Official NBA 22-23

[fathom]

1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

I said it two years ago and I’ll say it again - Patrick Williams absolutely sucks. He somehow continues to get worse. Such a bad 4th overall pick. 

He’s never been good 

[chw42]

2 hours ago, fathom said:

He’s never been good 

And he wanted 20+ million for an extension...

I know he's only 21, but he really hasn't improved over the last few years to think he's gonna start anytime soon. 

Coby White at least improved in a few areas last year (finally). 

Edited October 29, 2023 by chw42

[Tnetennba]

On 10/28/2023 at 9:57 PM, Chisoxfn said:

I said it two years ago and I’ll say it again - Patrick Williams absolutely sucks. He somehow continues to get worse. Such a bad 4th overall pick. 

I hated the pick when it was made and nothing has swayed my view that it was a colossal mistake. 

[bmags]

Basketball is such a mental game. I'm not sure you can ever hit a high level when you never played like you were the best player on the floor.

Can't imagine how different everything looks if they draft Halliburton instead.

[Stinky Stanky]

40 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

I hated the pick when it was made and nothing has swayed my view that it was a colossal mistake. 

He has a nice 3 pt % and can defend a little.  These are not the skills of a PF, so he's playing out of position. Plus he looks lost out there and could use a sports shrink right about now.  That's one but not all of the reasons the team has no inside presence.

[whitesoxfan99]

It is honestly pointless following the Bulls and Sox until Reindsorf dies or sells unless they just flat out luck into an MVP caliber player like they did with Rose.  And even then I wouldn't be confident they could built a championship team around that player.  I've saved so much money and been happier since I stopped giving Reinsdorf any money for tickets.  I just watch teams and players that I find fun to watch.  Maybe someday I'll be able to follow the Bulls closely again.

[Harry Chappas]

1 hour ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

It is honestly pointless following the Bulls and Sox until Reindsorf dies or sells unless they just flat out luck into an MVP caliber player like they did with Rose.  And even then I wouldn't be confident they could built a championship team around that player.  I've saved so much money and been happier since I stopped giving Reinsdorf any money for tickets.  I just watch teams and players that I find fun to watch.  Maybe someday I'll be able to follow the Bulls closely again.

People seem to forget that Jimmy Butler was what they needed to get over the hump and converted that into Zach Levine.  Then doubled down on him. 

[Tnetennba]

3 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

People seem to forget that Jimmy Butler was what they needed to get over the hump and converted that into Zach Levine.  Then doubled down on him. 

Has Butler gotten a team over the hump elsewhere? Let’s not forget that the old FO surrounded Butler with Rondo a broken down Wade, and handed the coaching gig to boobs like Hoiberg and Boylen or whatever his name was. Those teams were maxed out as a regular playoff team never good enough to go all the way.  

[BigHurt3515]

It is so frustrating that our last two draft picks can't even sniff minutes 

[Texsox]

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0pveH7xYRAoEJrrq8zd4sQ3CRvk8CwoauGyUQgX8YLiU8XQWSGxPZL9ZcGZmauyuUl&id=100059610605823&post_id=100059610605823_pfbid0pveH7xYRAoEJrrq8zd4sQ3CRvk8CwoauGyUQgX8YLiU8XQWSGxPZL9ZcGZmauyuUl&mibextid=Nif5o

The Spurs have had one coach for 27 years. Pops has faced 307 different head coaches during that time. If he's not the GOAT he's close. 

[BigHurt3515]

Hey Demar, how about we run an offense instead of just trying to go 1 on 1 every other possession 

[Stinky Stanky]

5 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Has Butler gotten a team over the hump elsewhere? Let’s not forget that the old FO surrounded Butler with Rondo a broken down Wade, and handed the coaching gig to boobs like Hoiberg and Boylen or whatever his name was. Those teams were maxed out as a regular playoff team never good enough to go all the way.  

Had the Celtics down 2-0 on their court in the playoffs when Rondo got hurt and then were swept out 4-2.I'm not sure that Coach D is any better a coach than Boylen, as dorky as Boylen may have looked.

[bmags]

15 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Has Butler gotten a team over the hump elsewhere? Let’s not forget that the old FO surrounded Butler with Rondo a broken down Wade, and handed the coaching gig to boobs like Hoiberg and Boylen or whatever his name was. Those teams were maxed out as a regular playoff team never good enough to go all the way.  

what do you mean over the hump? He's gotten miami to the finals twice as the best player on that team. He carried Philly in the playoffs before Embiid really took over as a top 5 guy, and they made the insane decision to go with TObias Harris over him.

At the time I did think the Bulls could never put stars around butler. It was sane to think that given the conservative nature of paxson at the end of his tenure. But given the rest of how the nba moved after that, they got by far the worst package for a guy that good since, and traded him right as top 30 players started moving a lot more as teams gave up hope they could re-sign guys with the extra money.

[bmags]

I think Coby needs to move to the 2nd unit. Just too much guys need the ball in the starters.

[Chisoxfn]

23 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think Coby needs to move to the 2nd unit. Just too much guys need the ball in the starters.

They need to move one of Derozan or Lavine. Those two together don’t work. They really need to blow it the hell up but I know that won’t happen - but trading one and getting better fits and parts would be an improvement.

[Chisoxfn]

And yes - trading Butler in hindsight was not good. Of course I said that at the time too. Part of that is more how bad the Bulls did resetting too. This front office is so much worse than Paxson. 

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

They need to move one of Derozan or Lavine. Those two together don’t work. They really need to blow it the hell up but I know that won’t happen - but trading one and getting better fits and parts would be an improvement.

I think they did indeed want to move lavine but realized there is no market for him. Too many games he is a zero, and then he has a 51 pt no assist game and it's like...this guy is damon stoudemire lol.

I do think they could get a real big package for Demar and Caruso together.

I don't get the crapping on Demar, he's the one guy that deserves to play like that. Just a terribly constructed team that they just seemed unable to make less terribly constructed so kept making it more terribly constructed.

But drafting two complete projects really takes the cake. Ugh. No end in sight for the bulls.

But that aside...I cannot believe we are still in the "emptying out the team for James Harden" era. Feels like this has been a game of hot potato, and the clippers are definitely gonna be stuck with the music stopping.

[Chisoxfn]

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think they did indeed want to move lavine but realized there is no market for him. Too many games he is a zero, and then he has a 51 pt no assist game and it's like...this guy is damon stoudemire lol.

I do think they could get a real big package for Demar and Caruso together.

I don't get the crapping on Demar, he's the one guy that deserves to play like that. Just a terribly constructed team that they just seemed unable to make less terribly constructed so kept making it more terribly constructed.

But drafting two complete projects really takes the cake. Ugh. No end in sight for the bulls.

But that aside...I cannot believe we are still in the "emptying out the team for James Harden" era. Feels like this has been a game of hot potato, and the clippers are definitely gonna be stuck with the music stopping.

I think Bulls could deal Lavine. His shooting fits plenty of places but he obviously has his flaws. This roster brings them out a ton. Zero spacing and play. 
 

Demar is fine to keep and get assets for Lavine but even that I don’t get a ton, but different is at least different…maybe you get the same outcome maybe a better one, maybe a worse one…but what they have is clearly broke. 
 

Drafting has been s%*#, trading has been bad (Vuc was a massive overpay), and roster construction was poor. Yes Lonzo got hurt but good lord pivot. 
 

I love basketball and I just hate everything about this team. Even White who has been a good story just slowly developing - nice growth, but that is like the only like truly likeable thing on this team. Ayo plays hard so I guess that too - but he obviously had flaws. 
 

Derozan is good dude so you can root for him and he seems like a great teammate so I get that. But god such a boring an awful zero upside team. 

[Tnetennba]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

what do you mean over the hump? He's gotten miami to the finals twice as the best player on that team. He carried Philly in the playoffs before Embiid really took over as a top 5 guy, and they made the insane decision to go with TObias Harris over him.

At the time I did think the Bulls could never put stars around butler. It was sane to think that given the conservative nature of paxson at the end of his tenure. But given the rest of how the nba moved after that, they got by far the worst package for a guy that good since, and traded him right as top 30 players started moving a lot more as teams gave up hope they could re-sign guys with the extra money.

I'm saying that in response to a previous post. I don't think Butler or Lavine are best player on a championship level team, so ultimately you are in the same spot, just not good enough. I'm not the biggest Butler fan, and I think they got fair value in the trade (aftermath is a different story), but I don't lament Butler not being here. The old FO couldn't find the right fit around him to win it all, and I doubt the current regime would either. Hindsight being what it is, I'd easily take Butler's level of success elsewhere here instead of the busted-ass approach since. But it ultimately falls on ownership to pay up and I don't think they would have either way.

I don't think you can look at what Butler has done elsewhere and think it could or should have happened here.  Bulls ownership and FO are just too inept to make that happen.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Tnetennba

[BigHurt3515]

Do we run offensive sets? I see other teams running plays and getting guys cutting to the basket for easy points and we do a lot of 1 on 1

[Tnetennba]

38 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

Do we run offensive sets? I see other teams running plays and getting guys cutting to the basket for easy points and we do a lot of 1 on 1

Narrator: No. 

[Chisoxfn]

They better lose Lavine before his value hits the tubes. 

[bmags]

I think some of the Billy Donovan hate is unfounded. There is just some reality here where they put together a team of a bunch of ball dominant players who aren't great playmakers together on offense. If Zach and Coby and Pat sat on the 3 point line and just hit 3s, and if DeRozan and Vuc hit them when they were open, it would work better. But they all need to take turns.

Meanwhile defensively he's turned them into a pretty strong team.

It's the team mix that absolutely sucks. Steve Kerr doesn't turn this into a contender.

Trade Zach, Trade Demar + Caruso. Start over. It doesn't work.

[Chisoxfn]

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think some of the Billy Donovan hate is unfounded. There is just some reality here where they put together a team of a bunch of ball dominant players who aren't great playmakers together on offense. If Zach and Coby and Pat sat on the 3 point line and just hit 3s, and if DeRozan and Vuc hit them when they were open, it would work better. But they all need to take turns.

Meanwhile defensively he's turned them into a pretty strong team.

It's the team mix that absolutely sucks. Steve Kerr doesn't turn this into a contender.

Trade Zach, Trade Demar + Caruso. Start over. It doesn't work.

It is really evident to me that Zach & Demar don't work. One plays in tempo the other is half court.  One is bad in tempo, the other is bad in half court.  Literally they couldn't have paired a worse duo together.  And you saw it last night - the movement and spacing was great in transition and team ran a ton when Demar was not in.  Demar comes in it slows down.  

Not saying who they should pick - and in my mind they should blow it all up - but having both is literally the worse possible decision because they parts DON'T work.  IF you want to try something different while still attempting to compete (again - not what I would propose) than trade one of them. Trade Derozan for a 4 and a PG or something (no idea who).  Or trade Lavine and just get a ton of assets and go from there.  Than if that doesn't work - trade the other later in the season.  

But status QUO does NOT work.  It is so evident to everyone but the Bulls front office for whatever reason.  

[Chisoxfn]

12 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think some of the Billy Donovan hate is unfounded. There is just some reality here where they put together a team of a bunch of ball dominant players who aren't great playmakers together on offense. If Zach and Coby and Pat sat on the 3 point line and just hit 3s, and if DeRozan and Vuc hit them when they were open, it would work better. But they all need to take turns.

Meanwhile defensively he's turned them into a pretty strong team.

It's the team mix that absolutely sucks. Steve Kerr doesn't turn this into a contender.

Trade Zach, Trade Demar + Caruso. Start over. It doesn't work.

And I should state - I agree. I don't know if Donovan is a great coach, but he's proven in his career he isn't a bad coach.  Every coach needs talent and the right talent - this team IS not that.  Although I give major credit for him to have a defense that is playing this well despite having Derozan and Zach getting this many minutes. Pretty incredible to be honest.