggling to see any one of these teams as sneaking into the playoffs as a wild card and winning as a "hot team". Every single one of them has had a record of consistency around when they were winning the title. The shortest competitive stretch of any of these champs was the Royals and they made 2 straight world series appearances. 

I have a job so I'm not going through it but "the random hot team" is when the best team or teams doesn't win.  Like "we might as well give up because we aren't the best team on paper".  For me that would have been LAD, NYY or HOU in 2022.  

Quickly glancing at your list that includes the Braves, Nats and Royals.  And obviously our 2005 White Sox. 

The post in question i was replying to was essentially saying "Just accept defeat, there is nothing we can do to be HOU or NYY".  I still stand by the fact that the "NYY/HOU" teams only win 3 out of 5.  

Edited December 16, 2022 by GREEDY

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Which 2 are you thinking of as the examples of this?

2010, 2012, 2014 - Giants. Clearly can't be a random hot team, they won 3 times in 5 years.
2013, 2018 - Red Sox. 
2015 - Royals - were in the world series the year before, had one of the top systems in baseball before those 2 world series runs.
2016 - Cubs - won 103 games, made the playoffs 5 straight years.
2017, 2022 Astros - had a little help in 2017, but have made the ALCS like 6 straight years now.
2019 - Nationals - were a wild card team, but made the playoffs 5 times in 8 years and never finished worse than 2nd in their division in an 8 year stretch.
2020 - Dodgers. 
2021 - Braves. Have won the NL East 5 straight seasons following a 4 year rebuild.

I am struggling to see any one of these teams as sneaking into the playoffs as a wild card and winning as a "hot team". Every single one of them has had a record of consistency around when they were winning the title. The shortest competitive stretch of any of these champs was the Royals and they made 2 straight world series appearances. 

Great post. Too many think you can just sneak in and win a title. 

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Which 2 are you thinking of as the examples of this?

2010, 2012, 2014 - Giants. Clearly can't be a random hot team, they won 3 times in 5 years.
2013, 2018 - Red Sox. 
2015 - Royals - were in the world series the year before, had one of the top systems in baseball before those 2 world series runs.
2016 - Cubs - won 103 games, made the playoffs 5 straight years.
2017, 2022 Astros - had a little help in 2017, but have made the ALCS like 6 straight years now.
2019 - Nationals - were a wild card team, but made the playoffs 5 times in 8 years and never finished worse than 2nd in their division in an 8 year stretch.
2020 - Dodgers. 
2021 - Braves. Have won the NL East 5 straight seasons following a 4 year rebuild.

I am struggling to see any one of these teams as sneaking into the playoffs as a wild card and winning as a "hot team". Every single one of them has had a record of consistency around when they were winning the title. The shortest competitive stretch of any of these champs was the Royals and they made 2 straight world series appearances. 

The Phillies last year snuck into the playoffs and went farther than anyone predicted. With the new playoff structure, all you have to do is get in and hit a hot streak at the right time. Sox are a flawed team and poorly run, but they have a chance to win in this weak division. Hope around this team is bleak, but it’s not unreasonable to think that they get some great bounce backs and we see more of 2021 than 2022 levels of production.

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

The Phillies last year snuck into the playoffs and went farther than anyone predicted. With the new playoff structure, all you have to do is get in and hit a hot streak at the right time. Sox are a flawed team and poorly run, but they have a chance to win in this weak division. Hope around this team is bleak, but it’s not unreasonable to think that they get some great bounce backs and we see more of 2021 than 2022 levels of production.

Lol. Balta just showed that is untrue. 

[flavum]

The balanced schedule will reveal some things about the AL Central next year. I’m rooting for 78-84 to win the division so MLB looks like the fools they are.

Edited December 16, 2022 by flavum

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Lol. Balta just showed that is untrue. 

2006 Cardinals? They won 83 games. Guess they didn’t get the memo that they weren’t supposed to win. Believe what you want though. If you want to deal with absolutes, that’s on you. Any team has a chance if the chips fall into place - especially with the new playoff structure. I’d rather be a flawed team trying to win than one that doesn’t.

[Chicago White Sox]

So CHGO Podcast did a trade prediction episode.  Here are the three trades they came up:

• Vinnie: Crochet, Vera, & Ramos/Popeye to TB for Lowe
• Herb: Hendriks to TOR for Jansen & Biggio
• Sean: Sheets, Lambert, & Simas to SFG for Yastrzemski

Lowe is definitely the guy I’d be targeting and that first trade is probably one I’d make.  Not a huge fan of #2 and not sure the third one moves the needle enough for us.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

So CHGO Podcast did a trade prediction episode.  Here are the three trades they came up:

• Vinnie: Crochet, Vera, & Ramos/Popeye to TB for Lowe
• Herb: Hendriks to TOR for Jansen & Biggio
• Sean: Sheets, Lambert, & Simas to SFG for Yastrzemski

Lowe is definitely the guy I’d be targeting and that first trade is probably one I’d make.  Not a huge fan of #2 and not sure the third one moves the needle enough for us.

Yas is interesting because if you adjust his numbers to Sox park his HR totals skyrocket. Not saying he’d be some revelation, but I’d rather have him than some vet on their way out like Calhoun or Peralta.

[Jack Parkman]

7 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

2006 Cardinals? They won 83 games. Guess they didn’t get the memo that they weren’t supposed to win. Believe what you want though. If you want to deal with absolutes, that’s on you. Any team has a chance if the chips fall into place - especially with the new playoff structure. I’d rather be a flawed team trying to win than one that doesn’t.

I'd rather tear it down and rebuild into a true juggernaut than be a flawed team trying to win. 

Do(build a team like the Astros) or do not(rebuild into a team like the Astros) There is no try(whatever the Sox are doing now) 

The Astros also aren't spending wildly like the Padres and Phillies. 

My view on sports is pretty binary. If you're not a true contender or a team on the rise you should be rebuilding. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[GREEDY]

11 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Lol. Balta just showed that is untrue. 

Balta got hot in the pants, so excited to pounce and "own" someone, barely read the post he was responding too (per usual) and assumed that "hot team" meant "lowly wild card team who snuck into the playoffs".  

While I'm not dying on the hill, I was responding to a post referring to all teams not NYY or HOU. 

 

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

2006 Cardinals? They won 83 games. Guess they didn’t get the memo that they weren’t supposed to win. Believe what you want though. If you want to deal with absolutes, that’s on you. Any team has a chance if the chips fall into place - especially with the new playoff structure. I’d rather be a flawed team trying to win than one that doesn’t.

Yes, 2006 Cardinals. Won 83 games.

2005 Cardinals won 100 games. Had a pretty epic NLCS against the Astros, pretty sure one baseball still hasn't come down. Same franchise also was in the 2004 World Series. But hey, totally luck there, they weren't a well built, regularly competitive team, right?

And that was before the real modern "Superteam" era began, to my eyes. That started with the successful rebuilds of the Royals, Cubs, and Astros.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

I'd rather tear it down and rebuild into a true juggernaut than be a flawed team trying to win. 

Do(build a team like the Astros) or do not(rebuild into a team like the Astros) There is no try(whatever the Sox are doing now) 

That’s not happening under this owner or FO, so it’s not a realistic option on the table. Either you take this Sox team as they are, stuck in their shitty ways, trying to compete or you end up with the A’s or Pirates and live in perpetuity. I’d rather stick it out with this group and hopefully Jerry is gone by time this core is completely gone.

[Jack Parkman]

 

 

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

That’s not happening under this owner or FO, so it’s not a realistic option on the table. Either you take this Sox team as they are, stuck in their shitty ways, trying to compete or you end up with the A’s or Pirates and live in perpetuity. I’d rather stick it out with this group and hopefully Jerry is gone by time this core is completely gone.

It's fairly obvious this ownership group is not interested in winning a WS.

I will admit, rebuilding isn't that simple for a large market team anymore wirh the new CBA as you can only guarantee as high as pick 7, and are not allowed to pick top 6 in consecutive seasons. 

Spending like the Mets/Padres/Phillies has never been as necessary for the Sox as it is now. 

Player development is as important as ever. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes, 2006 Cardinals. Won 83 games.

2005 Cardinals won 100 games. Had a pretty epic NLCS against the Astros, pretty sure one baseball still hasn't come down. Same franchise also was in the 2004 World Series. But hey, totally luck there, they weren't a well built, regularly competitive team, right?

And that was before the real modern "Superteam" era began, to my eyes. That started with the successful rebuilds of the Royals, Cubs, and Astros.

Yes, they were lucky in 2006 to make the playoffs. 83 wins is not good.

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Yes, they were lucky in 2006 to make the playoffs. 83 wins is not good.

Or to put it another way, this was a 100 win team that had a bunch of injuries during the regular season that knocked down their win total. A comparable Cardinals roster in 2005 had the best run differential in baseball. While they were lucky to make the playoffs, they were clearly a competitive roster when mostly assembled because they made game 7 of the NLCS or farther in the 2 previous years. 

The Cardinals record showed 83 wins. That same roster though was a 100 win roster, and they played like it once they got to the playoffs. It would have been just as reasonable for them to win the title in 2005 had they not gotten unlucky against the Astros. 

[Chicago White Sox]

28 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Yas is interesting because if you adjust his numbers to Sox park his HR totals skyrocket. Not saying he’d be some revelation, but I’d rather have him than some vet on their way out like Calhoun or Peralta.

Didn’t realize that, but agree with him over Calhoun or Peralta.

[Tnetennba]

51 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So CHGO Podcast did a trade prediction episode.  Here are the three trades they came up:

• Vinnie: Crochet, Vera, & Ramos/Popeye to TB for Lowe
• Herb: Hendriks to TOR for Jansen & Biggio
• Sean: Sheets, Lambert, & Simas to SFG for Yastrzemski

Lowe is definitely the guy I’d be targeting and that first trade is probably one I’d make.  Not a huge fan of #2 and not sure the third one moves the needle enough for us.

This is the one I fear as it feels like the most likely of the three.

[LittleHurtCG]

54 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'd rather tear it down and rebuild into a true juggernaut than be a flawed team trying to win. 

Do(build a team like the Astros) or do not(rebuild into a team like the Astros) There is no try(whatever the Sox are doing now) 

The Astros also aren't spending wildly like the Padres and Phillies. 

My view on sports is pretty binary. If you're not a true contender or a team on the rise you should be rebuilding. 

How in the world is this organization ever going to accomplish this? I thought that was the purpose of trading away Sale, Q, and Eaton and tanking for 3 plus seasons? 

What is the definition of insanity again? No more tanking and rebuilding. It will never work on the South Side as long as JR and Hahn/KW are around. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

24 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It's fairly obvious this ownership group is not interested in winning a WS.

I will admit, rebuilding isn't that simple for a large market team anymore wirh the new CBA as you can only guarantee as high as pick 7, and are not allowed to pick top 6 in consecutive seasons. 

Spending like the Mets/Padres/Phillies has never been as necessary for the Sox as it is now. 

Player development is as important as ever. 

It;s pretty obvious that this ownership group is not interested in winning a World Series the way we want them to, would be more accurate. JR just has his own outdated ideas on how to do it and cares more about the bottom line than spending like a madman or even spending on any top talent.

He allowed Hahn and Co. to rebuild , build a core of potentially very good players. However the players have responded with inconsistent results or not enough good years as a group to do any better than make the playoffs 2 years while letting the farm system rot away after too many picks fizzled.

Early on under Renteria, in the 1st playoff, the starting pitching wasn't there. After that it was TLR and a massive amount of devastating injuries to the core while Hahn was wasting money all over the place on supplementing the core. We lose Rodon after a spectacular year. We lost Cueto and Abreu this year and will finally let Vaughn play after 2 unproductive years in the OF.

Then when we finally get a chance to play a real power hitting LH OF people think it's a good idea to keep him down and gain the extra year with some faint hope that his last year will be a year the Sox contend ?

It sucks being in this position as fans and longing for these reclamation projects to be signed and for them to play well while saying, "well it's better than nothing" . Even if JR signs someone like Gallo these fans will claim victory because, "see I told you they would spend more"  as if that's worthy of a victory lap. The player still has to perform.

Hahn isn't good enough at his job to build a contender which means everyone around him he's relying on to help him make smart choices, scouts, statisticians, whoever also aren't good enough at their jobs to identify or develop major or minor league talent. JR pretty much decides he'll not only control the purse strings but also who the manager is and if he'll pay for top behind the scene talent.

 

[Jack Parkman]

24 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

How in the world is this organization ever going to accomplish this? I thought that was the purpose of trading away Sale, Q, and Eaton and tanking for 3 plus seasons? 

What is the definition of insanity again? No more tanking and rebuilding. It will never work on the South Side as long as JR and Hahn/KW are around. 

Well whatever they're doing isn't working either. 

You got a better option than rebuilding again? I don't. 

Spending money and going into the tax isn't going to happen, as much as we want it to. 

[Chicago White Sox]

Might be time for Chuck Garfein to retire.  On their emergency podcast to discuss Benintendi, he brought Andrus as a 2B option and Eric Hosmer as a guy to think about bringing in for veteran leadership.

[SoxBlanco]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Might be time for Chuck Garfein to retire.  On their emergency podcast to discuss Benintendi, he brought Andrus as a 2B option and Eric Hosmer as a guy to think about bringing in for veteran leadership.

What would Andrus cost? I know the common opinion is that there’s no way he repeats his Sox performance in 2023, which I don’t disagree with. But to me, he brought much more to the team than his numbers. It was refreshing to see a good baseball mind. He knew when to steal a base in a clutch moment, he knew when to sell out for a home run, and I just got the feeling that he was a very smart baseball player. I wish we had more guys like him on the team. 

Now, he’s obviously a bad fit with our current payroll, unless he can be signed for really cheap, but I would not mind Andrus on this team at all.