The case for Katz?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

15 hours ago, Texsox said:

Using the same argument and logic. What do you think @Look at Ray Ray Run

I would argue we haven't seen significant offensive growth from any of the young guys under menechino. 

Sheets had to go down to the minors to "find his way." 

Menechino and Katz aren't at all similar imo. Sox have had a top tier staff two years in a row under katz.

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I would argue we haven't seen significant offensive growth from any of the young guys under menechino. 

Sheets had to go down to the minors to "find his way." 

Menechino and Katz aren't at all similar imo. Sox have had a top tier staff two years in a row under katz.

I don’t know what standard you’re using but I definitely would not call the 2022 White Sox pitching staff “top tier”. 16th best ERA, slightly higher WAR thanks to park adjustment and heavier weighting for strikeouts.

[caulfield12]

54 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don’t know what standard you’re using but I definitely would not call the 2022 White Sox pitching staff “top tier”. 16th best ERA, slightly higher WAR thanks to park adjustment and heavier weighting for strikeouts.

Looks a lot different with Rodon still around and Lynn’s normal season…I think he was the AL and maybe MLB leader in fWAR from 2018/19-2021.  Whichever year he was great for Texas starting the string.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I don’t know what standard you’re using but I definitely would not call the 2022 White Sox pitching staff “top tier”. 16th best ERA, slightly higher WAR thanks to park adjustment and heavier weighting for strikeouts.

The standard I'm using should have said over the past two years.

The past two years they're 2nd in baseball in pitching WAR.

They were 10th in fWAR this year.  10th in FIP. Its not Katz fault the sox had an abysmal defense behind his pitchers. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The standard I'm using should have said over the past two years.

The past two years they're 2nd in baseball in pitching WAR.

They were 10th in fWAR this year.  10th in FIP. Its not Katz fault the sox had an abysmal defense behind his pitchers. 

10th in WAR/FIP isn't top tier by my standards, and that's supposed to explicitly exclude defense. 

[Harry Chappas]

When looking at team totals for this year you have to look at Keuchel blowing things up for a while, never knowing what Kopech or if Kopech was available and a pen that had 50% availability most days.

I'm not sure what LaRussa's role was v Katz but I will say this.  Cairo was MIA until he was put in charge and then he was a refreshing change. 

We do not know what Katz's role was and as such maybe he can be better with a normal manager.

If he recommended Gio putting on extra weight, that is a blow to his resume.  

[Balta1701]

Just now, Harry Chappas said:

When looking at team totals for this year you have to look at Keuchel blowing things up for a while, never knowing what Kopech or if Kopech was available and a pen that had 50% availability most days.

I'm not sure what LaRussa's role was v Katz but I will say this.  Cairo was MIA until he was put in charge and then he was a refreshing change. 

We do not know what Katz's role was and as such maybe he can be better with a normal manager.

If he recommended Gio putting on extra weight, that is a blow to his resume.  

Coming into the year, "Dallas Keuchel being an issue" and "Michael Kopech might only be able to give 130 innings" were both things that should have been totally unsurprising. Joe Kelly being hurt to start the year can't exactly have been surprising - he was hurt when they signed him! Did these seriously catch Ethan Katz off guard? 

"Hey Ethan, we need someone to get ready to come into a game on April 15.
Oh I'll go get Kelly up. 
Dude, Kelly hasn't pitched yet this year he's rehabbing a bicep injury.
What? When did this happen?
2021."

[Texsox]

On 10/2/2022 at 10:35 AM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah, firing Katz makes no sense.

Not even Katz can fix all the broken s%*# Hahn throws at him in the pen. If anything they should have given him a chance to improve some young guys out there, instead of weighing him down with aging vets who are overrated hacks like Kelly.

 

10 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I would argue we haven't seen significant offensive growth from any of the young guys under menechino. 

Sheets had to go down to the minors to "find his way." 

Menechino and Katz aren't at all similar imo. Sox have had a top tier staff two years in a row under katz.

A top tier staff filled with broken s%*#, aging vets, and overrated hacks. Seems like Menechino is dealing with the same issues only worse. 

 

 

[South Side Hit Men]

The pitching staff will be highly motivated next season, facing either FA (Lynn and Lucas) or Arbitration (Cease and Kopech). Ditto most of the key current core (Robert and Vaughn the only two controlled beyond 2024). Players universally seem to step up under these circumstances, some more than others (Aaron Judge).

If Katz stays under the next manager, I expect even better results than the Top 10 from this season for the four starters mentioned above. Relievers are always a crapshoot, and it sucks half the bullpen are mid 30s and expensive, but you can still find quality turnaround relievers for $1M-$3M, and also decent to solid starters like Cueto. Just need to be patient, work with Katz to see who is out there the Sox can find and fix.