Where will Eloy play in 23?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, Sarava said:

I'll defend the Sox on this one. A-ball to MLB in one season would be a ridiculous jump and probably irresponsible handling of Colas. If they do that and it fails, then we all bash them for rushing and ruining their prized prospect. Colas could come up here and go 1 for 47 with 28 strikeouts. Then what?

I'm on board with the idea of letting him earn a spot in spring training. Call Pollock the starter for now (assuming he chooses to come back) and if Colas takes the job from him at some point, then awesome. And the Sox still need to fill the other corner outfield spot.

I can't understand how anyone would defend the Sox on their evaluations and development of any talent under their wings.

Obviously Colas had to start somewhere in the system to shake off the rust which is why his A+ numbers weren't as good as his AA numbers and he spent a lot of time there. Perhaps too much time.

I would understand your defense much better if you were talking about some fresh faced 19-21 who had been through the system and tore up lower levels and started the year @ A+. Here you had a seasoned guy who had already played in the Japanese majors. He traveled a long road to finally get his shot in the states.

 I know it's water under the bridge at this point . We are all so paranoid about ruining prospects that when special ones come along you get ultraconservative on handling them. I never think it's a good idea to imagine worst case scenarios like you did. We do that all the time because we are used to seeing worst case scenarios happen with guys  like Eloy, Moncada, Kopech, Crochet, Robert mainly because of injuries . We expect our prospects to fail. Early in Cease's career there were many doubters here. Easy to say prospects won't make it . The odds are with you in that respect. The hard thing to do is to predict success when it comes to Sox prospects because we know they aren't renowned for developing their talent.

I remember Spring Training last year. I kept looking forward to hearing about Colas in some games and he had like 1 or 2 AB in ST and I was wondering why . Did he get hurt ? Didn't seem like it. Maybe it was because he was just so rusty at the time.

He's made some big adjustments along the way from Cuba to Japan to the states and from  A+ to AAA. A lot of guys with lesser talent surrounded by  cultures foreign to him , being homesick etc. would have wilted under the physical and mental strain.

If he was some college player and highly drafted or progressed through a system from the lowest level of the minors, he would've easily been in the top 20 prospects instead of the number 96 prospect. But even the guys who do the rankings got on board but it took them a few months after seeing how Colas ripped apart AA before he got that ranking.

Edited November 6, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yup, I think you start the season with Pollock as the “starter” in LF and then quickly pivot to Colas if/when things go off the rails.  Definitely need to add a LH corner OF who is capable of playing RF in this hypothetical.

Why can't Colas just be that LH RF from the start ? If you bring in another OF who hits LH ,stick him in LF and Pollock is your bench guy. It makes no sense for Colas to sit against LHP because he can hit them .

Why wait for things to go off the rails ? Haven't we seen enough of going off the rails from Sox FO, TLR and players performance and injuries in the last 1.5 years to last a lifetime ?

Imagine how truly bad the Sox might've been without the "lucky" acquisition of Cueto after the Lynn injury. Cease and Vaughn were the 2 young stars who improved from the previous year. Kopech got into the rotation and had the usual ups and downs of a 1st year starter just as I predicted much to the chagrin of those who shouted from the rooftops that we didn't need Rodon because Kopech would replace him.

[Sarava]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I can't understand how anyone would defend the Sox on their evaluations and development of any talent under their wings.

Obviously Colas had to start somewhere in the system to shake off the rust which is why his A+ numbers weren't as good as his AA numbers and he spent a lot of time there. Perhaps too much time.

I would understand your defense much better if you were talking about some fresh faced 19-21 who had been through the system and tore up lower levels and started the year @ A+. Here you had a seasoned guy who had already played in the Japanese majors. He traveled a long road to finally get his shot in the states.

 I know it's water under the bridge at this point . We are all so paranoid about ruining prospects that when special ones come along you get ultraconservative on handling them. I never think it's a good idea to imagine worst case scenarios like you did. We do that all the time because we are used to seeing worst case scenarios happen with guys  like Eloy, Moncada, Kopech, Crochet, Robert mainly because of injuries . We expect our prospects to fail. Early in Cease's career there were many doubters here. Easy to say prospects won't make it . The odds are with you in that respect. The hard thing to do is to predict success when it comes to Sox prospects because we know they aren't renowned for developing their talent.

I remember Spring Training last year. I kept looking forward to hearing about Colas in some games and he had like 1 or 2 AB in ST and I was wondering why . Did he get hurt ? Didn't seem like it. Maybe it was because he was just so rusty at the time.

He's made some big adjustments along the way from Cuba to Japan to the states and from  A+ to AAA. A lot of guys with lesser talent surrounded by  cultures foreign to him , being homesick etc. would have wilted under the physical and mental strain.

If he was some college player and highly drafted or progressed through a system from the lowest level of the minors, he would've easily been in the top 20 prospects instead of the number 96 prospect. But even the guys who do the rankings got on board but it took them a few months after seeing how Colas ripped apart AA before he got that ranking.

Ultraconservative? Come on man. The dude was experiencing a new country and culture while he basted his way through 3 leagues. He has got to be feeling great about himself and his future heading in to 2023. It's absurd and reckless to suggest he should have been pushed to do even more than that IMO.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 hours ago, Sarava said:

Ultraconservative? Come on man. The dude was experiencing a new country and culture while he basted his way through 3 leagues. He has got to be feeling great about himself and his future heading in to 2023. It's absurd and reckless to suggest he should have been pushed to do even more than that IMO.

If he was feeling so good about himself why did he have that twitter outburst. I tried to find more about it but I must be googling the wrong thing. As I recall he said something about being a slave.

ahh here it is :

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Chicago White Sox]

6 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Assuming they let Engel go, who is the backup OF to start the season in this setup? Leury?

Payton

[Chicago White Sox]

4 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Why can't Colas just be that LH RF from the start ? If you bring in another OF who hits LH ,stick him in LF and Pollock is your bench guy. It makes no sense for Colas to sit against LHP because he can hit them .

Why wait for things to go off the rails ? Haven't we seen enough of going off the rails from Sox FO, TLR and players performance and injuries in the last 1.5 years to last a lifetime ?

Imagine how truly bad the Sox might've been without the "lucky" acquisition of Cueto after the Lynn injury. Cease and Vaughn were the 2 young stars who improved from the previous year. Kopech got into the rotation and had the usual ups and downs of a 1st year starter just as I predicted much to the chagrin of those who shouted from the rooftops that we didn't need Rodon because Kopech would replace him.

I mean, the idea is you are trying to gain an extra year of control.  That’s worth 15 games of Pollock as your LF.  Should have done the same with Vaughn.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Chicago White Sox

[Balta1701]

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Payton

It’s baseball so stranger things have worked out, but if we have an outfield of Sheets, Payton, and Leury for a game I don’t want to hear how astonishing it is.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

It’s baseball so stranger things have worked out, but if we have an outfield of Sheets, Payton, and Leury for a game I don’t want to hear how astonishing it is.

Not sure I follow.  My point is the starting OF for the first 15 games should be Pollock, Robert, & some free agent.  If someone important gets injured, then Colas is an opening day starter by default.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I mean, the idea is you are trying to gain an extra year of control.  That’s worth 15 games of Pollock as your LF.  Should have done the same with Vaughn.

I don't believe in doing that. What's more important right now ,winning games and keeping your potential superstar happy or 2029 ? . Just a question I don't actually know the answer to yet , did the Astros play the service time game with Jeremy Pena ?

Edited November 7, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Payton

You actually want to win games ? You do realize the Sox have been a .500 team for 1.5 years right ?

[SoxBlanco]

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Just a question I don't actually know the answer to yet , did the Astros play the service time game with Jeremy Pena ?

No, but they did with Springer in 2014. 

[Bob Sacamano]

10 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

No, but they did with Springer in 2014. 

I’m sure there’s more than that.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Bob Sacamano

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You actually want to win games ? You do realize the Sox have been a .500 team for 1.5 years right ?

We wasted a year of potential service time with Vaughn for like 12 total plate appearances.  I get a new manager will play the young guys more right out of the gate, but I’m not losing a year of control of Colas for what will be less than 15 games with days off.  How many more games do the Sox win with Oscar starting over Pollock during this stretch?

Edited November 7, 2022 by Chicago White Sox

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We wasted a year of potential service time with Vaughn for like 12 total plate appearances.  I get a new manager will play the young guys more right out of the gate, but I’m not losing a year of control of Colas for what will be less than 15 games with days off.  How many more games do the Sox win with Oscar starting over Pollock during this stretch?

When you are .500 for 1.5 years the window is either over or it isn't. If you think it's over fine, 15 games is nothing. If you think the Sox can make enough changes to contend again for the Central when their budget might not allow for changes and you get rid of Abreu, your guy who is consistently on the field and usually your best player, your offense is going to need all the help it can get.

All this we can afford a extra loss talk  or 2 or 3 or whatever playing inferior talent and sacrificing offense and defense doesn't fly with me. Pollock can't hit RHP and is going to be 35 soon. Grandal ,Robert , Eloy , Anderson Moncada  aren't we usually losing enough games from them with injuries and you want to sacrifice even more games ? No. Who's going to replace the wins Cueto gave us ? You're looking at a lot of games headed to the loss column already when these things occur if Abreu is gone, Gio doesn't recover, Cueto gone, Andrus gone, Pollock sucking and aging. Hendriks another year older locked into Kelly and Diekman and more than likely doing little in the off season to improve.

Edited November 7, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Exactly that's the year they were 18 games under .500. When you want to win games you don't do it. Every game matters to winning organizations ! Players miss enough games with injuries , deaths and births in their families, dizzy spells, viruses, tripping over bases.