Official NBA 22-23

[Tnetennba]

20 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

I don’t like Pat much but I get why they did this and if Cowley is right and we see them move on from Lavine, Vic and Demar than I am pretty happy. Took too long to kind of hit a reset. 

I'd really need to know what other offers were on the table for him. It feels like a classic bid-against-themselves while doubling down on the colossal mistake of taking him 4th.

[Dick Allen]

DeRozan is screwed. Almost impossible for him to be involved in a sign and trade for what he wants. He's going to have to sign really cheap for a season, and then he may finally get old.

[bmags]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1808246137209643120?s=46&t=9lkBcVJmwvxFpyVi5DNtCg
 

this is why I don’t think the pat deal is bad.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1808246137209643120?s=46&t=9lkBcVJmwvxFpyVi5DNtCg
 

this is why I don’t think the pat deal is bad.

Yeah, there was a write up around the time of the signing about how tradable that Williams contract would still be in the modern NBA, which is nuts to me, but apparently true.

[Chisoxfn]

32 minutes ago, bmags said:

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1808246137209643120?s=46&t=9lkBcVJmwvxFpyVi5DNtCg
 

this is why I don’t think the pat deal is bad.

We know I probably like Pat the least of everyone on this board...but I can't blame the Bulls on that deal and I wouldn't be surprised if they get really good surplus value on this 2nd deal.  

The interesting guy is White - he is in a really good place right now - but I think his next deal will be a bad one.  Bulls probably are fine holding onto him for another year - but if we are rebuilding Coby could be an interesting player to dangle - as teams around the apron will value what he brings to the table plus how he can fit in without blowing up their budgets.  

Ayo is kind of in a similar spot.  And in fairness - the Bulls could and should hold them now, but I could see a scenario where they are actually dangled at the deadline to maximize their value.  

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

DeRozan is screwed. Almost impossible for him to be involved in a sign and trade for what he wants. He's going to have to sign really cheap for a season, and then he may finally get old.

I hope we can facilitate a sign and trade. Hopefully they can get some form of lottery protected first (even with heavy protections)…kind of like when they got him first time. 
 

I think Lakers is likely destination. That or get some tpes to help facilitate other teams cap deals for assets or a buy low candidate. 
 

For first time in a while, I am actually moderately pleased with direction of Bulls (too bad it took this long). But in isolation I like every move they have made. 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Chisoxfn said:

I hope we can facilitate a sign and trade. Hopefully they can get some form of lottery protected first (even with heavy protections)…kind of like when they got him first time. 
 

I think Lakers is likely destination. That or get some tpes to help facilitate other teams cap deals for assets or a buy low candidate. 
 

For first time in a while, I am actually moderately pleased with direction of Bulls (too bad it took this long). But in isolation I like every move they have made. 

They should have done this two years ago, or at the latest last year, as that was still at max value for the big 3, but better late than never.

[Chisoxfn]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

They should have done this two years ago, or at the latest last year, as that was still at max value for the big 3, but better late than never.

100 percent. A year ago and they get real value for Zach and Derozan is an asset and you get what you got for Caruso and maybe a bit more. You than sign and trade Vuc to facilitate. Would have been a significantly better starting point. 

[Chisoxfn]

I will say one good option is Spurs are interested and they give back our first in a sign and trade and maybe a few seconds or something. Demar and Paul two quality vets around the young and rebuilding squad. 
 

Reality is Bulls “tanking” means Spurs aren’t getting that pick next year anyway so that lessens blow from their side. 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

I will say one good option is Spurs are interested and they give back our first in a sign and trade and maybe a few seconds or something. Demar and Paul two quality vets around the young and rebuilding squad. 
 

Reality is Bulls “tanking” means Spurs aren’t getting that pick next year anyway so that lessens blow from their side. 

It would be better than nothing TBH.  Don't know how the cap part works though.

[Chisoxfn]

Derozan to kings. Bulls get a couple 2nd rounders and Duerte. Harrison Barnes to spurs. 
 

I think I would have rather gotten the other guy the Kings were dangling and would have packaged him in season for some assets. 
 

At least Bulls making it clear they are going to be rebuilding. I know nothing about Duerte. 
 

I actually think Demar is a pretty solid fit with Kings and I wish him well. Such a class act and good dude. 

[Chisoxfn]

What happened with Duarte - his stats were pretty solid his rookie year.

[Soxfest]

Table scraps for Bulls yet again 

[WhiteSox2023]

35 minutes ago, Soxfest said:

Table scraps for Bulls yet again 

Chicago GMs are the worst GMs.  All of them.  Trading all these guys too late for a worse return.  What a loser.

Edited July 7 by WhiteSox2023

[Chisoxfn]

24 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Chicago GMs are the worst GMs.  All of them.  Trading all these guys too late for a worse return.  What a loser.

We can all agree they should have done this last offseason…would have been a far better start to offseason, but thus far this offseason I can’t really argue much. 

[Kyyle23]

8 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

We can all agree they should have done this last offseason…would have been a far better start to offseason, but thus far this offseason I can’t really argue much. 

I mean, you made the argument.  They should have made these deals for better returns 1-2 years ago, that in itself makes these deals light.  You really can complain 

[bmags]

There just wasn’t a lot of reason to expect a lot back in an S&T for DeRozan because of the salary we could take back.  But that’s also because they refuse to go over luxury tax (even if they could get under easily before needed).

If they somehow win the lottery next year, this could work out nice.

But they are once again entering a rebuild with few assets and not even much salary cap space to use (a la Utah).

I remember a few hours where we heard rumors the bulls may pry Presti from OKC. Instead we got the lieutenant who was apparently a wallflower in Denver. Such a shame.

[soxfan49]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

I mean, you made the argument.  They should have made these deals for better returns 1-2 years ago, that in itself makes these deals light.  You really can complain 

They better be absolute dogshit & better get a top 2 pick next year. Finishing 4th or some s%*# in the lottery does nothing for anybody here, although that may put an end to the AK/BD regime whereas getting Flagg/Harper may just delay the inevitable

[Kyyle23]

3 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

They better be absolute dogshit & better get a top 2 pick next year. Finishing 4th or some s%*# in the lottery does nothing for anybody here, although that may put an end to the AK/BD regime whereas getting Flagg/Harper may just delay the inevitable

Being dogshit doesn’t even guarantee you a top pick anymore, just a better chance at it.  Just like the Sox, the Reinsdorfs are a day late and a dollar short on tanking everything 

[soxfan49]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Being dogshit doesn’t even guarantee you a top pick anymore, just a better chance at it.  Just like the Sox, the Reinsdorfs are a day late and a dollar short on tanking everything 

You're correct but the odds of them being mediocre and getting a top 2 pick are slim to none. They've done it in a poor way but if this all leads to Harper or Flagg, so be it. Unfortunately that likely means AK/BD stick around so maybe it won't matter

[Chisoxfn]

I stand corrected - not a good deal. Bulls are going to suck for next year or two and they could have gotten an unprotected pick swap out in 2031 and were to cheap to buy it by taking on Barnes. They could have done other things to get under tax and Barnes is a solid vet who you could keep around for the season or until deadline or keep for a year and use when he becomes an expiring. 
 

They better leverage that tpe they got to facilitate some future asset cause getting an unprotected pick from an org like the Kings who has historically been bad is by far the best asset in the entire sign and trade (sans Demar). 

[Dick Allen]

When was the last time a team really made out on the return of a sign and trade?

[bmags]

28 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

When was the last time a team really made out on the return of a sign and trade?

spurs?

[Chisoxfn]

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

spurs?

Spurs twice - getting a FRP from Bulls and there is a 50% chance at some point in next 3 years Bulls fall into spot where they give up that pick.  And again Spurs getting a pick swap for taking on Harrison Barnes. It is out in 2031 - so absolutely a chance that in 2031 Spurs are worse than Kings and it is worth nothing or two teams are in same boat -> but also a non zero chance that Kings are in middle of yet another rebuild at that point and Spurs being who they are a playoff team so Spurs end up with a pretty damn good pick just for being a faciltator.  

To me any one move in isolation may have a lower probability in terms of the outcome - but the upside in the pick the Spurs got from the Kings is massive (it could be a top 3 pick).  You than make 5 or 6 of those moves in a 2-3 year window and you end up improving your probability / scenarios.  

Now in fairness - maybe Bulls will do exactly that and they think use TPE in-season or later in off-season will drive a better return than an unprotected pick swap out in 2031 (or whenever it is).  But that swap is exponentially more valuable than what the Bulls got in terms of 2 2nd round picks and some cash plus a player who is going to be a back end rotation player at best.  

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

Spurs twice - getting a FRP from Bulls and there is a 50% chance at some point in next 3 years Bulls fall into spot where they give up that pick.  And again Spurs getting a pick swap for taking on Harrison Barnes. It is out in 2031 - so absolutely a chance that in 2031 Spurs are worse than Kings and it is worth nothing or two teams are in same boat -> but also a non zero chance that Kings are in middle of yet another rebuild at that point and Spurs being who they are a playoff team so Spurs end up with a pretty damn good pick just for being a faciltator.  

To me any one move in isolation may have a lower probability in terms of the outcome - but the upside in the pick the Spurs got from the Kings is massive (it could be a top 3 pick).  You than make 5 or 6 of those moves in a 2-3 year window and you end up improving your probability / scenarios.  

Now in fairness - maybe Bulls will do exactly that and they think use TPE in-season or later in off-season will drive a better return than an unprotected pick swap out in 2031 (or whenever it is).  But that swap is exponentially more valuable than what the Bulls got in terms of 2 2nd round picks and some cash plus a player who is going to be a back end rotation player at best.  

Well the first was a S&T, and the second was use of cap space. Utah and others are getting huge gains from just having cap space right now. THe bulls is tied up in the mid 3 + lonzo.