Your 2023 Off-Season Plan

[Jerksticks]

I’m thinking we’ll be surprised and see a total pivot to younger, plus defense and beefing up the SP.  Here are some high level moves to get there:
 

Eloy DH full time.  New stud LF.

Colas breaks camp as RF.  
 

Andrew Vaughn is traded to address LF.  Abreu resigned.  
 

Rodon gets huge deal from Sox.  
 

2B black hole filled from within, maybe Harrison.  
 

Catcher I don’t even know. 

[hi8is]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Based on the press conference, here is what I think happens this off-season:

• Pito not retained via free agency
• Vaughn traded for a controllable SP
• Sox go with a Sheets/Burger platoon at 1B
• Eloy shifts to DH full-time 
• Sox sign a LH hitting reclamation project OF 
• Colas called up by May 1st to be everyday RF
• Romy, Sosa, & Mendick compete for 2B job

Sox’s 26 man roster come May 1st:

• Lineup: 1B) Sheets* | 2B) Gonzalez | SS) Anderson | 3B) Moncada# | LF) LH FA* | CF) Robert | RF) Colas* | DH) Jimenez | CA) Grandal#
• Bench: IF) Mendick | IF) Burger | OF) Pollock | UT) Garcia# | BC) Zavala
• Rotation: 1) Cease | 2) Lynn | 3) Trade | 4) Kopech | 5) Giolito
• Bullpen: CL) Hendriks | SU) Bummer* | SU) Graveman | SU) Lopez | MR) Kelly | MR) Diekman* | MR) Lambert | LR) Martin

Pitching should be solid, but offense becomes an even bigger question mark than it already is.  Hahn spends all off-season talking about the improved lineup and OF defense, but ignores the fact we lost two of our best hitters.

No matter what way you slice the peach it’s gonna be bitter if Grandal, Moncada, Anderson, and Robert don’t come back strong. Add Gio, Bummer, Kopech, Lynn, and Kelly to that list while we’re at it.

Woe is me.

[hi8is]

3 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

I’m thinking we’ll be surprised and see a total pivot to younger, plus defense and beefing up the SP.  Here are some high level moves to get there:
 

Eloy DH full time.  New stud LF.

Colas breaks camp as RF.  
 

Andrew Vaughn is traded to address LF.  Abreu resigned.  
 

Rodon gets huge deal from Sox.  
 

2B black hole filled from within, maybe Harrison.  
 

Catcher I don’t even know. 

Sure sounds nice compared to the idea of Vaughn and Abreu both being gone with Sheets / Burger starting at first. I don’t see it. Haha…

But I don’t see us signing Rodon… at all.

2023 is going to suck I’m afraid… but let’s see what they do with the manager, coaching staff, and I sure as s%*# hope they beef their fucking analytics department up.

Wasn’t there a report of them investing into some driveline type dude but that fell apart or something?

[Jerksticks]

1 minute ago, hi8is said:

Sure sounds nice compared to the idea of Vaughn and Abreu both being gone with Sheets / Burger starting at first. I don’t see it. Haha…

But I don’t see us signing Rodon… at all.

2023 is going to suck I’m afraid… but let’s see what they do with the manager, coaching staff, and I sure as s%*# hope they beef their fucking analytics department up.

Wasn’t there a report of them investing into some driveline type dude but that fell apart or something?

Of course they aren’t signing Rodon.  I’ve had my hopes up for over 20 years that they’d sign a real free agent.  Something broke in me this year.  I actually know they won’t now for the first time.  
 

But….at some point, you’d think they’d see this 20-30M per year on 4 shitty 0-.5WAR vets could be spent on 1 single 5WAR player.  Surely this is the year!  Rodon!

[hi8is]

2 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Of course they aren’t signing Rodon.  I’ve had my hopes up for over 20 years that they’d sign a real free agent.  Something broke in me this year.  I actually know they won’t now for the first time.  
 

But….at some point, you’d think they’d see this 20-30M per year on 4 shitty 0-.5WAR vets could be spent on 1 single 5WAR player.  Surely this is the year!  Rodon!

Hopefully Robert will Robert and they’ll have a 6 WAR player for 11 million or whatever. Put your hopes in Colas too… because I’ll be colored shocked if they go into 2023 with a complete roster that magically sprouted depth.

[South Side Hit Men]

30 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Abreu looking on before Hahn won’t really comment on his status with the club next year.

This makes me very angry. Jose is one of the redeeming people in this organization. Rick Hahn most certainly is not.

[Jerksticks]

14 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Hopefully Robert will Robert and they’ll have a 6 WAR player for 11 million or whatever. Put your hopes in Colas too… because I’ll be colored shocked if they go into 2023 with a complete roster that magically sprouted depth.

Oh it’s Colas for sure right?  No extra year BS either.  It’s him day 1 of ST.  

 

I really think they surprisingly pivot from worst outfield the human eyes have ever seen to a really good unit.  12 WAR + ?

[hi8is]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

Oh it’s Colas for sure right?  No extra year BS either.  It’s him day 1 of ST.  

 

I really think they surprisingly pivot from worst outfield the human eyes have ever seen to a really good unit.  12 WAR + ?

I’ll be shocked if he makes the team as the starting right fielder out of ST… but they’ve surprised us before with such assignments… haven’t they? ?

[Chimpton]

4 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Of course they aren’t signing Rodon.  I’ve had my hopes up for over 20 years that they’d sign a real free agent.  Something broke in me this year.  I actually know they won’t now for the first time.  
 

But….at some point, you’d think they’d see this 20-30M per year on 4 shitty 0-.5WAR vets could be spent on 1 single 5WAR player.  Surely this is the year!  Rodon!

Even if they did sign Rodon to a big multi-year deal you just know he would get injured and be a bust, but if he goes elsewhere he would probably win the Cy Young and we will be moaning about it for years to come!

[Sarava]

Yikes. Seems our only hope next year is that Colas comes up and is a star right out of the gate. Otherwise, it'll mostly be hoping slumping players find their former selves.

But as long as Menechino is gone, there's some hope.

[Sarava]

9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I miss the optimistic CWS as well, but pretty sure the past 12 months killed that person.  And in all honestly, I can’t recall the last time we entered an off-season where it was this clear there will be little financial room to play with.  Usually there is a reason to dream that we’ll spend some, but defaulting to the trade market just months after being unable to acquire a single useful addition is a terrifying proposition.

I’m hopeful that guys like Yoan & Grandal will be better, but I don’t think that alone is enough to overcome CLE and losing Abreu is going to hurt a ton as well.  If Jerry isn’t willing to push up the payroll a bit, I think we will be hard pressed to make the playoffs next year.  Not trying to be a negative Nancy, but Hahn has really put this roster in a tough spot.

I doubt Vaughn gets moved this winter. And the reason is - I dont think he has a ton of value anymore. You may as well give him the reigns at first base and see what he can do.

I suspect the arrow is pointing at Colson Montgomery as the likely trade bait if they are trying to bring in any type of talent.

[Chicago White Sox]

25 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I doubt Vaughn gets moved this winter. And the reason is - I dont think he has a ton of value anymore. You may as well give him the reigns at first base and see what he can do.

I suspect the arrow is pointing at Colson Montgomery as the likely trade bait if they are trying to bring in any type of talent.

I think plenty of savvy organizations would love to get their hands on Vaughn, but the mismanagement of him has been atrocious and teams will probably want some sort of discount.  Rushing him to the majors, burning a year of control for like 20 PAs, and playing him out of position has certainly hurt his value.  Right now he’s a 1B/DH type with two negative fWAR seasons to his name who hasn’t proved he can handle an entire season of baseball.

As for Montgomery, I think he remains the sole untouchable (excluding Colas) unless it’s for a legit star like Ohtani.  More likely we see secondary guys like Ramos, Popeye, & Sosa moved to fill holes with B or C tier vets.

[Sarava]

36 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think plenty of savvy organizations would love to get their hands on Vaughn, but the mismanagement of him has been atrocious and teams will probably want some sort of discount.  Rushing him to the majors, burning a year of control for like 20 PAs, and playing him out of position has certainly hurt his value.  Right now he’s a 1B/DH type with two negative fWAR seasons to his name who hasn’t proved he can handle an entire season of baseball.

As for Montgomery, I think he remains the sole untouchable (excluding Colas) unless it’s for a legit star like Ohtani.  More likely we see secondary guys like Ramos, Popeye, & Sosa moved to fill holes with B or C tier vets.

If Ohtani is on the block, it would take something far bigger than Colson I suspect.

You may be right about the secondary prospects being the trade chips, but if that's the case, I doubt you're going to get much of any impact. Probably nothing more than a #4 starter, etc.

[Tnetennba]

8 hours ago, hi8is said:

Abreu looking on before Hahn won’t really comment on his status with the club next year.

They all look pretty stone-faced like they’d rather be anywhere else.  Or had to sit there against their will. 

[ChiSox59]

9 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

You may not want to admit this, but there's a big difference between having $25 million and $30 million to spend for this org. If Nimmo is $20 million for you, just following your outline - that's the difference between a $5 million and a $10 million pitcher to go with him. Andrew Heaney in your first post is probably well out of your price range. Cueto probably is, even. So yeah, at least to me, that makes a big difference.

And what you clearly don’t want to admit is just because the payroll was $197M this season doesn’t mean that is a hard and fast limit for 2023. The difference between $197M and $200M is micenuts to an MLB org.

Find somebody else to debate your meaningless line in the sand payroll limits all offseason with. It’s a worthless conversation. There is zero reason the Sox can’t spend $30M this offseason. 

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

They all look pretty stone-faced like they’d rather be anywhere else.  Or had to sit there against their will. 

Tony and Hahn both said they were all there by choice fwiw. 

[maloney.adam]

30 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

They all look pretty stone-faced like they’d rather be anywhere else.  Or had to sit there against their will. 

The look on Abreu’s face….

Edited October 4, 2022 by maloney.adam

[ChiSox59]

8 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Oh it’s Colas for sure right?  No extra year BS either.  It’s him day 1 of ST.  

 

I really think they surprisingly pivot from worst outfield the human eyes have ever seen to a really good unit.  12 WAR + ?

Starting Colas in the big leagues would be an awful decision. If that was the plan, he should have been called up 5 weeks ago. It’s like 15 games, wait. Pollock is a perfectly fine fill in for 3 weeks in April. 

[Balta1701]

17 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

And what you clearly don’t want to admit is just because the payroll was $197M this season doesn’t mean that is a hard and fast limit for 2023. The difference between $197M and $200M is micenuts to an MLB org.

Find somebody else to debate your meaningless line in the sand payroll limits all offseason with. It’s a worthless conversation. There is zero reason the Sox can’t spend $30M this offseason. 

And yet, we definitely heard that they didn’t want to add any more than Diekman at the trade deadline this year because of their financials. So you may not want to have this conversation and you can insist all you want that it will be easy for them to push beyond last years’ payroll, but it is definitely an open question.

[he gone.]

What would I do? Or what would I do with the limitations that have been placed upon Hahn (based on his misspending from previous years)

Scenario 1: What I would do is pretty simple. I'd understand the position we are in against the "championship window". Like the true championship window -- not the one where we are the Brewers or Cubs on a downslope and really didn't have a chance. That window is now and it quickly evaporates soon. Based on the salary coming off over the next two years I'd really double down now because otherwise it's never. So if it was me I am resigning both Abreu and Cueto. I'd go with 2 year deals, paid well, option out after 1 year for both. Those are simple, simple moves. I think that Cueto is very much likely to regress, but he's also likely to give you 175IP and keep you in games. I'd give Cueto 2yrs, $20mm. I'd give Abreu 2yrs, $32mm with incentives. I'd keep relatively the same exact roster. I'd trade Sheets, Burger, Kelly and Leury attaching the two former with the two latter to just get rid of salary. That clears $14mm this year, and $5mm the year after which pays for Abreu. One Abreu = better than the combo of all of those 4 on this team. Does it suck? Yes. Does it make Hahn look like an absolute moron? Yes. Is he? Well both those signings are such deadweight that you have to package up okay talent with it ... so yes. I sign Conforto to a 1 year, overly compensated deal to persuade him from not signing in the market place for a multi year deal. And that's it. New manager, new purpose and pray that Moncada does better with an "authoritarian" as Hendriks called for. You hope that Yaz finds his knees and the lack of shifts help him. You hope that Anderson has put his home life behind him and figured out peace of mind. You give your trust to Romy/Sosa. You hope that Colas is the real deal as a 4OF and that he'll be able to play well when someone is injured. You put Vaughn and Eloy in LF rotating as fulltime DH and LF. 

 

Scenario 2: Fantasy baseball/video game. Throw caution to the wind and go for it all this year with the future be damned. Trade AV and either Gio or Kopech for Ohtani. (not sure if that actually gets it done). Plug him into RF. Run it back with OF of Ohtani, Robert, Eloy. repeat the scenario above of attaching guys like Sheets/Burger to Kelly and Leury and resign Abreu to a one year deal. You're paying Ohtani $30mm, but not Giolito his $10mm + not signing Cueto at $10mm = increasing payroll $10mm for the year. You now just traded away controllable years of AV for one year of Ohtani. Giolito was unlikely to resign here anyways. Rotation of Cease, Ohtani, Lynn, Kopech and Martin (go bargain bin shopping for a $5mm VV type arm and hope for the best as your 6th). 

 

Scenario 3: Heady moves. Rays. Indians. Brewers type moves. Don't resign Abreu. Trade Eloy types for Podsednik types. etc. While i do think this is the most likely ... I actually read Hahns comments about offense and power and kind of doubt that Eloy is the one to go. 

 

Whatever route they go, if they don't spend, I will not spend on season tickets. I'll tell my rep that the trade market may be more fruitful and that i'm not just going to throw money at the problem. 

 

Honestly though, it's going to be a chicken or the egg scenario on these tickets which although not as big of a piece of the pie as previous for franchises ... is still significant. The White Sox lost their fan base this year - I don't know one person who has tickets who is resigning ... and the only way i think they will is if they do something big. Problem is I don't see the Sox being the type of team to do something big unless they have a commitment from fans. But alas this is a crap franchise and we all saw that as soon as they got a bit better how they stopped treating the fans as well, jacked up prices, didn't do events, didn't listen to us, etc. and then on top of that s%*# pie they played terrible, took zero accountability, and sat with their thumbs up their asses all season not addressing the issues. 

 

 

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

They all look pretty stone-faced like they’d rather be anywhere else.  Or had to sit there against their will. 

I believe every player there legitimately supported Tony, but were disgusted after Tony was done speaking, and they had to look at and listen to the complete bullshit and arrogance of Rick Hahn, knowing full well he is a complete fraud and charlatan.

Every single point of what went wrong reverted to the Jerry/Kenny/Rick collective. Compare and contrast to the personal responsibility Tony owned in his written and oral statements, and his answers to questions.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, he gone. said:

I'd trade Sheets, Burger, Kelly and Leury attaching the two former with the two latter to just get rid of salary. That clears $14mm this year, and $5mm the year after which pays for Abreu. 

I get where you're going with the concept and I don't think it's that outrageous, but I hit a wall right here. I don't think anyone takes on $10 million for Leury or $9 million for Kelly in order to take on Gavin Sheets or Jake Burger. Sheets had plenty of opportunities this year and has an OPS in the low .700s, that's not good enough for a DH/1b. Burger hit better, but has an injury history and was awful at 3b when given a chance there. As a 1b/DH, mid-.700s OPS is tolerable but not great.

I wouldn't take Leury or Kelly on in order to get either of those guys if I was the GM of another team, unless you were taking like half their salaries back in bad money from my roster as well. I can get an .800-ish OPS and average defense at 1b from CJ Cron for $7.5 million/year, why are either of those guys worth more?

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

And yet, we definitely heard that they didn’t want to add any more than Diekman at the trade deadline this year because of their financials. So you may not want to have this conversation and you can insist all you want that it will be easy for them to push beyond last years’ payroll, but it is definitely an open question.

Did they say it was because of financials?  Because I don't remember seeing that.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Did they say it was because of financials?  Because I don't remember seeing that.

Rick at the deadline said they wanted to add but couldn't because of what other teams were asking for is what I recall. Nothing about financials.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Bob Sacamano

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Bob Sacamano said:

Rick at the deadline said they wanted to add but couldn't because of what other teams were asking for is what I recall. Nothing about financials.

That's what I remembered.  I am not saying it didn't happen, but I sure don't remember seeing it.