White Sox hiring - Data Engineer & Minor League Player Development interns

[South Side Hit Men]

Here is your chance to help the White Sox if you have a background as a data engineer. Chicago or Glendale are the listed locations.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/instagraphs/job-posting-white-sox-operations-data-engineer-player-development-affiliate-intern/

Link also lists their four minor league locations and a job posting for Player Development Affiliate Interns. 

[Hang Wiffem]

Sounds like a job for Jay Cuda

[CentralChamps21]

3 minutes ago, Hang Wiffem said:

Sounds like a job for Jay Cuda

I don't know how old he is or what his current job is, but this sounds like an entry level position.

[chw42]

I'm in software engineering and actually have some experience with what they listed in the requirements. But everything I've read about the industry says they don't pay enough for how much they work you. Personally, I'd probably love to work on this stuff since I'm into analytics, but I'm not sure how much I'll like it when it's my livelihood and I'm forced to work weekends. 

[Tnetennba]

So more cheap (grossly underpaid) labour for a billion dollar industry.  Cool cool. 

[Big Hurtin]

Doesn't "intern" imply working for nothing (college credit, I think)?

[T R U]

1 hour ago, chw42 said:

I'm in software engineering and actually have some experience with what they listed in the requirements. But everything I've read about the industry says they don't pay enough for how much they work you. Personally, I'd probably love to work on this stuff since I'm into analytics, but I'm not sure how much I'll like it when it's my livelihood and I'm forced to work weekends. 

There is also the benefit that you may become a candidate for the Manager position in the future when it opens up again.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

2 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I don't know how old he is or what his current job is, but this sounds like an entry level position.

I am guessing this is also why every person I see on twitter posting about their new jobs in the Sox Analytics dept are gone after a year. 

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, chw42 said:

I'm in software engineering and actually have some experience with what they listed in the requirements. But everything I've read about the industry says they don't pay enough for how much they work you. Personally, I'd probably love to work on this stuff since I'm into analytics, but I'm not sure how much I'll like it when it's my livelihood and I'm forced to work weekends. 

Yes, in season I would imagine 50-60 + hour weeks the norm (excluding travel), not the exception. Not sure how the off-season works.

16 minutes ago, Big Hurtin said:

Doesn't "intern" imply working for nothing (college credit, I think)?

Many intern jobs pay these days, but I would estimate in this instance you might not be getting much more than the below poverty level minor league players, sans the “free” slumlord conditions Jerry houses his players.

These four jobs are foot in the door, hope you are financially wealthy enough to cover your expenses outside of the meager pay we give you jobs.

The data engineering job is entry level, but after you break down your hourly with uncompensated OT, you likely would be compensated at a higher hourly in a different industry.

Posted primarily because some will still think it may be worth it for the experience and perhaps future opportunities for people passionate enough about the team / sport that they spend time here.

[he gone.]

Imagine how many great minds you could hire for the cost of one Leury Garcia. 

[Eminor3rd]

Baseball ops data team typically works longer hours in the offseason than in-season, interestingly enough. 

[caulfield12]

10 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Yes, in season I would imagine 50-60 + hour weeks the norm (excluding travel), not the exception. Not sure how the off-season works.

Many intern jobs pay these days, but I would estimate in this instance you might not be getting much more than the below poverty level minor league players, sans the “free” slumlord conditions Jerry houses his players.

These four jobs are foot in the door, hope you are financially wealthy enough to cover your expenses outside of the meager pay we give you jobs.

The data engineering job is entry level, but after you break down your hourly with uncompensated OT, you likely would be compensated at a higher hourly in a different industry.

Posted primarily because some will still think it may be worth it for the experience and perhaps future opportunities for people passionate enough about the team / sport that they spend time here.

Try 70-80 hours when the team is at home. 

Not clear, but highly likely they would also travel with the team on the road. 

So it's a full/solid five months of busting your ass for peanuts with a perhaps 1/3 or 1/4 shot at a real paying job. 

And even that paying job after one year is going to be a lot less than the majority are expecting based on the skills required. 

Far better to build an independent reputation in the industry and get hired from FG, BP, etc.  

Seems more like lip service to transforming things analytically. 

Follow the money/investment, or lack thereof. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by caulfield12

[South Side Hit Men]

8 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

Baseball ops data team typically works longer hours in the offseason than in-season, interestingly enough. 

Is that primarily to help prepare for the amateur draft, free agency, spring training, or really just all of the above. Fascinating world few of us are privy too, I've only read a few articles about it, including the Cubs significant analytics department of solid college graduates agreeing to work for nominal sums just for the glory and ring.

I believe it is more important to chase your dreams, especially when you are young without significant commitments. When you look at your life 30 or 50 years down the line, you will reflect on the good times despite the hard work and settling for cheap beer and wings night as a rare social escape among the hard work you put in. Few other industries would command that level of commitment for peanuts financially.

22 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Try 70-80 hours when the team is at home. 

Not clear, but highly likely they would also travel with the team on the road. 

So it's a full/solid five months of busting your ass for peanuts with a perhaps 1/3 or 1/4 shot at a real paying job. 

And even that paying job after one year is going to be a lot less than the majority are expecting based on the skills required. 

Far better to build an independent reputation in the industry and get hired from FG, BP, etc.  

Seems more like lip service to transforming things analytically. 

Follow the money/investment, or lack thereof. 

Yes, just guestimated with my 50-60 + hour statement. Had a busy season throughout my career, but never more than 3-4 months throughout a calendar year (either quarter ends or the Winter/early Spring). Don't think I would be happy with 75 hour weeks six months each year, unless I knew it led to "f*** you money" and could retire before 30.

Never understood how the "Big Four" people who worked on our engagements dealt with it, though many were on work visas and don't really have an option. 

[hi8is]

13 hours ago, chw42 said:

I'm in software engineering and actually have some experience with what they listed in the requirements. But everything I've read about the industry says they don't pay enough for how much they work you. Personally, I'd probably love to work on this stuff since I'm into analytics, but I'm not sure how much I'll like it when it's my livelihood and I'm forced to work weekends. 

If I was in any of their locations I’d do it just to fulfill a dream of working for the Sox and “being a part of the team.”

You’re right, it would be long hours and piss pay at first but it could easily turn into one of the best jobs you could ever ask for.

[Dominikk85]

20 minutes ago, hi8is said:

If I was in any of their locations I’d do it just to fulfill a dream of working for the Sox and “being a part of the team.”

You’re right, it would be long hours and piss pay at first but it could easily turn into one of the best jobs you could ever ask for.

That's why they can get away with low offers. The pay is low but you will find enough young data scientists who say "who cares, I'm 25, I don't need money, let's work for 3 years in pro ball and then make money in other industries" just so he can brag all his live he worked in pro ball. 

 

Btw I don't want to talk badly about this, if I'm a young data scientist who doesn't have a family yet why not do it, it sounds like a cool experience. A friend of mine works as an analyst with the mariners. Politically he is a communist (not in the way right wing people use it to insult democrats but an actual communist who believes many industries should be communized:)) so he is critical of that form of labor exploitation but he still enjoys it very much but he acknowledges that this model mostly attracts privileged young people from well off families who can afford to do this for a couple years as a hobby while for example a young data scientist from a poor black (and of course also poor white) background might not be able to afford that. 

That is one of the reasons that hurts diversity in those positions. 

Still I think if you are from such a privileged position it is a great opportunity to try it, sure it is a lot of hours and bad pay but who cares if you are young and don't have a family to feed yet. 

Many come back a little disillusioned from those jobs though and report there isn't really much creative freedom and you might end up all year trying to solve some pain in the but technical problem instead of feeling a great connection to the baseball side but that also might be different from org to org. 

 

My friend who works in pitching development in seattle feels that he is very involved in the pitching development where they use a ton of modern tech but in another org you might work on a data import technical problem all year. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Dominikk85 said:

That's why they can get away with low offers. The pay is low but you will find enough young data scientists who say "who cares, I'm 25, I don't need money, let's work for 3 years in pro ball and then make money in other industries" just so he can brag all his live he worked in pro ball. 

 

Btw I don't want to talk badly about this, if I'm a young data scientist who doesn't have a family yet why not do it, it sounds like a cool experience. A friend of mine works as an analyst with the mariners. Politically he is a communist (not in the way right wing people use it to insult democrats but an actual communist who believes many industries should be communized:)) so he is critical of that form of labor exploitation but he still enjoys it very much but he acknowledges that this model mostly attracts privileged young people from well off families who can afford to do this for a couple years as a hobby while for example a young data scientist from a poor black (and of course also poor white) background might not be able to afford that. 

That is one of the reasons that hurts diversity in those positions. 

Still I think if you are from such a privileged position it is a great opportunity to try it, sure it is a lot of hours and bad pay but who cares if you are young and don't have a family to feed yet. 

Many come back a little disillusioned from those jobs though and report there isn't really much creative freedom and you might end up all year trying to solve some pain in the but technical problem instead of feeling a great connection to the baseball side but that also might be different from org to org. 

 

My friend who works in pitching development in seattle feels that he is very involved in the pitching development where they use a ton of modern tech but in another org you might work on a data import technical problem all year. 

I have a feeling it would be the latter with the Sox.  Unless you went to Notre Dame, lol.   We keep connecting Getz and Hahn together because of Michigan, well Fabian is the one in Chicago who lets you into the inner sanctum or not.

In that sense, better to work in Charlotte or Birmingham and attach yourself as indispensable to a prospect moving up like a Colas or Montgomery.

 

I also think Mike Gellinger is the career path you need to follow if you want to become the next Getz…unfortunately, Chris seems to have jumped Gellinger simply due to his “big league bonafides” and name recognition.  Jirschele might be running into the same issues as a managerial candidate…his name will not trigger any season ticket sales from a frustrated fanbase,

 

Mike Gellinger stayed with the White Sox organization after 1988 in a variety of roles. He began his coaching career as a player/coach for the Tampa White Sox in 1988. In 1989 Gellinger started the year as the third base coach for the Utica Blue Sox before taking over as manager on July 4th from Ron Vaughn. The primary purpose of the move was to allow Vaughn to concentrate on working with the hitters. In 1990 Gellinger managed the GCL White Sox, but there are also baseball cards showing him as a coach for the Birmingham Barons. It may be that he began the year with the full season Barons before taking up managerial responsibilities with the short season GCL team. Gellinger returned to Utica as manager in 1991. He was the White Sox' minor league defensive coordinator in 1992-1993 before returning to managing in 1994-1995. He spent 1996 as the minor league infield coordinator.

In 1997 Gellinger was named the White Sox' major league computer scouting analyst, a role he retained through the 2012 season. During these years he also worked informally with the hitters in support of hitting coach Greg Walker. This secondary role became more pronounced over the years so that by 2012 news reports referred to him as the assistant hitting coach even though he never formally held that title. He replaced Joey Cora as bench coach for Chicago for the final two games of the 2011 season after the White Sox fired both Cora and manager Ozzie Guillen. 

He was then manager of the Bristol White Sox in 2013 and served as the hitting coach for the Glendale Desert Dogs of the Arizona Fall League later that year. Gellinger managed the AZL White Sox from 2014-2015. He was scheduled to return in 2016, but was replaced by Ever Magallanes. Gellinger took over as minor league hitting coordinator for the 2017-2019 seasons. He was scheduled to manage the Great Falls Voyagers in 2020 before COVID-19 forced the cancellation of the minor league season. Gellinger was the manager for the ACL White Sox in 2021 and bench coach of the same club in 2022.

As a scout, he signed Eddy Alvarez.

Pretty sure in the middle of that he had some significant health problems. 

[caulfield12]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

I have a feeling it would be the latter with the Sox.  Unless you went to Notre Dame, lol.   We keep connecting Getz and Hahn together because of Michigan, well Fabian is the one in Chicago who lets you into the inner sanctum or not.

In that sense, better to work in Charlotte or Birmingham and attach yourself as indispensable to a prospect moving up like a Colas or Montgomery.

 

I also think Mike Gellinger is the career path you need to follow if you want to become the next Getz…unfortunately, Chris seems to have jumped Gellinger simply due to his “big league bonafides” and name recognition.  Jirschele might be running into the same issues as a managerial candidate…his name will not trigger any season ticket sales from a frustrated fanbase,

 

Mike Gellinger stayed with the White Sox organization after 1988 in a variety of roles. He began his coaching career as a player/coach for the Tampa White Sox in 1988. In 1989 Gellinger started the year as the third base coach for the Utica Blue Sox before taking over as manager on July 4th from Ron Vaughn. The primary purpose of the move was to allow Vaughn to concentrate on working with the hitters. In 1990 Gellinger managed the GCL White Sox, but there are also baseball cards showing him as a coach for the Birmingham Barons. It may be that he began the year with the full season Barons before taking up managerial responsibilities with the short season GCL team. Gellinger returned to Utica as manager in 1991. He was the White Sox' minor league defensive coordinator in 1992-1993 before returning to managing in 1994-1995. He spent 1996 as the minor league infield coordinator.

In 1997 Gellinger was named the White Sox' major league computer scouting analyst, a role he retained through the 2012 season. During these years he also worked informally with the hitters in support of hitting coach Greg Walker. This secondary role became more pronounced over the years so that by 2012 news reports referred to him as the assistant hitting coach even though he never formally held that title. He replaced Joey Cora as bench coach for Chicago for the final two games of the 2011 season after the White Sox fired both Cora and manager Ozzie Guillen. 

He was then manager of the Bristol White Sox in 2013 and served as the hitting coach for the Glendale Desert Dogs of the Arizona Fall League later that year. Gellinger managed the AZL White Sox from 2014-2015. He was scheduled to return in 2016, but was replaced by Ever Magallanes. Gellinger took over as minor league hitting coordinator for the 2017-2019 seasons. He was scheduled to manage the Great Falls Voyagers in 2020 before COVID-19 forced the cancellation of the minor league season. Gellinger was the manager for the ACL White Sox in 2021 and bench coach of the same club in 2022.

As a scout, he signed Eddy Alvarez.

Pretty sure in the middle of that he had some significant health problems. 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Mike_Gellinger

[Texsox]

On 10/25/2022 at 12:59 PM, Big Hurtin said:

Doesn't "intern" imply working for nothing (college credit, I think)?

There are both, paid and unpaid. And usually not for college credit but really helps in some fields to get hired after graduation. 

[Big Hurtin]

3 hours ago, Texsox said:

There are both, paid and unpaid. And usually not for college credit but really helps in some fields to get hired after graduation. 

Thanks, I think I mixed it up with co-op.

[Texsox]

11 hours ago, Big Hurtin said:

Thanks, I think I mixed it up with co-op.

Still a point you bring up is why is this not more of a senior level position instead of an intern?