The State of the Sox...

[Flash]

19 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I still wonder if the Sox will be in Chicago past this decade. 

Even though I think Grandpa Ricketts is a turd, the Cubs are actually run like a competent, large market team. 

The Sox are going to start bleeding fans whether to apathy or jumping ship. 

If I had a kid I wouldn't want them to be a Sox fan. 

Sox have become a hard team to root for. Chicagoans are hearty fans and can tolerate many things but a lack of intensity, especially by an otherwise talented bunch, is a huge turn-off. I'm not saying its systemic or there aren't players who really care but there are a handful of guys, specifically position players, who jut seem apathetic and, unfortuately we have locked them into big contracts, for which they now seem content .  

 

[tray]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

I still wonder if the Sox will be in Chicago past this decade. 

Even though I think Grandpa Ricketts is a turd, the Cubs are actually run like a competent, large market team. 

The Sox are going to start bleeding fans whether to apathy or jumping ship. 

If I had a kid I wouldn't want them to be a Sox fan. 

One of the most ridiculous posts I have ever read on this forum.

 

[South Side Fireworks Man]

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

JR never said that, Eddie Einhorn did. And when I interviewed Mike Veeck he said JR actually apologized to the Veeck family for that comment.

Yeah I never liked Eddie either.  In fact I disliked him more than Reinsdorf in those early years.  They both sucked.

[Stinky Stanky]

On 11/7/2022 at 6:58 PM, southsider2k5 said:

If nothing else he made Pedro's 1st job a lot easier by reducing expectations to near zero.  Hell you have Sox fans themselves telling everyone how they can't possibly win anything no matter what.

Situation normal.  I've endured a lifetime of it.  You too?

On 11/12/2022 at 12:31 PM, South Side Fireworks Man said:

And with that Reinsdorf made people realize what scum he is.  He's been a lousy owner as well.  

Einhorn & Reinsdorf helped turn Chicago into a Cubs town.

Who can forget that magic moment. It's not a defense, but he and EE were both drunk and looked it, prolly from a sip of bubbly.

[Sarava]

6 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I still wonder if the Sox will be in Chicago past this decade. 

Even though I think Grandpa Ricketts is a turd, the Cubs are actually run like a competent, large market team. 

The Sox are going to start bleeding fans whether to apathy or jumping ship. 

If I had a kid I wouldn't want them to be a Sox fan. 

As long as some absurdly rich billionaire that wants a team in his own city doesn't buy them.... A smart businessman would recognize the untapped goldmine that is the White sox. But it likely resides in the suburbs eventually.

[Sarava]

5 hours ago, Flash said:

Sox have become a hard team to root for. Chicagoans are hearty fans and can tolerate many things but a lack of intensity, especially by an otherwise talented bunch, is a huge turn-off. I'm not saying its systemic or there aren't players who really care but there are a handful of guys, specifically position players, who jut seem apathetic and, unfortuately we have locked them into big contracts, for which they now seem content .  

 

It's really weird how 3 years ago - we were on the cusp of the most entertaining White Sox team since the Black Sox. And now we have our hands full with one of the least watchable White Sox teams in history.

[hi8is]

13 minutes ago, Sarava said:

It's really weird how 3 years ago - we were on the cusp of the most entertaining White Sox team since the Black Sox. And now we have our hands full with one of the least watchable White Sox teams in history.

Problems top to bottom… chicken or the egg?

[southsider2k5]

9 hours ago, tray said:

One of the most ridiculous posts I have ever read on this forum.

 

To let you know how ridiculous it is, Tray and I agree on this.  The Ricketts took a slam dunk playoff team and a World Series champion, and destroyed it with nothing to show for it.  They keep talking about spending, but never actually have.  So far they have spent outside of the stadium by the bucketfull, but nothing inside of it.

[Balta1701]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

To let you know how ridiculous it is, Tray and I agree on this.  The Ricketts took a slam dunk playoff team and a World Series champion, and destroyed it with nothing to show for it.  They keep talking about spending, but never actually have.  So far they have spent outside of the stadium by the bucketfull, but nothing inside of it.

I find this to be comparably ridiculous. 

The Ricketts dismantled a “slam dunk playoff team”? That would I think be news to anyone who watched the 2021 Cubs. They would have completely missed the 2021 playoffs and almost certainly 2022 as well. They were 9 games back and 2 games under .500 at the all star break. Calling that a sure fire playoff team is just wrong.

And they haven’t spent inside the stadium? They had a top 6 payroll 5 years in a row, paid the luxury tax twice, would have been top 6 another year but they sold off guys like Bryant and Kimbrel. Outside of the Dodgers, every franchise is going to go through cycles where it makes no sense to spend money and they need to get younger. I only wish the white Sox wound spend the same nothing inside for 5 years.

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I find this to be comparably ridiculous. 

The Ricketts dismantled a “slam dunk playoff team”? That would I think be news to anyone who watched the 2021 Cubs. They would have completely missed the 2021 playoffs and almost certainly 2022 as well. They were 9 games back and 2 games under .500 at the all star break. Calling that a sure fire playoff team is just wrong.

And they haven’t spent inside the stadium? They had a top 6 payroll 5 years in a row, paid the luxury tax twice, would have been top 6 another year but they sold off guys like Bryant and Kimbrel. Outside of the Dodgers, every franchise is going to go through cycles where it makes no sense to spend money and they need to get younger. I only wish the white Sox wound spend the same nothing inside for 5 years.

Cool, I feel a lot better after this post.

[Kyyle23]

12 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I still wonder if the Sox will be in Chicago past this decade. 

Even though I think Grandpa Ricketts is a turd, the Cubs are actually run like a competent, large market team. 

The Sox are going to start bleeding fans whether to apathy or jumping ship. 

If I had a kid I wouldn't want them to be a Sox fan. 

Ricketts just put his fans through another rebuild lmao

[35thstreetswarm]

13 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

On paper it will be a lot closer than people realize. Especially if they get Abreu, Correa, and a good OF with that money. 

Well, they could get Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, and Schwarber and that wouldn't do it...

[Jack Parkman]

11 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Ricketts just put his fans through another rebuild lmao

It was 100% the right move. That core had run its course. 

Just like the Sox admitting that the previous rebuild failed and tearing it down again would be the right move. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It was 100% the right move. That core had run its course. 

Just like the Sox admitting that the previous rebuild failed and tearing it down again would be the right move. 

Well according to the Balta methodology of adding back WAR to decide who will make the playoffs, the key guys the dealt away and let walk from that 2019 team would add back about 15 WAR, which would have made this a playoff team.  But that is only a White Sox thing, so...

[The Mighty Mite]

8 hours ago, Sarava said:

It's really weird how 3 years ago - we were on the cusp of the most entertaining White Sox team since the Black Sox. And now we have our hands full with one of the least watchable White Sox teams in history.

Grifol has his work cut out for him, let's hope he can turn this mess around.

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Well according to the Balta methodology of adding back WAR to decide who will make the playoffs, the key guys the dealt away and let walk from that 2019 team would add back about 15 WAR, which would have made this a playoff team.  But that is only a White Sox thing, so...

 

[southsider2k5]

If that is what you got out of that, sure. 

[Quin]

25 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

 

This gif is phenomenal.

[Balta1701]

Ok, just checking this while in a meeting.

Cubs last year: 24.4 fWAR

Guys they're Missing:
Darvish: 4.2
Quintana: 4
Bryant: 0.6
Schwarber: 2.6
Castellanos: -0.7
Caratini: 1.2
Baez: 2.0
Rizzo: 2.4
Kimbrel: 0.9

Guys who wouldn't be there or would be blocked:
Wisdom 1.1
Gomes: 0.6
Madrigal: 0.2
Probably 2 of their starters: 2 WAR give or take who loses playing time. 

Probably upper 30s WAR, give or take playing time. 

What does that do to payroll?
Darvish $20 millIon
Quintana $2 million
Bryant $18.6 Million
Schwarber: $19 Million
Castellanos $20 million
Caratini $2 million
Rizzo $11 million
Javy Baez $20 million
Kimbrel: $16 million

Cubs Luxury Tax number last year: $194 million, listed payroll $141 million. I count just under $130 million in salaries for the guys no longer there, giving them a luxury tax number of $320 million. The Dodgers luxury tax number was $283 million, the Mets luxury tax was $313 million.

To hold onto their entire team from 2019 puts them comparable to the highest payrolls in the league, with the largest luxury tax bill, and they wind up somewhere in the upper 30s for WAR. St. Louis put up 46.2 fWAR last year, Milwaukee 39.2. Philly (last team in) 44.3. 

So yeah, they hold onto their entire roster, spend the highest amount in the league, put up fewer WAR than Milwaukee who missed the playoffs. They might have had a legit shot in the AL if they were the best coached team, that is more WAR than the Rays put up, but every other playoff team outproduced that roster, and that's with the gift of Quintana thrown in.

[Stinky Stanky]

On 11/2/2022 at 2:14 PM, WBWSF said:

I thought WSI went out of business a few years ago. I always thought that WSI was  one of the oddest things  on the internet. It was a G rated forum. If you said anything of any substance you were banned.

Trigger happy and not that smart mods, especially on the old board.  If they parsed something as controversial, even if it wasn't, you were banned.  This site makes a poster feel free and we seem to be acting like rational Sox fans and getting along.