White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread

[maloney.adam]

 

[The Kids Can Play]

31 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

It’s really hard to gauge as players are the ones that perform or not. Also dumb luck over the course of 162 games.

I agree the players are suppose to perform and paid millions for it...hence why they received their original huge salary in the first place. I also agree with you, there is going to be some bad luck at times. However, I just think of how many games these last two years our manager and his coaches cost us, with pulling a starting pitcher too soon or too late, bringing in the wrong reliever, not pulling that wrong reliever soon enough, horrible lineups, and tons of other constant managerial and coaching blunders made. 

I know one thing for sure...a better manager like a Francona would have demanded and worked on the defensive and offensive fundamentals way more than LaRussa and his coaches did these past two years.

Plus we have seen with other teams how a certain coach can work with a player and get major improvements from them... like Kyle Schwarber to name just one of many players I could cite.

[The Kids Can Play]

55 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

 

Shocking! Another GM out there knowing they need a great manager and deciding to out hustle the competition or in this case Rick Hahn. Hmmm. maybe that GM understands the notion "You snooze you lose!!!"

Edited October 20, 2022 by The Kids Can Play

[Boopa1219]

22 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Our typical dysfunctional and loser FO.

It bothers me our FO said some of the Sox coaches were told they were free to reach out to other teams. Was the FO implying some of the coaches were in fact allowed to stay? If that is the case, then that's completely insane. All of them should have been terminated and told to start looking. A new manager should have the right to bring his own people in.

If the Sox want to effectively turn around this trainwreck of a team, then they don't need any current coaches that are tied to Renteria and LaRussa. Not one of these current coaches are so amazing that they can't be replaced with someone probably immensely better. The new manager doesn't need to ever hear, "well this is how we used to do it!"

 

Ethan Katz and the bullpen coach, are the only guys who should be allowed to stay. And with that being said, pitching coach and hitting coach hires have been more of a FO decision but this is encouraging, it looks like coaches like Boston and McEwing are gone

[The Kids Can Play]

2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Ozzie Guillen will not be the next manager of the White Sox.  Full stop.  

YES and not only a FULL STOP, we don't need anymore posters worrying about Ozzie being hired or wanting Ozzie hired. Reinsdorf has stated publicly and his comments documented on SoxTalk before, that per Jerry....Ozzie burned his bridges with the Sox and will never be brought back. 

[maloney.adam]

10 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Shocking! Another GM out there knowing they need a great manager and deciding to out hustle the competition or in this case Rick Hahn. Hmmm. maybe that GM understand the notion "You snooze you lose!!!"

Hey atleast they have a seat at the table. That’s all that matters to them. Lol

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, maloney.adam said:

Hey atleast they have a seat at the table. That’s all that matters to them. Lol

Hahn's over at the kid's table.

[maloney.adam]

1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Hahn's over at the kid's table.

With JR, bargain bin shopping again but this time for a manager. 

[maloney.adam]

?

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Ozzie Guillen will not be the next manager of the White Sox.  Full stop.  

This scares me more than the rumors

[Harold's Leg Lift]

2 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Have any insight from your sources?

Not really.  Just hearing little things here and there. 

[The Kids Can Play]

3 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

Ethan Katz and the bullpen coach, are the only guys who should be allowed to stay. And with that being said, pitching coach and hitting coach hires have been more of a FO decision but this is encouraging, it looks like coaches like Boston and McEwing are gone

I am not convinced Katz did a great enough job to be kept on. Likewise I am not saying he did a bad job either. We don't know is how much or how little input he had in the pitching staff with the arrogant and demented TLR around. Maybe Tony never listened to or respected Katz. Plus if Katz was the so called the "Fixer and "Savior" of Lucas Giolito originally, then why wasn't Katz able to fix him these past two seasons as Lucas progressively became worse?

I just think a new manager needs to make his own pitching coach choice. Don't forget if TLR had his way and Dave Duncan took his TLR's offer, Katz would not have been the pitching coach these last two years. 

As far as the FO making the coaching staff moves, that is not always the case with all organizations. There are many clubs where the manager will select his entire coaching staff.

Having said that, I am not comfortable with Rick Hahn making coaching staff hires versus the new manager who knows more than Hahn what he wants and needs. Hahn should advise and assist the new manager in finding coaches to interview and maybe even join in the interviewing process, but the final decision should be made by the new manager.

Maybe its about time this dysfunctional organization changes they way they do business in order to change their unsuccessful ways.

[Tnetennba]

Dear gawd please someone hire Ozzie elsewhere.  He just needs to go away for good. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

I think strategically the actual amount of wins between a bad manager and a good one is very small. You do have to have good players to win. But, in being prepared, in being accountable.  Letting things slide, that total can grow by a big chunk. The Sox were a better team when LaRussa was gone, even with the fade at the end. I'm sure they would have been better if Cairo was there all year. I think they would have been more than 2 games better if Renteria was there and had his don't run it out you sit down rule on. There are plenty of candidates I hope they don't go with, but as long as it's not Tony, it will be an upgrade. Hendriks even admitted they needed someone to kick them in the ass more often. Tony was the substitute teacher or babysitter too many took advantage of. Whether it was his HOD status making him skip steps or think that was enough to control the clubhouse, or it was age and health, it doesn't matter, he wasn't up for the job. Unless they find the next Bevington, the next guy will be an upgrade.

I do doubt they will hire a guy who will be consensusly thought of as the best hire.

I think you’re probably right that the difference between good and bad strategically is probably a couple of games, but I think there’s an extreme case of that where the difference between bad and awful is bigger than the difference between good and bad. Just as a relevant recent example - how much damage did the Injury List Insanity do to the White Sox last year? This wasn’t just flipping one or two games at the margins, they literally subtracted 1 a full win from Robert by playing him when he needed to be on the IL, based on win probability added. Had they just put him on the IL for 6 weeks, that’s an extra WAR they didn’t lose from the team, and that was just 1 example of it this season.

[Snopek]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Shocking! Another GM out there knowing they need a great manager and deciding to out hustle the competition or in this case Rick Hahn. Hmmm. maybe that GM understands the notion "You snooze you lose!!!"

Hahn’s just waiting for the manager market to present itself or whatever nonsense he normally says.

[maloney.adam]

Espada is probably going to end up in Miami and we’re going to end up with another retread or a former Sox player.

Edited October 20, 2022 by maloney.adam

[maloney.adam]

16 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Hahn’s just waiting for the manager market to present itself or whatever nonsense he normally says.

He’s sleeping at the table. Everybody be quiet. ?

[Boopa1219]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I am not convinced Katz did a great enough job to be kept on. Likewise I am not saying he did a bad job either. We don't know is how much or how little input he had in the pitching staff with the arrogant and demented TLR around. Maybe Tony never listened to or respected Katz. Plus if Katz was the so called the "Fixer and "Savior" of Lucas Giolito originally, then why wasn't Katz able to fix him these past two seasons as Lucas progressively became worse?

 

 

Katz wasn’t hired to coach one guy. he gets no credit for developing Cease? Kopech, Cueto, Martin?

[he gone.]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

YES and not only a FULL STOP, we don't need anymore posters worrying about Ozzie being hired or wanting Ozzie hired. Reinsdorf has stated publicly and his comments documented on SoxTalk before, that per Jerry....Ozzie burned his bridges with the Sox and will never be brought back. 

If this was as true is you'd like it to be Ozzie wouldn't be doing pre and post game. Reinsdorf owns 50% of that station and in no way rubber stamp an hour of ozzie giving his thoughts everyday on the team if he burned a bridge that large. 

I think at the very least they will (or have) talked to him. Maybe not as a serious hire, maybe just as an advisor, but I'd think it's more likely than not they've spoke to him.

[NCsoxfan]

1 hour ago, maloney.adam said:

?

If you’re still giving Rick Hahn the benefit of the doubt I have some things to sell you. 

[Balta1701]

45 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

Katz wasn’t hired to coach one guy. he gets no credit for developing Cease? Kopech, Cueto, Martin?

I'm not going to actively hate on Katz to nearly the extent of the manager himself, but a handful of names that worked well doesn't necessarily prove what you want it to.

In 2021, the White Sox's pitching staff was excellent, in no small part thanks to Rodon. In 2022, the White Sox's pitching staff as a whole was meh - they were 10th in fWAR and that sums them up pretty well. One guy who was really good, a couple of reliable relievers, a couple of starters who overperformed, and a couple of starters who underperformed.

But when we look at it a certain way - the White Sox had the 3rd highest bullpen payroll in the league, and were 8th in bullpen fWAR. That's a little disconcerting. 

They were 11th in salary going to their starters (Lynn, Giolito, Keuchel) but were 15th in terms of fWAR from their starters. That's not particularly good. And if we really want to go for this...this team would have had a below average starting staff if they weren't bailed out by Cueto being available when Lynn got hurt - a normal offseason with no lockout and they would have been genuinely screwed.

If I were to take this as harshly as I could, they were a solidly paid pitching staff and an extremely highly paid bullpen that came out mediocre on average, they clearly disappointed and were a part of the underperformance in 2022. 2021 was a strong sales pitch for this pitching coach, 2022 was a clear disappointment particularly in the context of how expensive the staff was. 

If an incoming manager wants to replace the pitching coach, I'm not going to raise an alarm about it based on 2022. If the manager wants to keep this pitching coach, I will also gladly judge the manager and pitching coach based on how they perform, in a context like this one. 

[SonofaRoache]

26 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

If you’re still giving Rick Hahn the benefit of the doubt I have some things to sell you. 

Dude stopped giving Hahn the benefit years ago lol. He's been all over twitter slamming him and Jerey. 

[maxjusttyped]

3 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

 

Shocking to see they aren't interested in an Ozzie reunion or Thome. I wonder why that would possibly be?

[greg775]

1 hour ago, he gone. said:

If this was as true is you'd like it to be Ozzie wouldn't be doing pre and post game. Reinsdorf owns 50% of that station and in no way rubber stamp an hour of ozzie giving his thoughts everyday on the team if he burned a bridge that large. 

I think at the very least they will (or have) talked to him. Maybe not as a serious hire, maybe just as an advisor, but I'd think it's more likely than not they've spoke to him.

Truth be told, IMO Oz would be the choice if not for the comments on Castro. Can't overcome those. We're still in a cancel culture and Oz is still canceled despite the post game show. Also in 2006 he was fined by MLB and ordered into sensitivity training for inappropriate comments. Yes 06, the year after winning it all when Oz's ego got unleashed.

I love Ozzereoo but in cancel culture forget it. He's unhirable. I think he'd be great with this team tho,. What about co-managers? Oz and Renteria. Or Oz and Big Hurt? Or Oz and Thome? Don't laugh. Might work if the co skipper could handle the pre game interviews when Oz tended to ramble on. Co managers might survive the cancel culture thing, probably not tho. Baseball owners can't chance protests and things would probably explode immediately after announcement of Oz hiring as manager or co manager.

Edited October 20, 2022 by greg775

[Highland]

7 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Truth be told, IMO Oz would be the choice if not for the comments on Castro. Can't overcome those. We're still in a cancel culture and Oz is still canceled despite the post game show. Also in 2006 he was fined by MLB and ordered into sensitivity training for inappropriate comments. Yes 06, the year after winning it all when Oz's ego got unleashed.

I love Ozzereoo but in cancel culture forget it. He's unhirable. I think he'd be great with this team tho,. What about co-managers? Oz and Renteria. Or Oz and Big Hurt? Or Oz and Thome? Don't laugh. Might work if the co skipper could handle the pre game interviews when Oz tended to ramble on. Co managers might survive the cancel culture thing, probably not tho. Baseball owners can't chance protests and things would probably explode immediately after announcement of Oz hiring as manager or co manager.

Any kind of so-called cancel culture has nothing to do with Ozzie. If he had said those things about Castro when he was manager of the White Sox, the controversy would have faded in time. But he said them in Miami, and the political situation there is drastically different. There was the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis. Professional politicians watch what they say in Southern Florida. Ozzie got in over his head because of his big mouth.

There was the bad way he left the Sox, and the Marlins couldn't get rid of him fast enough. Don't forget his dumb sons.  Ozzie forgot it is the team that matters, not his ego. He was not a victim. He did this to himself. Plus he was a lousy manager the last year he was with the Sox. Enough of Ozzie already.