The State of the Sox...

[southsider2k5]

 

[Balta1701]

I have no idea if this is a fake account these days.

 
 

[Tony]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I have no idea if this is a fake account these days.

 
 

If facts are posted on a “fake account” does it matter? 

[hi8is]

13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I have no idea if this is a fake account these days.

 
 

?

I believe it.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

19 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I have no idea if this is a fake account these days.

 
 

She's a real person - whether she actually hears stuff is another thing all together. I don't recall her ever breaking anything.

[hi8is]

8 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

She's a real person - whether she actually hears stuff is another thing all together. I don't recall her ever breaking anything.

Antiquation and clubhouse drama ain’t nothin new here ???

[Tnetennba]

6 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

She's a real person - whether she actually hears stuff is another thing all together. I don't recall her ever breaking anything.

From what I can tell, she is just a fan posting her opinions.  I can’t recall her ever previously claiming to be in the know.  

[Sleepy Harold]

31 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

From what I can tell, she is just a fan posting her opinions.  I can’t recall her ever previously claiming to be in the know.  

WSD, NBB, and Eloy v Wall all went against that tweet FWIW. 

[The Mighty Mite]

All I know is 2 years were wasted with the hiring of TLR, this might have JR's biggest blunder in his 41 years of his torturous ownership with so many blunders, it's a miracle that there are still White Sox fans around on the planet.

[pcq]

7 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

She's a real person - whether she actually hears stuff is another thing all together. I don't recall her ever breaking anything.

Shawna knows Omar and has an axe to grind after he dumped her for a cabana boy. 

[Middle Buffalo]

30 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

All I know is 2 years were wasted with the hiring of TLR, this might have JR's biggest blunder in his 41 years of his torturous ownership with so many blunders, it's a miracle that there are still White Sox fans around on the planet.

TLR was a disaster, but they still made the playoffs his first season.

Biggest blunder was going to pay tv and dumping Harry Carey not long after buying the team. Lost a generation of fans.

[Highland]

8 minutes ago, Middle Buffalo said:

TLR was a disaster, but they still made the playoffs his first season.

Biggest blunder was going to pay tv and dumping Harry Carey not long after buying the team. Lost a generation of fans.

The team was already in place, and the division was weak. Even LaRussa couldn't blow that one. I have few expectations of this organization. I think it needs to prove itself, and I have bid doubts about that.

[Flash]

On 11/1/2022 at 9:46 PM, Lip Man 1 said:

For the last several weeks I've been working on a story trying to find out what is going on with this organization in an extremely crucial off season. It may be the last chance they have to get the rebuild/contention window right.

The Sox of course are being very tight lipped as per usual, Sox Fest has been cancelled, no chance for anyone to ask the brass any questions... so I went to a half dozen sources who know the organization to try to get a handle on what may be happening. 

If you read the story I describe those sources in general terms but not specifically because I wanted honest answers.

I believe what they've told me on a number of issues. 

I've been a Sox Fan for 62 seasons NO ONE wants this rebuild/contention window to succeed more than I do, but I've got to tell you, based of what I've been told, I think the chances are very slim. This organization simply is "mired in mediocrity" for wont of a better word and in my opinion until new ownership and a new front office is brought in I suspect it will be more of "one step forward, two steps back..."

But we'll see.

Here is the link to the story: 

https://www.wsiforumstoo.com/74118-the-state-of-the-sox

 

 

Is there hope? 

“It could happen, maybe there’s a 5% chance this front office could get it right. But first the front office has to admit they made mistakes. The catcher (Yamani Grandal), third baseman (Moncada) and shortstop (Tim Anderson) need to go. They need to get guys with a higher baseball acumen, the lack of urgency, the way they beat themselves this season was embarrassing. Anderson needs to go because the organization gave him the keys to the car and he drove it off the cliff. And he’s getting up in years (Author’s Note: Anderson will turn 30 this season), get something for him while you can, some talented young players. The organization also needs a major off season from the scouts, they have to find guys they can buy low on with a good upside and hope they produce.”

 

Great article and my sentiments exactly. You can toss in Giolito as trade bait. 

[The Mighty Mite]

2 hours ago, Middle Buffalo said:

TLR was a disaster, but they still made the playoffs his first season.

Biggest blunder was going to pay tv and dumping Harry Carey not long after buying the team. Lost a generation of fans.

Harry dumped JR and company, he wanted no part of Sportsvision, he knew that Sportsvision was not going go over big in Chicago as the Cubs were on free TV for 162 games. In the one year he did work for JR and EE he came to realize that those 2 guys were jerks and got out and the rest his history as Harry became a household name across the country on Superstation WGN.

[pcq]

Yet pay tv is what we ended up with. No way to avoid it. 

[Lip Man 1]

18 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Harry dumped JR and company, he wanted no part of Sportsvision, he knew that Sportsvision was not going go over big in Chicago as the Cubs were on free TV for 162 games. In the one year he did work for JR and EE he came to realize that those 2 guys were jerks and got out and the rest his history as Harry became a household name across the country on Superstation WGN.

I did a detailed history of SportsVision and am writing the chapter on it for Dr. Fletcher's next book. Just FYI, the Sox actually offered Harry more money to stay with the team for the 1982 season than the Cubs did, but Harry wanted no part of Sportsvision nor the owners.

Committing "Harry Caray" 

But one more problem developed because of the SportsVision idea which had long term negative effects towards the Sox. That involved popular announcer Harry Caray. Caray had been with the Sox since 1971 and had developed a tremendous following. In many desolate years Caray was the only reason to pay any attention to the Sox. His style was aggressive, he wasn’t afraid to pan the players or for that matter rip the owners. Caray wasn’t a saint by any means, he had a tremendous ego himself and could be spiteful towards those he didn’t care for, like fellow announcer and former Sox catcher J.C. Martin, whom Caray felt had no business being in a television booth, but to Sox fans he was the best asset the team had.

When Einhorn and his partner Jerry Reinsdorf took over the Sox, Caray became intolerable to them. Einhorn is quoted in Logan’s book as saying, "we were a freak show. The fans thought Harry and Jimmy (Piersall) were the stars. Things were insane." 

Caray for his part, kept his personal feelings about the new owners and his relationship with them to himself, until the ties were severed between them. Afterwards he made no bones about how he felt, saying in his autobiography that Sox fans would ask him why he left and why he went to the Cubs. Caray said he loved Sox fans and loved Comiskey Park but he couldn’t stand the owners, going so far as to call them an unflattering name in the book and saying they knew nothing about running a team. 

Despite the strained relationship the Sox would have brought Caray back for the 1982 season when he decided to leave and signed a deal with the Cubs. According to producer Noel Gimble, quoting Steve Stone, in his documentary on Caray’s career called, “Hello Again Everybody”  the Sox actually offered to pay Caray more money than he signed on to do the Cubs for. 

In Logan’s book, Caray had this to say, "They wanted to sign me again, but with SportsVision, the White Sox are the best kept secret in Chicago. If their games were on free TV, they’d own the town now and be a byword across the nation." (Author’s Note: because of now "Superstation WGN") I gave them some good advice at that contract meeting. I told them, “you guys came in as owners with a positive image and became villains by taking Jimmy (Piersall) out of the broadcast booth. Why don’t you get back in the fans’ good graces by putting us back together on the TV team" Caray continued with Reinsdorf’s reply. "Jerry answered, ‘Harry, I’ll be up in heaven looking down before Piersall broadcasts another one of our games,’ and Einhorn said, ‘with you or without you, the White Sox are going into SportsVision and away from free TV. " 

Logan’s book quotes Caray as saying "that’s when I made up my mind to leave. They were talking about maybe reaching 50,000 homes on pay TV instead of the 22 million people who watch the Cubs on WGN." 

The final word in the Caray / Sox owner’s feud came on the night of September 17, 1983. After the Sox clinched the Western Division Championship and before a national audience, since WGN received permission to take the SportsVision feed of the 9^th inning and post-game interviews, Reinsdorf issued a final blast. During an interview with "Hawk" Harrelson, Reinsdorf said, “wherever you’re at, Harry and Jimmy, eat your hearts out. I hope people realize what scum you are.”

Harrelson was momentarily speechless. 

Like him or not, letting Caray leave turned out to be a huge mistake. Caray became the “Pied Piper” of the North Side and came into the situation just about the time the Wrigleyville neighborhood became trendy with young, upscale individuals who decided going to see the Cubs was the thing to do. The Cubs made the playoffs in 1984 and with their games being shown coast to coast on WGN, fans everywhere who didn’t owe an allegiance to a particular team, seemed to become Cub fans.

The Cubs would ride this wave to become the dominant team in Chicago despite many lousy years on the playing field. They would win the important public relations battle for the hearts and minds of neutral Chicagoans. With fans flocking to see the "shrine" (i.e. Wrigley Field) it didn’t matter if the Cubs won or lost, they were making money hand over foot.

 

[South Side Fireworks Man]

26 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

 

 

 

The final word in the Caray / Sox owner’s feud came on the night of September 17, 1983. After the Sox clinched the Western Division Championship and before a national audience, since WGN received permission to take the SportsVision feed of the 9^th inning and post-game interviews, Reinsdorf issued a final blast. During an interview with "Hawk" Harrelson, Reinsdorf said, “wherever you’re at, Harry and Jimmy, eat your hearts out. I hope people realize what scum you are.”

 

 

 

And with that Reinsdorf made people realize what scum he is.  He's been a lousy owner as well.  

Einhorn & Reinsdorf helped turn Chicago into a Cubs town.

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, pcq said:

Yet pay tv is what we ended up with. No way to avoid it. 

This is the funny part. A certain segment of fans is still upset with stuff from 40 years ago, but in this case Jerry was way ahead of the curve.  He was 110% right in this case. Paid TV was the future and it led to an explosion in baseball revenue.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is the funny part. A certain segment of fans is still upset with stuff from 40 years ago, but in this case Jerry was way ahead of the curve.  He was 110% right in this case. Pat TV was the future and it led to an explosion in baseball revenue.

It was a dumb move at the time.  Nobody wanted to pay for a product that everyone else was offering free.  Plus, while WGN was a superstation and had a strong clear vhf signal in the Chicago area, Sportsvision required a special box with a separate antenna installed on your roof just to watch one station that only offered Sox games.

It would be like owning a gas station in 1982 and replacing all your pumps with charging stations because in 40 years people will have electric cars.  I guess that would be considered "ahead of it's time. "

[HOFHurt35]

11 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

She's a real person - whether she actually hears stuff is another thing all together. I don't recall her ever breaking anything.

Yeah, I think Northbrook called her out for her BS. 

 

[South Side Fireworks Man]

19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is the funny part. A certain segment of fans is still upset with stuff from 40 years ago, 

People are upset because that mistake from 40 years ago cost the White Sox a major portion of the Chicago fan base (as well as some nationally, since WGN was a superstation) and is a mistake from which they have never recovered.  That event of 40 years ago was what turned Chicago overwhelmingly into a Cubs town.

[WBWSF]

57 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is the funny part. A certain segment of fans is still upset with stuff from 40 years ago, but in this case Jerry was way ahead of the curve.  He was 110% right in this case. Pat TV was the future and it led to an explosion in baseball revenue.

JR should have waited on Sportsvision  until the Chicagoland area was wired for cable. Pay Tv became a goldmine when it went to cable. Buying a box for one channel didn't  workout. I've always thought that the Sportsvision fiasco hurt Einhorn deeply. When Florida wanted the White Sox, Einhorn was all for moving the team. When the White Sox stayed in Chicago Einhorn sold most of his White Sox stock to JR and he left the scene.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

It was a dumb move at the time.  Nobody wanted to pay for a product that everyone else was offering free.  Plus, while WGN was a superstation and had a strong clear vhf signal in the Chicago area, Sportsvision required a special box with a separate antenna installed on your roof just to watch one station that only offered Sox games.

It would be like owning a gas station in 1982 and replacing all your pumps with charging stations because in 40 years people will have electric cars.  I guess that would be considered "ahead of it's time. "

It wasn't 40 years into the future though.  I know people are still salty about it, but they were/and are wrong.

[pcq]

1 hour ago, HOFHurt35 said:

Yeah, I think Northbrook called her out for her BS. 

 

It is possible the clubhouse had factions. My idea was they all take language class together. Baseball needs to get real with requiring bilingualism. Seriously. 

[The Mighty Mite]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is the funny part. A certain segment of fans is still upset with stuff from 40 years ago, but in this case Jerry was way ahead of the curve.  He was 110% right in this case. Paid TV was the future and it led to an explosion in baseball revenue.

The timing was bad and it wasn't with cable, it was goofy looking over the air antenna that alien travelers might have brought from Mars and the picture wasn't exactly crystal clear.