2023 MLB offseason signings and rumors thread

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, fathom said:

Troll, check the name out 

Apparently he has an OK record. 

[chw42]

9 minutes ago, fathom said:

Troll, check the name out 

This guy shoulda paid for Twitter Blue for more credibility. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

One of the Sox podcast had a Anderson + for Albies trade (trade simulator) and I can't say that I'd hate it.  Anderson has 2 years left, Albies has 5 years at 7 mil per.

[southsider2k5]

 

[Dick Allen]

I suspect the 2023 ball will be juiced a little more than 2022.

[fathom]

4 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

One of the Sox podcast had a Anderson + for Albies trade (trade simulator) and I can't say that I'd hate it.  Anderson has 2 years left, Albies has 5 years at 7 mil per.

Also, Jesse Rogers wondered in that ESPN article if any teams would go after Timmy if they miss out on the big 4 SS

[maxjusttyped]

Trading 5 years of a good player (Albies) for 2 years of a good player (TA) doesn't make much sense from the Braves perspective, but I'd be all for it

[chw42]

2 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Trading 5 years of a good player (Albies) for 2 years of a good player (TA) doesn't make much sense from the Braves perspective, but I'd be all for it

That Albies contract is insanely cheap. 

[maxjusttyped]

Just now, chw42 said:

That Albies contract is insanely cheap. 

His agent allowing him to sign that contract is disgraceful, honestly. There are club friendly extensions and then there's whatever the hell Albies signed.

[ChiSox59]

9 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

His agent allowing him to sign that contract is disgraceful, honestly. There are club friendly extensions and then there's whatever the hell Albies signed.

I’d kinda hate to use the TA bullet on Albies. I’d much rather see the Sox actually sign some legit FAs and try to win, but if that’s not in the cards, I am leaning more and more towards selling our expiring assets and doing a reset. It’s so tough to swallow that pill because the division is so winnable the next couple years but Sox could do really really well selling TA, Giolito, Lynn, Hendriks, Graveman, Bummer. Of course it’s punting 2023, but could get some really interesting guys to pair with the remainder of the core in 2024. I feel really dirty having typed that, but if the payroll is maxed at $180M that’s probably the best play. 

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I’d kinda hate to use the TA bullet on Albies. I’d much rather see the Sox actually sign some legit FAs and try to win, but if that’s not in the cards, I am leaning more and more towards selling our expiring assets and doing a reset. It’s so tough to swallow that pill because the division is so winnable the next couple years but Sox could do really really well selling TA, Giolito, Lynn, Hendriks, Graveman, Bummer. Of course it’s punting 2023, but could get some really interesting guys to pair with the remainder of the core in 2024. I feel really dirty having typed that, but if the payroll is maxed at $180M that’s probably the best play. 

I get the concept. Here's what I think is the toughest question - out of the list of names you just gave, is there any guy who doesn't have an obvious path to being worth more at the trade deadline than now?

TA - stay healthy in the first half, better focus, just perform like he did in 2021. Multiple big name FA shortstops might depress the market in the offseason (See Correa getting caught at the end of the market in 2021).
Giolito - couple of injuries, COVID, down spin rate and velocity. Just perform like he did in 2021. 
Lynn - Coming off injured year and being rushed back to big league team clearly affected him early, stay healthy, perform closer to 2021. If off to a good start, his option year could look more valuable. 
Hendriks - stay healthy for the first half. Relievers often are worth more at the deadline than in the offseason.
Graveman - coming off bad second half. Stay healthy and have a strong first half, reliever worth more at deadline?
Bummer - coming off bad and banged up year. Stay healthy and strong first half, and count on good reliever prices again.

If I was trying to revamp this thing as quickly as I could, I think there's a strong case for waiting until the trade deadline for most of those guys. Consistently coming off down seasons, hard to see them returning so much now that it's not worth taking the chance on a better return at the deadline. 2 of those guys stay healthy and have strong first halves and it feels like that alone would make up for the value they could get by cashing guys in now. 

[ChiSox59]

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I get the concept. Here's what I think is the toughest question - out of the list of names you just gave, is there any guy who doesn't have an obvious path to being worth more at the trade deadline than now?

TA - stay healthy in the first half, better focus, just perform like he did in 2021. Multiple big name FA shortstops might depress the market in the offseason (See Correa getting caught at the end of the market in 2021).
Giolito - couple of injuries, COVID, down spin rate and velocity. Just perform like he did in 2021. 
Lynn - Coming off injured year and being rushed back to big league team clearly affected him early, stay healthy, perform closer to 2021. If off to a good start, his option year could look more valuable. 
Hendriks - stay healthy for the first half. Relievers often are worth more at the deadline than in the offseason.
Graveman - coming off bad second half. Stay healthy and have a strong first half, reliever worth more at deadline?
Bummer - coming off bad and banged up year. Stay healthy and strong first half, and count on good reliever prices again.

If I was trying to revamp this thing as quickly as I could, I think there's a strong case for waiting until the trade deadline for most of those guys. Consistently coming off down seasons, hard to see them returning so much now that it's not worth taking the chance on a better return at the deadline. 2 of those guys stay healthy and have strong first halves and it feels like that alone would make up for the value they could get by cashing guys in now. 

Also fair. But if the Sox keep all these guys and add on the fringes up to $180M payroll, they're going to be, at worst, in the thick of the ALC race.  They aren't trading those guys in July if they're winning the division or within a reasonable distance.  That's the thing - this team without any major additions is still plenty good enough to win this division, but they aren't good enough to be anything but a playoff underdog story.  

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I get the concept. Here's what I think is the toughest question - out of the list of names you just gave, is there any guy who doesn't have an obvious path to being worth more at the trade deadline than now?

TA - stay healthy in the first half, better focus, just perform like he did in 2021. Multiple big name FA shortstops might depress the market in the offseason (See Correa getting caught at the end of the market in 2021).
Giolito - couple of injuries, COVID, down spin rate and velocity. Just perform like he did in 2021. 
Lynn - Coming off injured year and being rushed back to big league team clearly affected him early, stay healthy, perform closer to 2021. If off to a good start, his option year could look more valuable. 
Hendriks - stay healthy for the first half. Relievers often are worth more at the deadline than in the offseason.
Graveman - coming off bad second half. Stay healthy and have a strong first half, reliever worth more at deadline?
Bummer - coming off bad and banged up year. Stay healthy and strong first half, and count on good reliever prices again.

If I was trying to revamp this thing as quickly as I could, I think there's a strong case for waiting until the trade deadline for most of those guys. Consistently coming off down seasons, hard to see them returning so much now that it's not worth taking the chance on a better return at the deadline. 2 of those guys stay healthy and have strong first halves and it feels like that alone would make up for the value they could get by cashing guys in now. 

I don't believe you will get MLB players at the deadline as teams usually don't like to trade those though, while you could in the offseason. Dealing them for other MLB players would be a "re-tool".  Dealing for prospects another rebuild

[Balta1701]

Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I don't believe you will get MLB players at the deadline as teams usually don't like to trade those though, while you could in the offseason. Dealing them for other MLB players would be a "re-tool".  Dealing for prospects another rebuild

I don't believe you're getting MLB players for any of these guys right now that will somehow make this team better this year than the current guy will. Not one of them, Hendriks included, is going to return a position player or pitcher who will be a major contributor right now that makes this team better in 2023. The format just doesn't make sense - teams are only going to be dealing for guys like that if they think they can compete this year, so why are they going to give up someone who they're counting on to help their big league squad?

Maybe if you double up 2 of them together, you have a format that returns one, but that opens up two holes. Hendriks + Giolito might intrigue someone to the point they give up 1 position player, but now you've weakened the bullpen and you need another starting pitcher too. Maybe you could do Anderson for a starter, but that's pretty much a lateral move at best because now you've created a hole at shortstop. 

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I don't believe you will get MLB players at the deadline as teams usually don't like to trade those though, while you could in the offseason. Dealing them for other MLB players would be a "re-tool".  Dealing for prospects another rebuild

One thing is for sure, the Sox aren't going to rebuild again in JRs lifetime.

 

I do think there probably is too much negativity right now. The Sox couldn't have been any worse and until they got bear at home by Cleveland in September  and fell apart, they were still right there. No LaRussa and a few things go right, they win the division.  But they have to make some good decisions and not operate scared like they almost always do.

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Also fair. But if the Sox keep all these guys and add on the fringes up to $180M payroll, they're going to be, at worst, in the thick of the ALC race.  They aren't trading those guys in July if they're winning the division or within a reasonable distance.  That's the thing - this team without any major additions is still plenty good enough to win this division, but they aren't good enough to be anything but a playoff underdog story.  

So now something bugging me on a different side.

If you think this team is competitive for the playoffs, even if they won't get there but they can get back to the upper 80s in wins and just miss the last wild card spot, isn't that worth it to not sell off right now? 

[ChiSox59]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So now something bugging me on a different side.

If you think this team is competitive for the playoffs, even if they won't get there but they can get back to the upper 80s in wins and just miss the last wild card spot, isn't that worth it to not sell off right now? 

Depends on what you can get for those guys.  I would punt 2023 if it meant we could turn the aforementioned guys into a nice group of players to contribute in 2024 and on, and also help get the team to be a bit more cost controlled.

I don't think this team as currently constructed is good enough to do any damage in the playoffs short of perhaps lucking into a WC series win with HFA from winning the division.  If they decided to acquire Nimmo, a legit SP and something better than Romy/Yolbert/Sosa for 2B, and get bouncebacks from the guys they need to bounceback, they could be very good.  So again, I'd rather see them actually attempt to win.  But if they have a hard budget of $180M, that's going to be very hard to do, and in that scenario, I would explore trading the guys with value that aren't controlled beyond 2023/24. 

I also don't think very highly of the Twins or Guardians.  

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Depends on what you can get for those guys.  I would punt 2023 if it meant we could turn the aforementioned guys into a nice group of players to contribute in 2024 and on, and also help get the team to be a bit more cost controlled.

I don't think this team as currently constructed is good enough to do any damage in the playoffs short of perhaps lucking into a WC series win with HFA from winning the division.  If they decided to acquire Nimmo, a legit SP and something better than Romy/Yolbert/Sosa for 2B, and get bouncebacks from the guys they need to bounceback, they could be very good.  So again, I'd rather see them actually attempt to win.  But if they have a hard budget of $180M, that's going to be very hard to do, and in that scenario, I would explore trading the guys with value that aren't controlled beyond 2023/24. 

I also don't think very highly of the Twins or Guardians.  

Don't underestimate Cleveland again. 

[ChiSox59]

19 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Don't underestimate Cleveland again. 

Ehh.  My estimations are irrelevant.  They played really good and inspired baseball the 2nd half.  They have a player much better than anyone we have and rock solid pitching.  The rest of the position player core outside of Gimenez is pretty meh. 

I'd wager a guess they don't win over 85 games in 2023.  

Edited November 22, 2022 by ChiSox59

[Snopek]

Just wanted to say I’ve enjoyed the back and forth of these last handful of posts. Every point and counterpoint is well thought out where I’ve found myself agreeing with both sides ?‍♂️

[joejoesox]

is this the poorest built $180+ million team ever

I'm sure someone will pick a Yankees or red Sox team but this one is pretty meh

 

 

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

is this the poorest built $180+ million team ever

I'm sure someone will pick a Yankees or red Sox team but this one is pretty meh

 

 

$173 million for the 69 win 2012 Red Sox has to be a strong contender any time that is looked at. $190 million for the 64 win 2017 Detroit Tigers. 

[hi8is]

7 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

One of the Sox podcast had a Anderson + for Albies trade (trade simulator) and I can't say that I'd hate it.  Anderson has 2 years left, Albies has 5 years at 7 mil per.

Why the f*** would the Braves do that?

[bear_brian]

Braves losing Swanson. Have Grissom already in place for Albies. Makes more sense for them than it does for us.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't believe you're getting MLB players for any of these guys right now that will somehow make this team better this year than the current guy will. Not one of them, Hendriks included, is going to return a position player or pitcher who will be a major contributor right now that makes this team better in 2023. The format just doesn't make sense - teams are only going to be dealing for guys like that if they think they can compete this year, so why are they going to give up someone who they're counting on to help their big league squad?

Maybe if you double up 2 of them together, you have a format that returns one, but that opens up two holes. Hendriks + Giolito might intrigue someone to the point they give up 1 position player, but now you've weakened the bullpen and you need another starting pitcher too. Maybe you could do Anderson for a starter, but that's pretty much a lateral move at best because now you've created a hole at shortstop. 

A lot of things have to go right to make the Sox capable of winning the division but my whole point of going after young OFers and playing Colas is mainly to improve OF defense and speed. Some strong 2+ WAR seasons can be built mainly on defense with speed and strong armed OFs . We all witnessed Eaton's high WAR year when he was piling up assists. Colas, Outman, Acquino all have rifles. Not  sure about Garrett's arm. Outman and Garrett have good speed. Colas has enough speed to play CF fine as does Outman and Garrett. It would be an improvement on the fringes just to start with a long with depth and versatility. If one breaks out and gives you the power they all possess now you really have something . If 2 do well enough offensively it's huge. Now you have a good offensive and defensive OF with speed on the basepaths.

The only area I'm subtracting from is Hendricks from the BP. We become a more attractive team to pitchers with better OF defense.

We'll still be depending on the core for health and production but any scenario that has the Sox improving to 90+ wins is going to need that anyway.

Last year was bad defense, poor health, bad base running, slow players,poor power, bad FO , bad manager and poor seasons and the Sox still played . 500. I know many dislike the idea of relying on acquiring unproven mid  20s OFs but they have the skills to help in areas that need fixing at the very least, speed, defense, depth, and OF versatility so Leury doesn't get shoved into a prominent role in the OF at any point and with a shot at some LH savagery. And they are all MLB ready.

Trading Hendricks will free up some money to throw at the pitching staff. So I do agree that the rest of them aren't worth trading now. We've rode them this far out of position and unhealthy and just plain bad. Perhaps if they are surrounded by some youthful energy with guys thrilled to be given a shot it can rub off. It helps tremendously having players making plays . It brings a level of excitement to the team when you have athletic guys making great catches throwing out base runners and stealing bases. This is what the new rules are encouraging. Why not infuse the team with those types of OFers who also happen to have quick bats and power too. It would be a much different exciting team instead of the plodding defensive mess we've been seeing in the OF and on the bases.