2023 MLB offseason signings and rumors thread

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Great. Sox aren’t signing s%*#.

[chw42]

1 minute ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Great. Sox aren’t signing s%*#.

I get the feeling that premium relievers are gonna cost a lot because of the lack of them in free agency. So I wouldn't take the deals signed by Diaz, Montero, and Suarez as a barometer for future deals at every position. However, I do think left handed bats will end up costing more since they won't get extreme shifted on anymore. That's probably gonna result in a 20-30 point batting average uptick for most left handed hitters out there. 

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

2 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I get the feeling that premium relievers are gonna cost a lot because of the lack of them in free agency. So I wouldn't take the deals signed by Diaz, Montero, and Suarez as a barometer for future deals at every position. However, I do think left handed bats will end up costing more since they won't get extreme shifted on anymore. That's probably gonna result in a 20-30 point batting average uptick for most left handed hitters out there. 

But having these lucrative deals right off the bat is going to help out those mediocre arms out there. They aren’t going to discount themselves if non-closers are getting the money Suarez got.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

But having these lucrative deals right off the bat is going to help out those mediocre arms out there. They aren’t going to discount themselves if non-closers are getting the money Suarez got.

They could probably snag Boxberger for less than $3M, what his option was that the Brewers declined. Not a high leverage guy but another cheap veteran arm.

[he gone.]

4 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I get the feeling that premium relievers are gonna cost a lot because of the lack of them in free agency. So I wouldn't take the deals signed by Diaz, Montero, and Suarez as a barometer for future deals at every position. However, I do think left handed bats will end up costing more since they won't get extreme shifted on anymore. That's probably gonna result in a 20-30 point batting average uptick for most left handed hitters out there. 

Which is exactly why i think you'll see grandal's name pop up more. People think I was/am crazy that we'd be able to trade him coming off his season. but if you look at the position, particularly on some of the top teams, they could use a catcher. you get a vet on a one year deal, left handed bat and someone who was constantly shifted against. (all the reasons i think he'll have a bounce back year). But i digress. I can totally see the sox offloading yaz to keep more money in JR pockets. Same with Joe Kelly. both are "terrible contracts" in sox fans minds, but think are basically market value and would probably be able to just offload onto a team. Of course, it doesn't make the 2023 sox better, it just keeps JR happy that he gets to keep his money. 

[chw42]

6 minutes ago, he gone. said:

Which is exactly why i think you'll see grandal's name pop up more. People think I was/am crazy that we'd be able to trade him coming off his season. but if you look at the position, particularly on some of the top teams, they could use a catcher. you get a vet on a one year deal, left handed bat and someone who was constantly shifted against. (all the reasons i think he'll have a bounce back year). But i digress. I can totally see the sox offloading yaz to keep more money in JR pockets. Same with Joe Kelly. both are "terrible contracts" in sox fans minds, but think are basically market value and would probably be able to just offload onto a team. Of course, it doesn't make the 2023 sox better, it just keeps JR happy that he gets to keep his money. 

Grandal's issue isn't that he wasn't getting singles that he should have gotten, his issue was that he was no longer hitting the ball with any real authority. Getting 10 more singles would have made him a .230 hitter last year with a .300 slugging. That's not worth much of anything. 

[chw42]

12 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

But having these lucrative deals right off the bat is going to help out those mediocre arms out there. They aren’t going to discount themselves if non-closers are getting the money Suarez got.

Jansen and Taylor Rodgers probably get good money on their deals, but the drop off after them is huge. Is anyone really gonna pay Kimbrel a multi-year deal? Chapman? Those guys are both older and coming off terrible years. 

[he gone.]

i would just argue that injuries do play an important part in that. I think we all are cognizant of that & a GM would likely use both last years information against his whole career to make a decision. Are his knees and power completely shot, or does he have more left in the tank? I'd think at 18mm on a one year obligation a contending team would take that risk for what he can bring to a table. 

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, he gone. said:

i would just argue that injuries do play an important part in that. I think we all are cognizant of that & a GM would likely use both last years information against his whole career to make a decision. Are his knees and power completely shot, or does he have more left in the tank? I'd think at 18mm on a one year obligation a contending team would take that risk for what he can bring to a table. 

Most of the anti Yaz people here are that way because they were big James McCann fans. I bet the Mets would trade McCann for Yaz straight up right now. No way the YZ decline is entirely age, and like you write it may be the injuries are something he can't overcome, but waiving him makes no sense. No one is going to give you anything but another probably bigger headache for him. Play it out, see how his offseason went. Of course the game is much different now, but a lot of people thought in May of 1983, when he was older than Yaz is now, Carlton Fisk was done. He played another decade after dedicating himself to strengthening his body. Yaz is doing that now. We will see what happens.

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Most of the anti Yaz people here are that way because they were big James McCann fans. I bet the Mets would trade McCann for Yaz straight up right now. No way the YZ decline is entirely age, and like you write it may be the injuries are something he can't overcome, but waiving him makes no sense. No one is going to give you anything but another probably bigger headache for him. Play it out, see how his offseason went. Of course the game is much different now, but a lot of people thought in May of 1983, when he was older than Yaz is now, Carlton Fisk was done. He played another decade after dedicating himself to strengthening his body. Yaz is doing that now. We will see what happens.

Perfect timing.

 

 

[MiddleCoastBias]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Perfect timing.

 

 

Start the clock on when someone writes the first "Best Shape of His Life" puff piece this off-season, Grandal being the early favorite.

[Bob Sacamano]

16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Perfect timing.

 

 

The fluff pieces begin.

[Dick Allen]

12 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

The fluff pieces begin.

Of course. But at least hes try

trying something different and he has enough pride to say 2022 wasn't OK. I certainly wouldn't bet he is going to be what he was in 2021 except for more games. I would think he will be better than 2022, but the question will be is it better enough.  It was pretty shocking to me , and I am a fan of his, how useless he was. But he was pretty valuable the rest of his White Sox career.

[he gone.]

I'll be the first to say it was poor allocation of resources for a small market team like the sox. (don't get sidetracked by the word small market - we are. big market, and even mid market teams don't make budget cuts in a "championship window" - we are the definition of the rays, oakland and cleveland). You shouldn't pour your biggest contract into a catcher on the wrong side of 30. It's a boneheaded allocation of money. Catcher and second base are two positions that need not money. Replacement level and defense are fine for those spots. Which is why i love hahn so much ... he loves to spend in all the wrong places... 

 

Bullpen - paying guys off of good years. It always makes me laugh. Bullpens need a few good arms, after that you're really just searching for the Anthony Swarzaks of the world you can ride cheap and then let $$ hungry teams overpay them to fail. Allocating money there is ill advised.

Catcher - Same. You need a guy who can call a game, frame pitches, and can have occasional pop in his bat. You shouldn't be allocating $18mm/yr unless you're a franchise that is willing to spend

Second base - can't wait for Segura to come along when you have more than enough replacement level options in house. Or even trade prospects for Lowe. Second base is a luxury spot. you don't need a strong arm, you don't need be athletic. you're basically an 8 hole type guy. So of course hahn is obsessed w 2B. Top 5 draft pick, spending FA money, etc. 

Utility - you get basically the same production out of guys like mendick as you do out of our friend Leury. But alas, Mr. Hahn spends. Foolish. 

But here we are. Hahn has basically gone bizarro world on spending/roster construction and now we have no money and our team sucks in the middle of the "championship window"

 

All of that said, I think it'd make sense to give the fluff pieces around Yaz some merit. When you have a career of like what ...8? 10? years and there's one outlier ... i tend to take the larger body of evidence while also being cognizant that he's a catcher and older and sometimes you fall off a cliff. If money isn't a problem, then Yaz isn't a problem. If money is a problem, then Yaz is a problem. 

[ShoeLessRob]

Can’t wait for the inevitable Hahn garbage about underestimating the trade and free agent market. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

17 minutes ago, he gone. said:

I'll be the first to say it was poor allocation of resources for a small market team like the sox. (don't get sidetracked by the word small market - we are. big market, and even mid market teams don't make budget cuts in a "championship window" - we are the definition of the rays, oakland and cleveland). You shouldn't pour your biggest contract into a catcher on the wrong side of 30. It's a boneheaded allocation of money. Catcher and second base are two positions that need not money. Replacement level and defense are fine for those spots. Which is why i love hahn so much ... he loves to spend in all the wrong places... 

 

Bullpen - paying guys off of good years. It always makes me laugh. Bullpens need a few good arms, after that you're really just searching for the Anthony Swarzaks of the world you can ride cheap and then let $$ hungry teams overpay them to fail. Allocating money there is ill advised.

Catcher - Same. You need a guy who can call a game, frame pitches, and can have occasional pop in his bat. You shouldn't be allocating $18mm/yr unless you're a franchise that is willing to spend

Second base - can't wait for Segura to come along when you have more than enough replacement level options in house. Or even trade prospects for Lowe. Second base is a luxury spot. you don't need a strong arm, you don't need be athletic. you're basically an 8 hole type guy. So of course hahn is obsessed w 2B. Top 5 draft pick, spending FA money, etc. 

Utility - you get basically the same production out of guys like mendick as you do out of our friend Leury. But alas, Mr. Hahn spends. Foolish. 

But here we are. Hahn has basically gone bizarro world on spending/roster construction and now we have no money and our team sucks in the middle of the "championship window"

 

All of that said, I think it'd make sense to give the fluff pieces around Yaz some merit. When you have a career of like what ...8? 10? years and there's one outlier ... i tend to take the larger body of evidence while also being cognizant that he's a catcher and older and sometimes you fall off a cliff. If money isn't a problem, then Yaz isn't a problem. If money is a problem, then Yaz is a problem. 

You're not the first the say that bullpen, second base and utility were a poor allocation of resources last year..  You're like the 2,468th

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

You're not the first the say that bullpen, second base and utility were a poor allocation of resources last year..  You're like the 2,468th

And that is just today.

[Tnetennba]

28 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Can’t wait for the inevitable Hahn garbage about underestimating the trade and free agent market. 

The Hahn quotes do really write themselves, don't they.

[Harry Chappas]

49 minutes ago, he gone. said:

I'll be the first to say it was poor allocation of resources for a small market team like the sox. (don't get sidetracked by the word small market - we are. big market, and even mid market teams don't make budget cuts in a "championship window" - we are the definition of the rays, oakland and cleveland). You shouldn't pour your biggest contract into a catcher on the wrong side of 30. It's a boneheaded allocation of money. Catcher and second base are two positions that need not money. Replacement level and defense are fine for those spots. Which is why i love hahn so much ... he loves to spend in all the wrong places... 

 

Bullpen - paying guys off of good years. It always makes me laugh. Bullpens need a few good arms, after that you're really just searching for the Anthony Swarzaks of the world you can ride cheap and then let $$ hungry teams overpay them to fail. Allocating money there is ill advised.

Catcher - Same. You need a guy who can call a game, frame pitches, and can have occasional pop in his bat. You shouldn't be allocating $18mm/yr unless you're a franchise that is willing to spend

Second base - can't wait for Segura to come along when you have more than enough replacement level options in house. Or even trade prospects for Lowe. Second base is a luxury spot. you don't need a strong arm, you don't need be athletic. you're basically an 8 hole type guy. So of course hahn is obsessed w 2B. Top 5 draft pick, spending FA money, etc. 

Utility - you get basically the same production out of guys like mendick as you do out of our friend Leury. But alas, Mr. Hahn spends. Foolish. 

But here we are. Hahn has basically gone bizarro world on spending/roster construction and now we have no money and our team sucks in the middle of the "championship window"

 

All of that said, I think it'd make sense to give the fluff pieces around Yaz some merit. When you have a career of like what ...8? 10? years and there's one outlier ... i tend to take the larger body of evidence while also being cognizant that he's a catcher and older and sometimes you fall off a cliff. If money isn't a problem, then Yaz isn't a problem. If money is a problem, then Yaz is a problem. 

The White Sox are nothing like the Rays, A's or Indians in any aspect good or bad.

Going to be along winter on Soxtalk

[GreenSox]

2 hours ago, chw42 said:

I get the feeling that premium relievers are gonna cost a lot because of the lack of them in free agency. 

Then the Sox should take advantage of the market, hand the ball to Reynaldo and get the haul for Hendriks.

[southsider2k5]

 

[southsider2k5]

 

[Dick Allen]

If Joc Pederson is now an almost $20 million a year guy, are the Machado and Harper contracts total bargains?

[Eminor3rd]

Cubs just released Jason Heyward. 
 

Uh-oh

[maxjusttyped]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

If Joc Pederson is now an almost $20 million a year guy, are the Machado and Harper contracts total bargains?

They always have been.