Cody Bellinger to the Cubs

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 11/19/2022 at 1:23 PM, Jack Parkman said:

This. 

If the $180M number is true, then they have to at least trade Hendriks to give them $30M. 

They can't really fill holes without that. And, even if they trade Giolito they're going to spend that $10M to replace him anyway. The only reason to do that is if they just want to go with two lefties in the rotation. 

Not only are they toast with budgetary restrictions, but they'd probably have to trade all of their top prospects just to fill holes, including Schultz and Pallette. 

 

I thought the lane you picked was a rebuild ? If you're going to add question marks it may as well be cheap rookie question marks who can get better over time without costing the team $10M to add to the mess of Moncada, Grandal, Giolito and Eloy staying healthy and having much better seasons. If Outman plays as much as Bellinger he'll have as much WAR and so will Colas and possibly Garrett too and all 3 of those guys added together will be about 15% of what Bellinger will cost plus 18 years of them vs. 1 or 2 years of Bellinger and his crap shoulder ? You have to be as high as Bellinger to not start adding to the core with fleet defenders with good arms and powerful bats.

Anyone wanting to add Bellinger must be in love with Moncada too. They have about then same chance of hitting like they once did. Aren't the Sox already wasting enough money on Grandal and Moncada to keep throwing that kind of money at someone the Dodgers couldn't fix ?

[Jack Parkman]

10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I thought the lane you picked was a rebuild ? If you're going to add question marks it may as well be cheap rookie question marks who can get better over time without costing the team $10M to add to the mess of Moncada, Grandal, Giolito and Eloy staying healthy and having much better seasons. If Outman plays as much as Bellinger he'll have as much WAR and so will Colas and possibly Garrett too and all 3 of those guys added together will be about 15% of what Bellinger will cost plus 18 years of them vs. 1 or 2 years of Bellinger and his crap shoulder ? You have to be as high as Bellinger to not start adding to the core with fleet defenders with good arms and powerful bats.

Anyone wanting to add Bellinger must be in love with Moncada too. They have about then same chance of hitting like they once did. Aren't the Sox already wasting enough money on Grandal and Moncada to keep throwing that kind of money at someone the Dodgers couldn't fix ?

That is the lane I picked, but that's not the lane the Sox are going to pick. They're going to try to be as competitive as possible. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 hours ago, bmags said:

Man it is astounding to realize that bellinger would have led our team in HRs last year off his bad year. I do think given the LH batter issue we kinda need to take shots like this

It wouldn't even be good money after bad. It'd be bad money after bad. I'd rather take my chances with the 3 AAA OF's. Colas,  people here like Outman, and Garret should be given a shot. They will be flying around the OF ,bashing HR's ,flying around the bases and bringing energy to this team which is what Grifol wants.

Defense, power, base running and best of all 6 years apiece for all 3 of them ! Outman and Garrett had great AAA seasons. Colas looks pretty ready to go himself. 2 lefty bashers and 1 RH basher who play good defense too. It's what we've been wanting for 2 years and now people want a $10M retread instead because he's a "name" player with an MVP in 2019?

  That's $2.16M for 3 guys who run and hit and defend right up there with Bellinger without the age or accumulated injuries or salary vs. $10M for 1 guy who's had 3 straight blah seasons since he blew out his shoulder. They also have a chance to out perform Bellinger with the bat too.

I don't get it.

Edited November 21, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Sarava]

12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That is the lane I picked, but that's not the lane the Sox are going to pick. They're going to try to be as competitive as possible. 

Eh, as competitive as possible, while slashing payroll to satisfy Reinsdorf's bank account.

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It woudn't even be good money after bad. It'd be bad money after bad. I'd rather take my chances with the 3 AAA OF's. Colas, plenty of people here like Outman, and Garret should be given a shot. They will be flying around the OF ,bashing HR's ,flying around the bases and bringing energy to this team which is what Grifol wants.

Defense, Power, base running and best of all 6 years apiece for all 3 of them ! Outman and Garrett had great AAA seasons. Colas looks pretty ready to go himself. 2 lefty bashers and 1 RH basher who play good defense too. It's what we've been wanting for 2 years and now people want a $10M retread instead ?

I don't get it.

What I don't get is if you are trying to win a championship,  how would relying on a  minimum guy who was DFAd by the DBacks be a good idea? I certainly don't think throwing 8 figures at Bellinger is a good idea, unless they have someone who sees a simple fix. I did see DeRosa trying to fix him on MLBN last year, as his set up was slightly different,  especially his back foot from his halcyon days, but you would think he and the Dodgers have tried everything. I do agree that it would be better to have some control or they may be playing the game again next year. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That is the lane I picked, but that's not the lane the Sox are going to pick. They're going to try to be as competitive as possible. 

Or they may not or think they can be competitive with a plan like mine 3 young OF all ready to play in the Majors. 2 of them being LH all with power and defense. Spend what little money you have on pitching and trade Hendriks in an Outman deal.

Go to war with a young speedy powerful OF while adding 2 LHH lots of defense and lots of power. And best of all young bashers who can become core pieces quickly.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

14 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What I don't get is if you are trying to win a championship,  how would relying on a  minimum guy who was DFAd by the DBacks be a good idea? I certainly don't think throwing 8 figures at Bellinger is a good idea, unless they have someone who sees a simple fix. I did see DeRosa trying to fix him on MLBN last year, as his set up was slightly different,  especially his back foot from his halcyon days, but you would think he and the Dodgers have tried everything. I do agree that it would be better to have some control or they may be playing the game again next year. 

Who said anyone is trying to win a championship ? There is no winning a championship but you can turn it around quicker adding 3 young studs and finally getting some LH bats and defense in the OF to support the pitching.

Every plan is a long shot at this point but why add pieces that are going to be gone in 2 years or less and cost you beacoup bucks to see if they can rebound after 3 off seasons ? It's bad enough the Sox have to do that with Moncada and wait for full healthy seasons from Eloy and Robert. Maybe those 3 young guys can stay healthy and produce too.

The position player core has been a disaster. Time to start see if those 3 guys can be core pieces. Better defense, more power, faster, better balanced lineup, wayyyy cheaper OF depth. I could've sworn that's what we wanted.

Edited November 21, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Sarava]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Or they may not or think they can be competitive with a plan like mine 3 young OF all ready to play in the Majors. 2 of them being LH all with power and defense. Spend what little money you have on pitching and trade Hendriks in an Outman deal.

Go to war with a young speedy powerful OF while adding 2 LHH lots of defense and lots of power. And best of all young bashers who can become core pieces quickly.

I'm not an expert on Dodger prospects, but isn't Outman considered more of a potential bench or platoon player.... than a guy we would trade one of the top closers in baseball for?

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Who said anyone is trying to win a championship ? There is no winning a championship but you can turn it around quicker adding 3 young studs and finally getting some LH bats and defense in the OF to support the pitching.

Every plan is a long shot at this point but why add pieces that are going to be gone in 2 years or less and cost you beacoup bucks to see if they can rebound after 3 off seasons ? It's bad enough the Sox have to do that with Moncada and wait for full healthy seasons from Eloy and Robert. Maybe those 3 young guys can stay healthy and produce too.

The position player core has been a disaster. Time to start see if those 3 guys can be core pieces. Better defense, more power, faster, better balanced lineup OF depth. I could've sworn that's what we wanted.

You’re losing me when you call Stone Garrett a young stud.  And Outman is interesting, but seems to be a boom or bust type guy.  The Dodgers won’t just give him away though, so you’ll also have to pay a decent price in talent to have the luxury of seeing what guy you ultimately get.

[ChiSox59]

26 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What I don't get is if you are trying to win a championship,  how would relying on a  minimum guy who was DFAd by the DBacks be a good idea? I certainly don't think throwing 8 figures at Bellinger is a good idea, unless they have someone who sees a simple fix. I did see DeRosa trying to fix him on MLBN last year, as his set up was slightly different,  especially his back foot from his halcyon days, but you would think he and the Dodgers have tried everything. I do agree that it would be better to have some control or they may be playing the game again next year. 

Nor do we even know if Outman is available. Bellinger is. Outman could also be a AAAA player for all we know. He’s not even a top 100 prospect. You’d think the dude was the next coming of Bryce Harper based on Cali mentioning him every post. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You’re losing me when you call Stone Garrett a young stud.  And Outman is interesting, but seems to be a boom or bust type guy.  The Dodgers won’t just give him away though, so you’ll also have to pay a decent price in talent to have the luxury of seeing what guy you ultimately get.

Look the new rules are begging teams to add young fast LH players. The bigger bases, the shift rule changes, the pick off attempts and pitch clock rules.

Yea Garrett isn't LH but he is fast and hits for power. Sure he got DFA'd but so what. Plenty of teams had turned less into more. JD Martinez, Muncy, Taylor, Justin Turner you can go on and on with guys who no one thought nothing of at one point who became something.

Ok so he isn't as young as the other guys but did you see what he did in AAA and then with his 27 trial run with the Dbacks ?

How can you totally dismiss his, speed , power and defense when fast young players are what made Cleveland so dynamic and the new rules are geared towards making them even more important ?

[Jack Parkman]

37 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Eh, as competitive as possible, while slashing payroll to satisfy Reinsdorf's bank account.

Correct. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Nor do we even know if Outman is available. Bellinger is. Outman could also be a AAAA player for all we know. He’s not even a top 100 prospect. You’d think the dude was the next coming of Bryce Harper based on Cali mentioning him every post. 

ANd you'd think that the chances were much better for Moncada and Bellinger to become good again for as much as you mention them only the guys I'm talking about will cost next to nothing and your guys are going to cost whatever Moncada is still owed and whatever Bellinger would cost in some vain attempt to revive their careers and then send Bellinger somewhere else just like the Sox did with Rodon.

The only thing separating Bellinger being Billy Hamilton is the HR every 28 AB's for the last 3 years.

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Look the new rules are begging teams to add young fast LH players. The bigger bases, the shift rule changes, the pick off attempts and pitch clock rules.

Yea Garrett isn't LH but he is fast and hits for power. Sure he got DFA'd but so what. Plenty of teams had turned less into more. JD Martinez, Muncy, Taylor, Justin Turner you can go on and on with guys who no one thought nothing of at one point who became something.

Ok so he isn't as young as the other guys but did you see what he did in AAA and then with his 27 trial run with the Dbacks ?

How can you totally dismiss his, speed , power and defense when fast young players are what made Cleveland so dynamic and the new rules are geared towards making them even more important ?

I wouldn’t have a problem putting a claim in on Garrett, but I think your expectations are way too high.  Tons of athletic guys can’t hit major league pitching and his former team didn’t buy into his SSS of production.  Doesn’t mean the DBacks couldn’t be wrong on him, but I wouldn’t banking on him playing an important role next year on a club trying to win a championship.

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The only thing separating Bellinger being Billy Hamilton is the HR every 28 AB's for the last 3 years.

This is absolutely ridiculous.  Billy Hamilton is one of the worst hitters in recent memory.  Bellinger in his current flawed state is leagues better.  And there is still the hope a 27 year old former MVP can find his form, especially with a fresh start somewhere else.  I’m not expecting a sudden return to form, but it’s much more likely than Stone Garrett or James Outman becoming stud OFs.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I wouldn’t have a problem putting a claim in on Garrett, but I think your expectations are way too high.  Tons of athletic guys can’t hit major league pitching and his former team didn’t buy into his SSS of production.  Doesn’t mean the DBacks couldn’t be wrong on him, but I wouldn’t banking on him playing an important role next year on a club trying to win a championship.

I'm not expecting anything. The team isn't going to win a World Series anyway next year.  And they aren't going to pay for Bellinger.

There is expect and there is hope.

But I have more faith into adding younger, faster, better defensive, cheaper players who hit for power than I do in rolling out the same garbage in the OF because the new rules are pointing us in that direction and only a fool ignores those things.

People act like it's a sin around here to mention other teams prospects who have skills. Just because I'm sticking my neck out doesn't mean I'm right or wrong. Our old pal Jimmy thought it would also be prudent to try to get Garrett. To me its all about the skill set of these guys. The fact that Outman isnt a top 100 prospect makes the chances of getting him better. Sue me if I want younger power hitters who can field and run and aren't ranked.  I can't ignore the numbers they put up in AAA and their small but very good sample sizes in the majors.

 

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

47 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I'm not an expert on Dodger prospects, but isn't Outman considered more of a potential bench or platoon player.... than a guy we would trade one of the top closers in baseball for?

IMO, yes. I get why some on here like him, but even BA considers him a 4th OF'er. That's why I don't consider trading Hendricks unless the Sox are A) blowing it up or B) out of the race at the deadline.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is absolutely ridiculous.  Billy Hamilton is one of the worst hitters in recent memory.  Bellinger in his current flawed state is leagues better.  And there is still the hope a 27 year old former MVP can find his form, especially with a fresh start somewhere else.  I’m not expecting a sudden return to form, but it’s much more likely than Stone Garrett or James Outman becoming stud OFs.

We'll see you know me well enough to know I know what I'm talking about usually. I was 100 % right about what to do with Rodon against just about everyone here and @ptatc. I predicted the downfall of the rebuild probably 2.5 years ago. I nailed what Abreu would hit his rookie year. I was right about Vaughn's OF defense. To those who were crowing how Kopech was going to step right up and take Rodon's place I told them they were expecting way too much for a 1st year starting pitcher coming off an TJ surgery.

In Billy Hamilton's 2021 year with the Sox in 127 AB's  .220. 242 .378 .620 9 steals

Cody Bellinger 2022                                           504 AB's    .210 .265 .389  .654 14 steals

Looks pretty similar to me but if you want to find out if he's still got an MVP inside him for $10M+ that's up to you rather than try to get a DFA guy , a not Top 100 ranked prospect who has showed promise and can take advantage of the new rules and have as good a chance than any Sox prospect not named Colas to contribute immediately for way less money and way more years   that's fine. I'm not going to stop thinking my idea is way more plausible, realistic and ultimately more productive and way cheaper and much better for infusing the team with youth rather than retreads.

Edited November 21, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Sarava]

26 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm not expecting anything. The team isn't going to win a World Series anyway next year.  And they aren't going to pay for Bellinger.

There is expect and there is hope.

But I have more faith into adding younger, faster, better defensive, cheaper players who hit for power than I do in rolling out the same garbage in the OF because the new rules are pointing us in that direction and only a fool ignores those things.

People act like it's a sin around here to mention other teams prospects who have skills. Just because I'm sticking my neck out doesn't mean I'm right or wrong. Our old pal Jimmy thought it would also be prudent to try to get Garrett. To me its all about the skill set of these guys. The fact that Outman isnt a top 100 prospect makes the chances of getting him better. Sue me if I want younger power hitters who can field and run and aren't ranked.  I can't ignore the numbers they put up in AAA and their small but very good sample sizes in the majors.

 

I've seen you say this at least twice in this thread. You should know better than to say that. I'm not saying it's likely. But if a couple of these rebuild guys finally get their s%*# together and blow up, this team could be world beaters.

[Timmy U]

I don't necessarily endorse getting Bellinger, but the Sox need to sign at least one pitcher and probably an outfielder from the Bellinger, Conforto, Benintendi, Nimmo group.  I know Hahn says he's going to solve their problems via trade, but I just don't see the assets to do that.  Right now, this team has more money than players and should act accordingly. Especially since they have quite a bit of cash coming off the books in the next two years.

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, Timmy U said:

I don't necessarily endorse getting Bellinger, but the Sox need to sign at least one pitcher and probably an outfielder from the Bellinger, Conforto, Benintendi, Nimmo group.  I know Hahn says he's going to solve their problems via trade, but I just don't see the assets to do that.  Right now, this team has more money than players and should act accordingly. Especially since they have quite a bit of cash coming off the books in the next two years.

The one thing we all can agree on is Hahn will fall far short if he thinks he is going to fix most of the issues by trade.

[pcq]

No clue why people want Bellinger. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Sarava said:

I'm not an expert on Dodger prospects, but isn't Outman considered more of a potential bench or platoon player.... than a guy we would trade one of the top closers in baseball for?

I'm no expert either. But the Sox have needs. Among those needs are youth, speed. power and defense and LH hitters. This team is pretty far away from  a miraculous run at a World Title. The new shift rules are designed to help LHH . The new bigger bases, pickoff attempt, and pitch clock rules are all designed for stealing bases.

With all those things in mind plus the fact the Sox have practically no one in the minors to step into the opening day roster beside Colas and many don't think he's ready either. But I do. So I identify a skill set of guys ready to play in the Major Leagues who have most of those attributes.

Please don't take me so literally about Hendriks for Outman. I think there's trade that can involve both of them to be made but I have no idea who else might be involved.

The Sox need to rid themselves of salary and outside of Cease, Hendriks is the main guy . Make Lopez the closer and use the extra monet if any to get a decent starting pitcher and cheaper BP pieces.

Nothing I can suggest nor getting Bellinger will turn this team into a contender. Maybe either way can get them into the playoffs again IF Moncada, Gilito, Grandal, Robert, ANderson and Eloy can all have relatively healthy seasons and Kopech can pitch a full season and Vaughn also takes a step up.

Really too many ifs to actually think the Sox would make the playoffs but at least my idea is infusing the team with much needed speed, power and defense is to provide hope for adding to the core and designed to take advantage of the new rules.

Edited November 21, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[WBWSF]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm no expert either. But the Sox have needs. Among those needs are youth, speed. power and defense and LH hitters. This team is pretty far away from  a miraculous run at a World Title. The new shift rules are designed to help LHH . The new bigger bases, pickoff attempt, and pitch clock rules are all designed for stealing bases.

With all those things in mind plus the fact the Sox have practically no one in the minors to step into the opening day roster beside Colas and many don't think he's ready either. But I do. So I identify a skill set of guys ready to play in the Major Leagues who have most of those attributes.

Please don't take me so literally about Hendriks for Outman. I think there's trade that can involve both of them to be made but I have no idea who else might be involved.

The Sox need to rid themselves of salary and outside of Cease, Hendriks is the main guy . Make Lopez the closer and use the extra monet if any to get a decent starting pitcher and cheaper BP pieces.

Nothing I can suggest nor getting Bellinger will turn this team into a contender. Maybe either way can get them into the playoffs again IF Moncada, Gilito, Grandal, Robert, ANderson and Eloy can all have relatively healthy seasons and Kopech can pitch a full season and Vaughn also takes a step up.

Really too many ifs to actually think the Sox would make the playoffs but at least my idea is infusing the team with much needed speed, power and defense to provide hope for adding to the core and designed to take advantage of the new rules.

The White Sox will go to the Playoffs in 2023!!!!

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

16 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I've seen you say this at least twice in this thread. You should know better than to say that. I'm not saying it's likely. But if a couple of these rebuild guys finally get their s%*# together and blow up, this team could be world beaters.

Right now the Sox according to Vegas are the 11th team in line picked to win the World Series. It might get worse during the off season. We need like 8 different key guys to rebound or show improvement health and statistics wise without the others falling off a cliff too.