Where will Eloy play in 23?

[southsider2k5]

22 minutes ago, tray said:

Here is the downside to trading Eloy and Moncada and relying on Colas to start in RF and Robert in CF:

Robert is"injury prone,",,,His  hand/wrist injuries seem related and if so, there  a risk of re-injury.

Colas might be the next Dayan Viciedo.  Looks like a tank in the videos.

Vaughn (another tank)  is the most over-hyped, over rated WSox player since Brian Anderson.

The return for Eloy and Moncada might be underwhelming.

Then be careful what you wish for trading core players.

Eloy might pump 40+ HR for the Yanks. Makes sense for them if they want to start replacing Judge's 62.

Moncada LH power might play well in Yankee stadium while Burger looks like he has his shoe laces tied together when fielding balls at third base.

Vaughn's 2022 season might prove to be the best of his career.

Sox need pitching. starters and bullpen. There are no injury proof players that will make a difference.

The last two seasons Eloy has played 139 of 324 possible games. Luis Robert has played in 166.  If Luis is "injury prone", what does that make a guy who has played 20% less games the last two years?  Someone else already took care of the Vaughn fallacy, so that one is safe.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Chimpton said:

Do you think Colas will get RF straight out of Spring Training? 

He should. Not many teams are playing service time games anymore And a team that's supposed to be a contender absolutely shouldn't be playing those games any way.

He's a good fielder . He left handed he hits for power. I thought he should've been up at the end of last year to get acclimated to RF at home and to get some experience in a pennant race.

Other's disagreed siting service time of course. Backwards thinking. It's better he get some growing pains out of the way in a season that was going down the tubes or at worst desperately needed defensive and offensive help from the left side and in RF.

So the Sox either feel he wasn't ready or they wanted to wait til May w/e it is to get as much time from him as possible while sacrificing wins .

If you want guys to have 150 game seasons it's best to call them up and let them play and contribute as soon as they can. He's already 24 why f*** with him? He's already lost too much much developmental time to going from Cuba to Japan and to the US. It's fairly amazing he got his act together in one year in the states. He deserves a reward not more " I own and want to make sure I own you as long as possible"  BS.

Edited October 27, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Bob Sacamano]

14 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

He should. Not many teams are playing service time games anymore And a team that's supposed to be a contender absolutely shouldn't be playing those games any way.

He's a good fielder . He left handed he hits for power. I thought he should've been up at the end of last year to get acclimated to RF at home and to get some experience in a pennant race.

Other's disagreed siting service time of course. Backwards thinking. It's better he get some growing pains out of the way in a season that was going down the tubes or at worst desperately needed defensive and offensive help from the left side and in RF.

So the Sox either feel he wasn't ready or they wanted to wait til May w/e it is to get as much time from him as possible while sacrificing wins .

Sox usually don't so I sort of expect him on the roster day 1. If that is the case, then it was dumb not to call him up this August.

Don't mind if they do wait the couple weeks considering it's like what, 15 games? Still annoyed they didn't just keep Vaughn down considering he played like 5-6 games in those few weeks needed anyway.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Bob Sacamano

[pcq]

4 hours ago, tray said:

Here is the downside to trading Eloy and Moncada and relying on Colas to start in RF and Robert in CF:

Robert is"injury prone,",,,His  hand/wrist injuries seem related and if so, there  a risk of re-injury.

Colas might be the next Dayan Viciedo.  Looks like a tank in the videos.

Vaughn (another tank)  is the most over-hyped, over rated WSox player since Brian Anderson.

The return for Eloy and Moncada might be underwhelming.

Then be careful what you wish for trading core players.

Eloy might pump 40+ HR for the Yanks. Makes sense for them if they want to start replacing Judge's 62.

Moncada LH power might play well in Yankee stadium while Burger looks like he has his shoe laces tied together when fielding balls at third base.

Vaughn's 2022 season might prove to be the best of his career.

Sox need pitching. starters and bullpen. There are no injury proof players that will make a difference.

Robert appears to be a less successful version of Buxton. Drafting a tubby clod like Burger is a mind bender. God knows what they were thinking. At least Vaughn can hit. 

[pcq]

16 minutes ago, pcq said:

Robert appears to be a less successful version of Buxton. Drafting a tubby clod like Burger is a mind bender. God knows what they were thinking. At least Vaughn can hit. 

Colas was a beast this year. Place your bets. 

[The Kids Can Play]

Hopefully the new manager will simply sit Eloy down and have a positive meeting with him to educate him on the big overall team picture/goal to be a full time DH for the following reasons:

 

1. Playing left field is a huge liability to the team success because Eloy is a slow and poor defensive left fielder.

2. Playing left field versus DH, significantly raises the chance of him getting injured more often and being on the IL...which is a huge loss to the offense of the Sox.

3. Eloy needs drop the ego with his delusional idea that he is a top end competent left fielder. He needs mature and grow up and play where the manager feels he is most useful and needed.

Sorry Eloy, but "the inmates don't run the asylum!"

 

[flavum]

Eloy- let me show you David Ortiz’s stats including how much money he made. This is you. Learn to enjoy it. 

[Highland]

I do think it is ridiculous that a player Eloy's age cannot play in the field. That he would be the full-time DH would limit the flexibility of that position. I know he got hurt playing left, but he also got hurt running to first. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

19 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Sox usually don't so I sort of expect him on the roster day 1. If that is the case, then it was dumb not to call him up this August.

Don't mind if they do wait the couple weeks considering it's like what, 15 games? Still annoyed they didn't just keep Vaughn down considering he played like 5-6 games in those few weeks needed anyway.

I mind because he could be a special player. He'll probably struggle with K's and walks.  I think he'll have a much better 1st year than Vaughn did because he is LH and won't be facing same handed pitchers the majority of the time like Vaughn did.

You also don't have to take him out for defensive reasons or pinch hit for him against LHP. Once he's in the game he's in it til the end. It would also be nice to see at least one of our OF's piling up some assists and making base runners respect his arm.

[ChiSox59]

16 hours ago, pcq said:

Robert appears to be a less successful version of Buxton. Drafting a tubby clod like Burger is a mind bender. God knows what they were thinking. At least Vaughn can hit. 

Buxton has a career wRC+ of 106.  Robert 122.  Buxton didn't eclipse 100 until his 4th full season in the big leagues.  Buxton didn't have a single season above Robert's career average 122 wRC+ until 2021, his 7th season in the big leagues.  At this point in his career, Robert is measurably better offensive weapon than Buxton was

Robert has the ability to play above average CF, though he certainly didn't in 21 and 22, and Buxton is probably one of the best CF on the planet.  So that side of things I will give you. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, Highland said:

I do think it is ridiculous that a player Eloy's age cannot play in the field. That he would be the full-time DH would limit the flexibility of that position. I know he got hurt playing left, but he also got hurt running to first. 

DH isn't a position that needs flexibility. It needs a very good hitter. The OF needs better defense. The lineup needs another LHH and LF is a place for one. The Sox have been screwing around with terrible fielders in the OF for way too long pretending like defense or lineup balance doesn't matter . That's s%*# team building for a team that kept talking about multiple championships and a long window.

Eloy is what he is. If he's ever going to get close to his full potential it'll have to be as a DH. I'm sick of seeing shorts bursts of it. Stay on the field and show me a full season of it.

[WilliamTell]

I wouldn't mind them looking into trading Eloy after his great second half but assuming he's on the team, most of his at bats need to be at DH. Pollock more than likely will be here next year so he'll be playing the majority of LF if all goes well. My rough guess for Eloy is 70 games DH, 40 games LF, 52 games IL or off day.

[pcq]

20 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

He should. Not many teams are playing service time games anymore And a team that's supposed to be a contender absolutely shouldn't be playing those games any way.

He's a good fielder . He left handed he hits for power. I thought he should've been up at the end of last year to get acclimated to RF at home and to get some experience in a pennant race.

Other's disagreed siting service time of course. Backwards thinking. It's better he get some growing pains out of the way in a season that was going down the tubes or at worst desperately needed defensive and offensive help from the left side and in RF.

So the Sox either feel he wasn't ready or they wanted to wait til May w/e it is to get as much time from him as possible while sacrificing wins .

If you want guys to have 150 game seasons it's best to call them up and let them play and contribute as soon as they can. He's already 24 why f*** with him? He's already lost too much much developmental time to going from Cuba to Japan and to the US. It's fairly amazing he got his act together in one year in the states. He deserves a reward not more " I own and want to make sure I own you as long as possible"  BS.

Considering the time lost and starting the season in A ball, Oscar deserves to be on the big league roster in light of his performance. They still need to acquire another good LH bat and also hope that Yo rebounds from his injuries. I have no expectations for Grandal and would rather clear that spot for a healthy catcher.

[Balta1701]

54 minutes ago, pcq said:

Considering the time lost and starting the season in A ball, Oscar deserves to be on the big league roster in light of his performance. They still need to acquire another good LH bat and also hope that Yo rebounds from his injuries. I have no expectations for Grandal and would rather clear that spot for a healthy catcher.

Other people have said this so this is not an original idea. Oscar breaking camp with the big league team in 2023, after not getting a shot in the big leagues down the stretch in 2022 when he had at least established himself as past the level of AA talent and the team kept telling itself it was competitive despite their corner outfield spots being a complete trainwreck...would definitely be a questionable decision. 

[tray]

22 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The last two seasons Eloy has played 139 of 324 possible games. Luis Robert has played in 166.  If Luis is "injury prone", what does that make a guy who has played 20% less games the last two years?  Someone else already took care of the Vaughn fallacy, so that one is safe.

The games played stat  is really meaningless. It ignores the nature and reasons for the injuries and several games where Eloy and/or Robert played but probably shouldn't have. My concern moving forward would be Eloy's hamstring which was surgically repaired and caused him to miss games when he returned and Robert's wrist injury, which he had an earlier surgical procedure on and could not swing the bat during the last few weeks of the season.

Vaughn is good hitter but after 1024 major league plate appearances over two years, he has hit .255 with 32 HR. He has a lot of singles over that time but he is emphatically slow on the bases.   In my opinion, he is not as good as Abreu at knocking in runs in clutch situations. I just don't understand why some fans think this guy is un-tradeable. He is a good hitter and an average fielder, but he hasn't proven to be much more than that to this point. If the Sox received a good offer for him, I would trade him and try to add some speed to the line-up. A player with speed and OBP like Kwan that  gets walks and hits singles, but turns many into doubles after stealing second would be great, especially with the rule changes in effect next year (bigger bases, time limit between pitches, max pick-off attempts). Vaughn is much shorter than Eloy or Sheets and slower in the OF.  I like all of these players, but none of them should be off-limits in a trade.

[pcq]

5 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Buxton has a career wRC+ of 106.  Robert 122.  Buxton didn't eclipse 100 until his 4th full season in the big leagues.  Buxton didn't have a single season above Robert's career average 122 wRC+ until 2021, his 7th season in the big leagues.  At this point in his career, Robert is measurably better offensive weapon than Buxton was

Robert has the ability to play above average CF, though he certainly didn't in 21 and 22, and Buxton is probably one of the best CF on the planet.  So that side of things I will give you. 

I hope for the best but expect the worst. 

[ChiSox59]

26 minutes ago, pcq said:

I hope for the best but expect the worst. 

Ok. Just pointing out your observation was factually incorrect, by a fairly substantial margin. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by ChiSox59

[kitekrazy]

On 10/27/2022 at 5:07 PM, pcq said:

Robert appears to be a less successful version of Buxton. Drafting a tubby clod like Burger is a mind bender. God knows what they were thinking. At least Vaughn can hit. 

Unfortunately that's the only thing the Sox think about.   I don't consider Vaughn was a wise pick either.  Burger had too many injuries to play a solid 3B.  He fits that revolving door of never ending 1B/DH.    

[Balta1701]

15 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Unfortunately that's the only thing the Sox think about.   I don't consider Vaughn was a wise pick either.  Burger had too many injuries to play a solid 3B.  He fits that revolving door of never ending 1B/DH.    

The reason that there was a revolving door of DHs is that the White Sox have been terrible at finding them since the idea of having Kotsay there led them to let Tony walk.  They haven’t had anyone good enough with the bat to fill that spot since. Vaughn could well still be a solid pick if his bat improves, they clearly need offense right now.

[Sarava]

If memory serves me right, the Sox picked 11th when they took Burger, and there was considered a large drop-off  after the 10th pick.

[Balta1701]

11 hours ago, Sarava said:

If memory serves me right, the Sox picked 11th when they took Burger, and there was considered a large drop-off  after the 10th pick.

The guy drafted immediately after him, Shane Baz, was ranked as the 8th best prospect in baseball coming into the year by BP and Baseball America and 12th by MLB.com. Played in the 2021 Futures Game.

[Ozzie’s Cuban Cigar]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

The guy drafted immediately after him, Shane Baz, was ranked as the 8th best prospect in baseball coming into the year by BP and Baseball America and 12th by MLB.com. Played in the 2021 Futures Game.

And now needs TJ surgery

[The Mighty Mite]

On 10/28/2022 at 3:08 PM, tray said:

The games played stat  is really meaningless. It ignores the nature and reasons for the injuries and several games where Eloy and/or Robert played but probably shouldn't have. My concern moving forward would be Eloy's hamstring which was surgically repaired and caused him to miss games when he returned and Robert's wrist injury, which he had an earlier surgical procedure on and could not swing the bat during the last few weeks of the season.

Vaughn is good hitter but after 1024 major league plate appearances over two years, he has hit .255 with 32 HR. He has a lot of singles over that time but he is emphatically slow on the bases.   In my opinion, he is not as good as Abreu at knocking in runs in clutch situations. I just don't understand why some fans think this guy is un-tradeable. He is a good hitter and an average fielder, but he hasn't proven to be much more than that to this point. If the Sox received a good offer for him, I would trade him and try to add some speed to the line-up. A player with speed and OBP like Kwan that  gets walks and hits singles, but turns many into doubles after stealing second would be great, especially with the rule changes in effect next year (bigger bases, time limit between pitches, max pick-off attempts). Vaughn is much shorter than Eloy or Sheets and slower in the OF.  I like all of these players, but none of them should be off-limits in a trade.

Vaughn in both of his first 2 years has had poor second halfs, maybe he needs to get in better shape. I like Andrew but I don't see him being as productive as Abreu, in fact I think the Sox should hang on to Abreu for another year and maybe an option year.

[pcq]

Yo trained hard last winter and I wonder if it could have caused his lat issues affecting his swing. 

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, pcq said:

Yo trained hard last winter and I wonder if it could have caused his lat issues affecting his swing. 

That wouldn't affect his sprint speed or ability to run to first without getting hurt though.

And "oh his lat is sore the whole year and his hamstring is constantly injured the whole year and neither of these will be solved by spending a month on the IL" is a pretty worrisome place to be. Probably shouldn't be able to get to that by training too hard.