soxfaninfl Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 24 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Why is it a disaster? The bigger the search the better. Why does it have to be the 3 or 4 guys that everyone can name? You actually have to be an insider to name Mendoza. It exposes all the fakes, and how does anyone here know Mendoza doesn't understand baseball? Explain the dance with the devil last week. How do you go to a guy like Mendoza and honestly say, "Don't worry. Ozzie is not looking over your shoulder. Just don't screw up." We have seen this with players... no real plan until the last possible minute and then options are limited. Again, I have no real beef with Mendoza per se. Whoever they hire, I want them to succeed. The route they are taking makes that an increasingly remote possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 I'm excited this Mendoza will be the fake manager today. I like to say those sounds Men - Doe - Za. Men - DoZA. Wait, I think I'm getting angry again. Yep. Goddammit, White Sox, you've really done it this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 31, 2022 Author Share Posted October 31, 2022 52 minutes ago, bmags said: I'm actually glad, shows they are just doing a wide range search people asked for. The manager position is weird, I don't think good ones gained that much from prior stops as third base or bench coaches. It's more it raises their floor knowing they've interacted and had to lead players to some extent. Like I said, one of two things is happening. #1 there is a fight for the heart of the White Sox between Jerry and the rest of the front office. Jerry has Ozzie, and the other guys want to actually do their jobs and get as many opinions about what is going on in the organization so that first off they hire the guy who fits this roster best, and secondly they learn as much as they can about the outside view of the White Sox, and ways to fix the problems. Meanwhile, Jerry thinks he knows best, and may well overrule his front office, again. #2, the Sox are playing 4D chess and running a fairly sophisticated misinformation program where they are using their sources to get out false flags to successfully run a subterfuge around who they actually want to talk to. They are throwing guys like Ozzie out there to keep the "sources" and fans busy while guys like Grifol and Mendoza fly in under the radar, both giving them some cover in their own organizations, as well as allowing the Sox to operate the search without a lot of information out there about it. It also could be something where they are feeding these rumors to specific people to see who is a leaker, and to know who they can trust in the future, and who they cannot, but to also still get tons of misinformation out there to hide their true intentions. To be fully honest, I really don't have any idea what is actually going on. I am afraid it is #1, but really hoping it is #2. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 31, 2022 Author Share Posted October 31, 2022 56 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Orrrrrr.....like.....they're interviewing a ton of different options like they said they wanted to do and most fans said they SHOULD do, and they haven't been updating the media on every step of the process. To this point, the Sox have done absolutely nothing worth getting upset about. They certainly have it within them to f*** this up, but to this point, they haven't. I continue to not understand how some people think this process has been some sort of disaster. Sox cannot control what blowhards say on the radio, nor should they directly have to address it. Sox fans fear a disaster because their last manager search was a literal disaster. It is a legitimate fear based on their most recent history. I can't even be mad at people for it, because Tony LaRussa. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Like I said, one of two things is happening. #1 there is a fight for the heart of the White Sox between Jerry and the rest of the front office. Jerry has Ozzie, and the other guys want to actually do their jobs and get as many opinions about what is going on in the organization so that first off they hire the guy who fits this roster best, and secondly they learn as much as they can about the outside view of the White Sox, and ways to fix the problems. Meanwhile, Jerry thinks he knows best, and may well overrule his front office, again. #2, the Sox are playing 4D chess and running a fairly sophisticated misinformation program where they are using their sources to get out false flags to successfully run a subterfuge around who they actually want to talk to. They are throwing guys like Ozzie out there to keep the "sources" and fans busy while guys like Grifol and Mendoza fly in under the radar, both giving them some cover in their own organizations, as well as allowing the Sox to operate the search without a lot of information out there about it. It also could be something where they are feeding these rumors to specific people to see who is a leaker, and to know who they can trust in the future, and who they cannot, but to also still get tons of misinformation out there to hide their true intentions. To be fully honest, I really don't have any idea what is actually going on. I am afraid it is #1, but really hoping it is #2. Or #3, they have interviewed a number of candidates as part of a normal search process and don't have full control over what the sports media or social media sources driving all these narratives (many of whom are just laypeople with little inside information or credibility) say on an hour-by-hour basis about each of the potential hires. They will announce a non-Ozzie managers after the WS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Like I said, one of two things is happening. #1 there is a fight for the heart of the White Sox between Jerry and the rest of the front office. Jerry has Ozzie, and the other guys want to actually do their jobs and get as many opinions about what is going on in the organization so that first off they hire the guy who fits this roster best, and secondly they learn as much as they can about the outside view of the White Sox, and ways to fix the problems. Meanwhile, Jerry thinks he knows best, and may well overrule his front office, again. #2, the Sox are playing 4D chess and running a fairly sophisticated misinformation program where they are using their sources to get out false flags to successfully run a subterfuge around who they actually want to talk to. They are throwing guys like Ozzie out there to keep the "sources" and fans busy while guys like Grifol and Mendoza fly in under the radar, both giving them some cover in their own organizations, as well as allowing the Sox to operate the search without a lot of information out there about it. It also could be something where they are feeding these rumors to specific people to see who is a leaker, and to know who they can trust in the future, and who they cannot, but to also still get tons of misinformation out there to hide their true intentions. To be fully honest, I really don't have any idea what is actually going on. I am afraid it is #1, but really hoping it is #2. I want it to be #2, but deep down I'm not sure I believe they would or could be so competent to pull off this level of misdirection, or even have the desire to. They seem to be casting a wide net, but what that actually says I don't know either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Sox fans fear a disaster because their last manager search was a literal disaster. It is a legitimate fear based on their most recent history. I can't even be mad at people for it, because Tony LaRussa. It's not just TLR. It's Ventura as well. Jerry had to convince him to take the job. Robin didn't even want to manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 16 minutes ago, soxfaninfl said: Explain the dance with the devil last week. How do you go to a guy like Mendoza and honestly say, "Don't worry. Ozzie is not looking over your shoulder. Just don't screw up." We have seen this with players... no real plan until the last possible minute and then options are limited. Again, I have no real beef with Mendoza per se. Whoever they hire, I want them to succeed. The route they are taking makes that an increasingly remote possibility. Youre saying there is no plan. There is a plan. To talk to as many as possible. The worst thing that can happen is RH and whoever he has in the room with them ultimately waste their time. It's far better than the alternative. They interviewed Ozzie. Admittedly that's scary, but if they don't hire him, he's done from now on. Mendoza, Long, who knows maybe even Maddon, have nothing to worry about with Ozzie unless the Sox insisted he be put on the coaching staff. If that was the case, they would have a hard time finding someone to take the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Sox fans fear a disaster because their last manager search was a literal disaster. It is a legitimate fear based on their most recent history. I can't even be mad at people for it, because Tony LaRussa. It's unnecessary fear and folks just looking to drown in a cup of water. Tony LaRussa is not the main reason the White Sox lost this past season. Until we get a grip on that fact as Sox fans, we'll just continue to keep being delusional and not pointing the finger where it belongs. a) The players b) Health c) Rich Hahn. LaRussa comes in right behind that group. And the next manager hire will fall in that exact same place in relevance for White Sox success. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 31, 2022 Author Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said: It's unnecessary fear and folks just looking to drown in a cup of water. Tony LaRussa is not the main reason the White Sox lost this past season. Until we get a grip on that fact as Sox fans, we'll just continue to keep being delusional and not pointing the finger where it belongs. a) The players b) Health c) Rich Hahn. LaRussa comes in right behind that group. And the next manager hire will fall in that exact same place in relevance for White Sox success. The managers job is primarily to fix #1 and get the most out of #2. Instead Tony burned this team to the ground. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Just now, southsider2k5 said: The managers job is primarily to fix #1 and get the most out of #2. Instead Tony burned this team to the ground. This is exactly what I meant by delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 From what I know, the White Sox have interviewed lots of people. By design, we don’t know about them. Everyone has heard about Ozzie because of his kids and friends in the media. I don’t think we should believe that he’s some sort of front runner just because it’s public. I’d be really surprised if they hired Ozzie Guillen. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 31, 2022 Author Share Posted October 31, 2022 Just now, HOFHurt35 said: This is exactly what I meant by delusional. Look, if a manager can't get the most out of his players, then they failed at their job. We KNOW that almost all of these players played WAY under their ceilings and potential after previously playing at a much higher level. We aren't just talking about 1 or 2 guys, but almost the entire franchise fell off. Sometimes a duck, really is a duck. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Well, Footlong just outed himself as a fraud. I tend to give these guys the benefit of the doubt until they go off the rails, but no more. All of these guys are full of s%*#. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said: Orrrrrr.....like.....they're interviewing a ton of different options like they said they wanted to do and most fans said they SHOULD do, and they haven't been updating the media on every step of the process. To this point, the Sox have done absolutely nothing worth getting upset about. They certainly have it within them to f*** this up, but to this point, they haven't. I continue to not understand how some people think this process has been some sort of disaster. Sox cannot control what blowhards say on the radio, nor should they directly have to address it. AMEN. What does it hurt to bring in 30 MLB caliber managers to talk. Even if you only hire one, what's wrong with talking to 30 perspectives? One might say something the others hadn't and take you in a total different direction. There's no rush here. The world series hasn't even finished yet ... let's talk to as many people as we want. Ours is the number one job available with a top 10 payroll and young talent. talk away until you find someone that makes you stop and that you NEED to hire that guy. A better direction for this thread would be questions you'd ask a perspective manager. I want to hear what you want to have answered as a fan. Mine #1 question to a manager would be center around Abreu and if they'd bring him back and how it'd change how they manage with or without him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: From what I know, the White Sox have interviewed lots of people. By design, we don’t know about them. Everyone has heard about Ozzie because of his kids and friends in the media. I don’t think we should believe that he’s some sort of front runner just because it’s public. I’d be really surprised if they hired Ozzie Guillen. Probably correct. But this is the team, when they could have had anyone they wanted, didn't bother to interview them, and hired Tony. And when they made that error, they did say, Ozzie won't be considered. Now, he's at least considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfaninfl Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Youre saying there is no plan. There is a plan. To talk to as many as possible. The worst thing that can happen is RH and whoever he has in the room with them ultimately waste their time. It's far better than the alternative. They interviewed Ozzie. Admittedly that's scary, but if they don't hire him, he's done from now on. Mendoza, Long, who knows maybe even Maddon, have nothing to worry about with Ozzie unless the Sox insisted he be put on the coaching staff. If that was the case, they would have a hard time finding someone to take the job. I am talking about a plan for the team, not a managerial search. Find the manager that fits the plan for the team. I just see darts thrown at the wall. You just don't invoke the name of Ozzie. They handled this much better in 2017 and 2020. Took him out of the running from the beginning. I have been wondering why this hasn't been the case to even this late of a date. Ozzie just enflames passions on both sides of the debate and, obviously, hijacks the process. I have said here I am fine with Ozzie and I am despite all the apparent baggage. To me, it would show the team is still interested in contending next year and maybe, just maybe, Jerry opens the wallet and gives us a chance to realistically trade or sign for a piece we need, i.e. Nimmo. At least it's a direction. Grifol, Washington, Mendoza, et al?? I will be fine with any of them as long as there is a plan other than anybody but Guillen. The Sox are an incomplete, mess of a team and we have all witnessed a disastrous 2022 as fans. I was hoping for some transparency in this search but that also just wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 While I have no problem casting a wide net, I do find it genuinely surprising that this isn't done yet. The White Sox have now been at this for a full month+, should well have had a few extra weeks to get started before that because they had to know LaRussa not being able to return was a possibility the last few weeks of the season, and the other 3 teams that had known managerial openings have their selections done. Casting a wide net is healthy, but it is also reasonable to expect that this should be done soon (unless they are actively waiting on someone from the Astros/Phillies, which would mean this should be announced next Monday). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 11 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: From what I know, the White Sox have interviewed lots of people. By design, we don’t know about them. Everyone has heard about Ozzie because of his kids and friends in the media. I don’t think we should believe that he’s some sort of front runner just because it’s public. I’d be really surprised if they hired Ozzie Guillen. I'd be floored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 1 minute ago, soxfaninfl said: I am talking about a plan for the team, not a managerial search. Find the manager that fits the plan for the team. I just see darts thrown at the wall. You just don't invoke the name of Ozzie. They handled this much better in 2017 and 2020. Took him out of the running from the beginning. I have been wondering why this hasn't been the case to even this late of a date. Ozzie just enflames passions on both sides of the debate and, obviously, hijacks the process. I have said here I am fine with Ozzie and I am despite all the apparent baggage. To me, it would show the team is still interested in contending next year and maybe, just maybe, Jerry opens the wallet and gives us a chance to realistically trade or sign for a piece we need, i.e. Nimmo. At least it's a direction. Grifol, Washington, Mendoza, et al?? I will be fine with any of them as long as there is a plan other than anybody but Guillen. The Sox are an incomplete, mess of a team and we have all witnessed a disastrous 2022 as fans. I was hoping for some transparency in this search but that also just wishful thinking. Why do they have to be locked in to something now. Listen to these guys from all over. Its part of putting the plan together. See what someone else thinks of your players. Jerry Krause used to hire an independent scout to scout the Bulls. In fact, that's how Doug Collins first came to the Bulls. Get some perspective from not so close. Get opinions from people who aren't invested. I know, ultimately, I will probably be a little disappointed in the hire, but I actually like what is happening now. And, at the very least, they have been subject to some opinions they haven't been subjected to ever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 JR is on record as saying firing LaRussa was one of his biggest regrets. JR is also on record saying Ozzie burned bridges with the White Sox and can never come back as manager. I don't understand where people get the idea that JR's LaRussa hire two years ago is an indicator that he will insist on hiring Ozzie this year. They are completely different candidates vis a vis JR. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Just now, 35thstreetswarm said: JR is on record as saying firing LaRussa was one of his biggest regrets. JR is also on record saying Ozzie burned bridges with the White Sox and can never come back as manager. I don't understand where people get the idea that JR's LaRussa hire two years ago is an indicator that he will insist on hiring Ozzie this year. They are completely different candidates vis a vis JR. Really simply - it was stated bluntly he wouldn't come back, and yet he was allowed to interview for the position? How does the second part make sense with the first, unless the first is no longer true? It doesn't. After the last manager, you'll forgive us for watching for those sorts of signs that something really troublesome is brewing...again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: While I have no problem casting a wide net, I do find it genuinely surprising that this isn't done yet. The White Sox have now been at this for a full month+, should well have had a few extra weeks to get started before that because they had to know LaRussa not being able to return was a possibility the last few weeks of the season, and the other 3 teams that had known managerial openings have their selections done. Casting a wide net is healthy, but it is also reasonable to expect that this should be done soon (unless they are actively waiting on someone from the Astros/Phillies, which would mean this should be announced next Monday). I would guess the next day they would be allowed to announce anything is the next off day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: I would guess the next day they would be allowed to announce anything is the next off day. There might not be an off day if they get rained out tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossanoveralls Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 One thing's for sure. You never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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