Kopech has knee surgery - expected to be ready for ST

[maxjusttyped]

 

[chw42]

And they let him pitch with this injury for at least 3 starts...

[maxjusttyped]

2 minutes ago, chw42 said:

And they let him pitch with this injury for at least 3 starts...

probably a lot longer than that, right? We first heard about him dealing with knee issues, it being uncertain whether he would start etc going back to June.

[chw42]

5 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

probably a lot longer than that, right? We first heard about him dealing with knee issues, it being uncertain whether he would start etc going back to June.

Wasn't the initial injury on his left knee? 

Edit: he injured the right knee initially and also injured the left knee in late August against the Royals. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by chw42

[JoeC]

16 minutes ago, chw42 said:

And they let him pitch with this injury for at least 3 starts...

I would think that an injury like this is, for a pitcher, pitching while hurt vs. pitching while injured.

Playing while hurt = painful, but can be overcome. See: Abreu, Jose.

Playing while injured: see: Robert, Luis.

Probably one of those "if you can play through it it won't get too much worse - just will be more painful" situations... and then you get the surgery as soon as you're sure your season is done anyways.

[Chick Mercedes]

1 hour ago, chw42 said:

And they let him pitch with this injury for at least 3 starts...

Probably not getting worse. You can play on it, have it removed,  and play shortly after, or have it repaired and be out for awhile. Repaired by the way takes the most time, with the most upside as far as full athletic potential. I think the decisions become more dicey in the people that need to run during games. Pitrchers, not so much

[Buehrle>Wood]

1 hour ago, chw42 said:

And they let him pitch with this injury for at least 3 starts...

He has to pitch at some point

[Tony]

39 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

He has to pitch at some point

This is a joke, right? 

[Buehrle>Wood]

23 minutes ago, Tony said:

This is a joke, right? 

Of course not. He has to give value to the Sox at some point and if that includes playing through injuries that he can play through, then do it. Of course it didn't matter in the end since the rest of the team is garbage.

[fathom]

17 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Of course not. He has to give value to the Sox at some point and if that includes playing through injuries that he can play through, then do it. Of course it didn't matter in the end since the rest of the team is garbage.

Is it really “being able to play through it” if it impacts his velocity so much 

[South Side Hit Men]

Perhaps our resident Trainer can weigh in on this.

The linked article addresses three treatment options for a torn meniscus - 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lucasseehafer/2020/02/14/cleveland-starting-pitcher-mike-clevinger-to-have-surgery-on-injured-meniscus/amp/

Quote

There are three treatment options for a torn meniscus: conservative care (i.e. rehabilitation), meniscal repair, and partial meniscectomy, and all three have their positives and negatives.

Seems like the Sox went a fourth route, the same they choose with Robert and likely others - continue to run the injured player out there and waive your hands in the air like you just don’t care.

Kopech didn’t miss a start, let alone rest for 4-6 weeks.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=kopecmi01&t=p&year=2022

[Tony]

43 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Of course not. He has to give value to the Sox at some point and if that includes playing through injuries that he can play through, then do it. Of course it didn't matter in the end since the rest of the team is garbage.

So Michael Kopech has a meniscus tear and in your eyes is expected to "pitch through it" because he has had other injuries before? I assume you have this same take on Robert, who saw literally having to swing with 1 hand and put up a stunning .087 OPS in the month of September before finally being shut down once the coffin was finally placed in this team. 

Maybe it's possible players want to push through most injuries (as we saw with Kopech taking the mound on August 22nd and was clearly hurt, but tried his best for the team) but the coaching staff and trainers need to actually do their jobs and you know, "manage" the athletes on the field. 

[Buehrle>Wood]

19 minutes ago, Tony said:

So Michael Kopech has a meniscus tear and in your eyes is expected to "pitch through it" because he has had other injuries before? I assume you have this same take on Robert, who saw literally having to swing with 1 hand and put up a stunning .087 OPS in the month of September before finally being shut down once the coffin was finally placed in this team. 

Maybe it's possible players want to push through most injuries (as we saw with Kopech taking the mound on August 22nd and was clearly hurt, but tried his best for the team) but the coaching staff and trainers need to actually do their jobs and you know, "manage" the athletes on the field. 

Yep he first complained about his knee in June. Can't afford another missed season from him given he's missed over 2. If he was better than the next options (and he was) and going to miss the season on something he can pitch with, then the right call was to have to pitch through it. The training staff is seemingly terrible at preventing injuries, but the injury here did occur. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Buehrle>Wood

[Tony]

1 hour ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Yep he first complained about his knee in June. Can't afford another missed season from him given he's missed over 2. If he was better than the next options (and he was) and going to miss the season on something he can pitch with, then the right call was to have to pitch through it. The training staff is seemingly terrible at preventing injuries, but the injury here did occur. 

I’d say I’m incredibly happy you have absolutely no control over any roster decision or player health, but it sounds like you have the same view as a lot of the current coaching staff on the Sox, and we all saw how well that went. 
 

You’re also basing individual player health decisions on lack of depth that Michael Kopech or any other player has 0 to do with, which always seems like a super decision. 

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Perhaps our resident Trainer can weigh in on this.

The linked article addresses three treatment options for a torn meniscus - 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lucasseehafer/2020/02/14/cleveland-starting-pitcher-mike-clevinger-to-have-surgery-on-injured-meniscus/amp/

Seems like the Sox went a fourth route, the same they choose with Robert and likely others - continue to run the injured player out there and waive your hands in the air like you just don’t care.

Kopech didn’t miss a start, let alone rest for 4-6 weeks.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=kopecmi01&t=p&year=2022

Maybe I'm mistaken but didn't Hahn just a few days ago say they were going to repair a "cyst" behind the knee? I'm no doctor but I know a cyst isn't a meniscus tear. 

[Chimpton]

4 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Of course not. He has to give value to the Sox at some point and if that includes playing through injuries that he can play through, then do it. Of course it didn't matter in the end since the rest of the team is garbage.

There is a big difference between playing through niggles and playing on while injured when rest or an operation is best. This season time and again the medical department has got it wrong and not put players on the IL who were quite plainly too injured to contribute at anywhere near their level

[Buehrle>Wood]

2 hours ago, Tony said:

I’d say I’m incredibly happy you have absolutely no control over any roster decision or player health, but it sounds like you have the same view as a lot of the current coaching staff on the Sox, and we all saw how well that went. 
 

You’re also basing individual player health decisions on lack of depth that Michael Kopech or any other player has 0 to do with, which always seems like a super decision. 

He got hurt on June 12th. So you wanted him out for the year then. He'd be entering his 6th MLB season for you never having thrown more than 70 innings as some literal who takes over during a playoff push (that never happens anyways). Thats awful and does more harm than good at this point. 

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Maybe I'm mistaken but didn't Hahn just a few days ago say they were going to repair a "cyst" behind the knee? I'm no doctor but I know a cyst isn't a meniscus tear. 

You don’t need to be a doctor to be able to read James Fegan’s tweet my comments were based on.

3 hours ago, Tony said:

I’d say I’m incredibly happy you have absolutely no control over any roster decision or player health, but it sounds like you have the same view as a lot of the current coaching staff on the Sox, and we all saw how well that went. 
 

You’re also basing individual player health decisions on lack of depth that Michael Kopech or any other player has 0 to do with, which always seems like a super decision. 

Sadly, it appears Hahn and Tony do have control over players availability and have the same mindset.

8 hours ago, maxjusttyped said:

 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by South Side Hit Men

[Tony]

6 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

He got hurt on June 12th. So you wanted him out for the year then. He'd be entering his 6th MLB season for you never having thrown more than 70 innings as some literal who takes over during a playoff push (that never happens anyways). Thats awful and does more harm than good at this point. 

I can’t believe this is a real discussion, but if he was injured, with the heightened potential of doing more damage, then I would absolutely want him on the IL until he’s healthy. What a WILD concept. 

This from MLB Trade Rumors:

His right knee was the issue this time, and Kopech made to make an early exit from a start in June due to soreness in that same knee, with Kopech saying that he felt a small twinge or popping sensation.  However, Kopech was on the mound seven days later, and while tests at the time didn’t reveal any structural problems, it is possible the tear developed as Kopech continued to pitch over the rest of the season.
 

Now Kopech has to go through surgery and may alter his off-season training because of rehab and recovery. He literally wasn’t able to command the ball in August, yet was allowed to take the mound anyway because you and LaRussa hold the same views on player health, apparently. Not a side I’d want to be on, but good luck with that. 

[Tnetennba]

Fire the hacks in the training staff already.  Everyone involved in either missing a torn meniscus or letting him pitch with a torn meniscus should be shown the door.  Between Kopech & Robert we have some gross negligence and or medical malpractice on our hands.  As ridiculous as it is enraging. 

[Buehrle>Wood]

20 minutes ago, Tony said:

I can’t believe this is a real discussion, but if he was injured, with the heightened potential of doing more damage, then I would absolutely want him on the IL until he’s healthy. What a WILD concept. 

This from MLB Trade Rumors:

, and Kopech made to make an early exit from a start in June due to soreness in that same knee, with Kopech saying that he felt a small twinge or popping sensation.  However, Kopech was on the mound seven days later, and while tests at the time didn’t reveal any structural problems, it is possible the tear developed as Kopech continued to pitch over the rest of the season.
 

Now Kopech has to go through surgery and may alter his off-season training because of rehab and recovery. He literally wasn’t able to command the ball in August, yet was allowed to take the mound anyway because you and LaRussa hold the same views on player health, apparently. Not a side I’d want to be on, but good luck with that. 

You can play with a torn meniscus and do so without any real risk of long-term damage. We know that because of the various players that have played with torn meniscuses at various clubs all over MLB. It was time for Kopech to get innings on his arm. Pretty straightforward, albeit not ideal. Also, your link and assertation are seemingly incorrect. The August injury was a different injury. I agree it was likely time to shut him down then. But having him miss the season on June 12th when he tore his meniscus is not it.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Buehrle>Wood

[SpringfieldFan]

MIchael Kopech
A man barely alive.
Gentlemen, we can rebuild him.
We have the technology...

[Highland]

3 hours ago, SpringfieldFan said:

MIchael Kopech
A man barely alive.
Gentlemen, we can rebuild him.
We have the technology...

Kopech came up from the minors in August 2018. Since then, he has logged in a little of 200 innings. I don't know how much the Sox can count on him in 2023. I have never agreed with how his development has been handled.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Highland said:

Kopech came up from the minors in August 2018. Since then, he has logged in a little of 200 innings. I don't know how much the Sox can count on him in 2023. I have never agreed with how his development has been handled.

He threw 120 innings this year. On paper, you would like to pencil him in for 160-ish next year as a reasonable number.

But yeah, deep down, you need to know who your 6th, 7th, and 8th options are in your rotation because very solid chance that they're needed. That almost goes for any team, but Kopech and others highlight that issue for the White Sox. 

[The Kids Can Play]

On 10/2/2022 at 9:48 AM, Tnetennba said:

Fire the hacks in the training staff already.  Everyone involved in either missing a torn meniscus or letting him pitch with a torn meniscus should be shown the door.  Between Kopech & Robert we have some gross negligence and or medical malpractice on our hands.  As ridiculous as it is enraging. 

Another disgusting and pathetic reason Hahn and the entire front office need to be fired. Our medical, training and anything else related to the health of our players, is a serious gross negligent group. These medical and training people are buffoons and they are hindering this organization of ever being a healthy enough team to contend for a world series title...regardless of whether we ever assemble a roster of elite talent. 

Do you think Andrew Freidman of the Dodgers as one example, with his amazing roster would allow such inept medical doctors and trainers like our Sox employ, to handle his players?

Jesus F*#king Christ Jerry. Wake up and do something about this horrific front office and all the slugs it employs.

It's one thing if you don't give a s%*# about your fans, but my god, at least give a s%*# about the health of your players...that you pay all those millions to.