Just say no to Carlos "I'm the Product Here" Correa

[JoeC]

3 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Adam Dunn and Adam LaRoche both failed miserably here, so therefore the Sox can never again sign a player from the NL.  Except how many declining AL players have the Sox acquired that have also failed miserably?  The Sox lack of scouting acumen and their propensity to target less expensive aging and or past their prime players might just have more to do with it than some nebulous NL boogeyman. 

Clearly there's no way to know for sure.

Better stick to signing aging past-their-prime AL players just to be sure.

[JoeC]

Also, at what point does a player cease to become an NL player and become an AL player?

If the player is laundered through an intermediary AL team, does that make him an AL player? If so, how long must the player be on that team?

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Clearly there's no way to know for sure.

Better stick to signing aging past-their-prime AL players just to be sure.

Darin Erstad says hello.

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Also, at what point does a player cease to become an NL player and become an AL player?

If the player is laundered through an intermediary AL team, does that make him an AL player? If so, how long must the player be on that team?

Good question.  Thome the perfect example.

[JoeC]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Darin Erstad says hello.

Grindiness is an immutable quality. No such thing as "over-the-hill."

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Good question.  Thome the perfect example.

He came directly from the NL though, but that's another good poiint.

At what point does an AL player become an NL player?

[zisk]

On 9/30/2022 at 9:55 AM, A-Train to 35th said:

I'm in the minority, but I think TA should be traded.  I've had just about enough of his change the game attitude towards baseball.  He should be the one changing his game to become a better defensive SS.  

He might try taking a walk once in a while too.

[kitekrazy]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Good question.  Thome the perfect example.

Big difference  is HOF player.

[kitekrazy]

3 hours ago, JoeC said:

Grindiness is an immutable quality. No such thing as "over-the-hill."

He came directly from the NL though, but that's another good poiint.

At what point does an AL player become an NL player?

 A lot has to do with facing familiar pitchers, outfielders playing in different parks, catchers having to learn a new staff and hitters. 

 History shows those players don't work out well for the Sox at least a decade.   Vegas uses history in determining the odds. Sox scouts think everything works in a vacuum.   I guess they can continue down that road that has failed for them much like trying to develop their own catchers.  Stats sheets and reality are often opposite for this team.  Fans want to believe some veteran guy from the NL is somehow gonna work out but most often they don't.  The results are rarely immediate for the Sox.   

 

[JoeC]

48 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

 A lot has to do with facing familiar pitchers, outfielders playing in different parks, catchers having to learn a new staff and hitters. 

 History shows those players don't work out well for the Sox at least a decade.   Vegas uses history in determining the odds. Sox scouts think everything works in a vacuum.   I guess they can continue down that road that has failed for them much like trying to develop their own catchers.  Stats sheets and reality are often opposite for this team.  Fans want to believe some veteran guy from the NL is somehow gonna work out but most often they don't.  The results are rarely immediate for the Sox.   

 

Again, I see that post and see it as a Sox issue, not an AL-NL issue
It’s like getting horrible diarrhea from eating spoiled food and blaming the horrible experience on the toilet.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, kitekrazy said:

 A lot has to do with facing familiar pitchers, outfielders playing in different parks, catchers having to learn a new staff and hitters. 

 History shows those players don't work out well for the Sox at least a decade.   Vegas uses history in determining the odds. Sox scouts think everything works in a vacuum.   I guess they can continue down that road that has failed for them much like trying to develop their own catchers.  Stats sheets and reality are often opposite for this team.  Fans want to believe some veteran guy from the NL is somehow gonna work out but most often they don't.  The results are rarely immediate for the Sox.   

 

Narvaez was from an NL organization if I recall...McCann obviously the Central.

[Kyyle23]

15 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

 A lot has to do with facing familiar pitchers, outfielders playing in different parks, catchers having to learn a new staff and hitters. 

 History shows those players don't work out well for the Sox at least a decade.   Vegas uses history in determining the odds. Sox scouts think everything works in a vacuum.   I guess they can continue down that road that has failed for them much like trying to develop their own catchers.  Stats sheets and reality are often opposite for this team.  Fans want to believe some veteran guy from the NL is somehow gonna work out but most often they don't.  The results are rarely immediate for the Sox.   

 

With the frequency of inter league now this simply isn’t true.  Players all over the league succeed wherever they go, no team would abide by a “no NL” rule because that is hilariously dumb.  The sox scouting and choices of players is the issue 

[kitekrazy]

7 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

With the frequency of inter league now this simply isn’t true.  Players all over the league succeed wherever they go, no team would abide by a “no NL” rule because that is hilariously dumb.  The sox scouting and choices of players is the issue 

 Frequency  is not what a player would consider being frequent.  Not even to make a difference.  Always a hindsight reaction when Sox sign an NL player.  I'll stick to my guns the Sox have bad luck with NL veterans.   History seems to side with me.  We are not talking about any other organization.  Inter league play, Sox scouting, works for other teams, are always used in debate.  I look at the history in the last 5 years (at least).  It doesn't work for the Sox and it is like waiting for the Great Pumpkin.

  It's my theory and so far it hasn't persuaded me any other way since the result is often the same even with the listed excuses.  There is no logic behind it other than the results.  Somehow people just can't get around it. 

There's really nothing more to talk about.   I'll wait till I'm proven wrong.

Edited October 2, 2022 by kitekrazy

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, kitekrazy said:

 Frequency  is not what a player would consider being frequent.  Not even to make a difference.  Always a hindsight reaction when Sox sign an NL player.  I'll stick to my guns the Sox have bad luck with NL veterans.  

[Quin]

23 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Narvaez was from an NL organization if I recall...McCann obviously the Central.

Are we talking about Omar Narvaez, who the White Sox got in the Rule 5 draft from the Rays and then developed for two years into an MLB hitter?

[kitekrazy]

23 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Narvaez was from an NL organization if I recall...McCann obviously the Central.

 I think it be different with younger players than veterans. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by kitekrazy

[caulfield12]

27 minutes ago, Quin said:

Are we talking about Omar Narvaez, who the White Sox got in the Rule 5 draft from the Rays and then developed for two years into an MLB hitter?

I got him confused with Adrian Nieto, Cuban from Nationals' system.

And I suppose that's a different category when they aren't established big leaguers.

Carlos Quentin and Eaton remain the two best young NL players the Sox have brought over under the KW/Hahn regime.

[JoeC]

7 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Easy to bring up the s molecule sample size.  I think it be different with younger players than veterans.  3 guys on the team fans despise and you guessed it.........former NL veterans.

By your same logic though, we should also avoid AL guys.

[kitekrazy]

1 minute ago, JoeC said:

By your same logic though, we should also avoid AL guys.

  Need stud scouts and go with homegrown talent and avoid salary dumps from the real large market teams.

[JoeC]

1 minute ago, kitekrazy said:

  Need stud scouts and go with homegrown talent and avoid salary dumps from the real large market teams.

That will fix one league’s worth of players and not the other…?

[kitekrazy]

1 minute ago, JoeC said:

That will fix one league’s worth of players and not the other…?

 You previous post made no sense.  I'm done debating. Let me know when a veteran NL signing will work for the Sox and only the Sox. 

[Quin]

27 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

I got him confused with Adrian Nieto, Cuban from Nationals' system.

And I suppose that's a different category when they aren't established big leaguers.

Carlos Quentin and Eaton remain the two best young NL players the Sox have brought over under the KW/Hahn regime.

Bro did you forget Eloy Jimenez and Dylan Cease exist? A Silver Slugger and a Cy Young candidate.

Ans I know Gio had a bad 2022 but his 2020 and 2021 deserve mention, dear lord.

[Quin]

Hell, you're giving such a wide span of time: Garland, Podsednik and Uribe are also in there off the top of my head.

 

[JoeC]

49 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

 You previous post made no sense.  I'm done debating. Let me know when a veteran NL signing will work for the Sox and only the Sox. 

Which post made no sense?
Perhaps I can clarify for you.

[nitetrain8601]

Honestly, I would move TA to 2B, but I don't know if Correa is the one to convince me. They do need to get some vocal leaders for that clubhouse. Everyone is just so non-chalant, lead by example types. On a baseball roster, you need vocal leaders. 

Correa simply isn't as good as people have rated him. Trea is an injury waiting to happen. ?

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Honestly, I would move TA to 2B, but I don't know if Correa is the one to convince me. They do need to get some vocal leaders for that clubhouse. Everyone is just so non-chalant, lead by example types. On a baseball roster, you need vocal leaders. 

Correa simply isn't as good as people have rated him. Trea is an injury waiting to happen. ?

Dansby Swanson is pretty inconsistent, but closer to that second tier price range.

(We would probably get Brandon Crawford two years too late.)

And X.Bogaerts will cost an arm and a leg.