Mike Clevinger to Sox per Rosenthal

[Chicago White Sox]

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What i don't get is every White Sox who sucked last year, will never reach his potential and needs to go, but Clevinger is a great pick up. He, of course , will return to form. 

Face facts, the Sox signed him because he potentially can be really good. Another year removed from TJ surgery can help, but most importantly, he was cheap.

There is no guarantee he will return to form obviously, but there are some reasons for optimism and I don’t think you’re getting this high of a ceiling for any other pitcher in this price range.

Also, let it be know that I think Giolito will rebound next year and be firmly in the 3 to 4 win range and that Kopech will take a big leap forward and finally become a 3+ win pitcher.

[ScootsMcGoots]

1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said:

clevinger is fine but its one of those moves that doesn't really move the needle

lets see what they do for left handed hitting, OF, defense overall, etc. 

Clev can be a nice addition when it comes with more

This is where I'm at. I'll get excited when they address the real issues. Defense and power.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, ScooterMcGuire said:

This is where I'm at. I'll get excited when they address the real issues. Defense and power.

They did need another SP and still need depth there.

[JoeC]

24 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

Seeing as this was a rather quick and quiet (still don't know the money) signing leads me to believe that he was a target and willing target as it came together quickly.

I kind of find the clubhouse stuff a little odd on this board if his major flaw was that he did not follow COVID protocol.  Of all of things to concern yourself with that being one is lower on my list behind guys that can't focus because of Instagram and players you know......actually not really trying that hard. 

The issue with the COVID protocol wasn't necessarily that he broke the protocol, but that he lied to the team about it afterwards.

If you recall, this happened in 2020, when COVID fears were peaking. He (and Plesac) went out for dinner with friends (at the time a breach of protocol), then lied about it and boarded the team plane, thus putting the entire team and its short-term competitiveness into question. Heck - even Plesac said he broke protocol, and the team went out and got a car service to drive him back to Cleveland so he wouldn't have to risk exposing his teammates on the flight.

Remember - positive COVID tests and exposures meant that you were immediately quarantined, and the team had to call up someone from their Taxi squad. With MLB's policies being a very strict "any exposure gets you quarantined" policy, if Clevinger would have been exposed to COVID, that could have put a vast majority of the Cleveland players into isolation, and therefore ineligible to play.

Regardless of hindsight and what we may know about COVID now, looking at the potential consequences involved purely in terms of the impact on the baseball team, that was a stupid decision compounded by a breach of trust. His actions could have taken Cleveland out of the race very quickly.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

3 minutes ago, ScooterMcGuire said:

This is where I'm at. I'll get excited when they address the real issues. Defense and power.

Exactly.  They signed a guy who has zero chance of being as good as the guy was he's replacing.  What else ya got, Hahn. 

[JoeC]

That said, depending on how the Sox free up payroll elsewhere, this could be a high-ceiling signing. Two TJ surgeries is tough. There are not one but two holes in your elbow where the ligament is now surgically attached, so the bone itself is more prone to breakage. Penciling him in as a #5 starter puts you into a good position, and I hope that he doesn't have to be counted on to be anything more (read: "I hope the guys like Kopech, Gio, and Lynn can perform like they should").

[Kyyle23]

32 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

Seeing as this was a rather quick and quiet (still don't know the money) signing leads me to believe that he was a target and willing target as it came together quickly.

I kind of find the clubhouse stuff a little odd on this board if his major flaw was that he did not follow COVID protocol.  Of all of things to concern yourself with that being one is lower on my list behind guys that can't focus because of Instagram and players you know......actually not really trying that hard. 

That Covid protocol was extremely important to the Guardians because of the health and sickness immunity of their manager and I believe they still had Carlos Carrasco at the time who had just finished cancer treatment and also was immunocompromised.  That was a big fuckin deal 

[Chimpton]

45 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Lynn was pretty darn good after his first handful of starts. Far better than a 5th SP. 

I'm thinking of next season when age and his lack of general fitness likely to catch up with him even more.

If we are relying on a whole season out of him and expecting him to pitch at a good level throughout, then I think that is optimistic. There is a risk he will start falling off a cliff like Keuchal did.

[kitekrazy]

2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Exactly.  They signed a guy who has zero chance of being as good as the guy was he's replacing.  What else ya got, Hahn. 

Yep why didn't they replace Cueto with............Cueto?  He gave you innings.   

[he gone.]

Put me in the category of this is a good value and upside/downside. You have to remember we paid Cueto $4mm after the season started and VV $5mm. Obviously the Cueto deal went swimmingly and was maybe a top steal of the offseason. 

All things considered $8mm is not a bad deal at all. 

Two questions that come to my mind ...

1) with the deal being just one year, what does that mean in terms of a Giolito trade?

2) are we still in talks for other SP's

 

The winning side of me wants to role with Giolito because i think it gives us the best chance to win a WS. But if we don't have a realistic chance of resigning him then we should be exploring options. Better to get something than nothing. 

 

[GREEDY]

1 minute ago, kitekrazy said:

Yep why didn't they replace Cueto with............Cueto?  He gave you innings.   

Even if you go to the a magic show every 5th day, you still question the smoke and mirrors.  

[kitekrazy]

30 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What i don't get is every White Sox who sucked last year, will never reach his potential and needs to go, but Clevinger is a great pick up. He, of course , will return to form. 

Face facts, the Sox signed him because he potentially can be really good. Another year removed from TJ surgery can help, but most importantly, he was cheap.

Unfortunately fans treat MLB like the NFL where after 2 years there is never an upside. There are plenty of knee jerk reactions and this organization sometimes does this.

[ChiSox59]

14 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

They did need another SP and still need depth there.

I think this is it for MLB pitching, honestly.  There is legitimately no more room.  The rotation is full and the pen is full.  I would love to see Hahn sign several SPs to milb deals though to improve the upper minors pitching depth.  I don't have any names off hand, but the Sox have to be a pretty attractive landing spot for guys  that wants to have a path to another chance in the bigs, and be a part of a team that has a good chance to compete.  

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

I think this is it for MLB pitching, honestly.  There is legitimately no more room.  The rotation is full and the pen is full.  I would love to see Hahn sign several SPs to milb deals though to improve the upper minors pitching depth.  I don't have any names off hand, but the Sox have to be a pretty attractive landing spot for guys  that wants to have a path to another chance in the bigs, and be a part of a team that has a good chance to compete.  

I’m just saying add depth: guys with options off waivers or free agency, maybe if there’s a swing-man they can add to the pen that can make starts, etc.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

This signing is:

[ x ] not a reliever

[ x ] less money than Joe Kelly

checks two boxes for me. 

[Quin]

11 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

That Covid protocol was extremely important to the Guardians because of the health and sickness immunity of their manager and I believe they still had Carlos Carrasco at the time who had just finished cancer treatment and also was immunocompromised.  That was a big fuckin deal 

You would be correct.

But, like someone else mentioned in this thread, Herb Lawrence (who was sour on a potential Clevinger signing) asked some San Diego friends if Clevinger matured and they apparently said yes. Maybe that's just BS-ing to reduce sting, but Herb and the CHGO podcast aren't state media like NBC Sports Chicago.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

It's a fine move. Bouncing back year 2 of a second tommy john isn't really a guaranteed thing, his stuff regressed, but he can still get people out. I'm not sure what the ceiling is anymore, but he's betting on himself so should be motivated.

My concern revolves around this team having three huge injury question marks in the rotation: Lynn, his body is done holding up for full seasons at his weight and age, Kopech has never been able to stay healthy and his performance last year was very concerning imo, and Clevinger. Sox lack pitching depth. That's a concern for me, but on paper they're a talented and experienced group.

[he gone.]

13 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Yep why didn't they replace Cueto with............Cueto?  He gave you innings.   

I wouldn't be shocked if we do replace Johnny with Johnny. I have a feeling we just replaced Giolito with Clevinger. 

I'd give Cueto 2/18mm and an option/buyout for a 3rd year. He's not going to be last year, but he still should be able to give you 4ERA ball give or take. 

[ChiSox59]

15 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Exactly.  They signed a guy who has zero chance of being as good as the guy was he's replacing.  What else ya got, Hahn. 

That seems terribly subjective.  I think there is a very good chance that 32 year old Clevinger can be as good as 36 year old Cueto.  Their xFIPs were only 0.38 different in 2022.  Clevinger has better stuff.   

I love Cueto.  He was awesome for the Sox and super fun to watch.  But he was highly unlikely to duplicate that success.  He hadn't been that productive (or healthy) since 2016.  The Sox got lucky with Johnny.  

[ChiSox59]

16 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Yep why didn't they replace Cueto with............Cueto?  He gave you innings.   

Because Cueto pulled a rabbit out of his hat and hadn't been that good in a half decade.  And he's 37 next season. 

[Dick Allen]

I'm not against this move, but Hahn needs to fix the offense. Their best hitter is gone. Hopefully there will be internal improvement, but he's also got to make a splash from the outside, or this is just more White Sox half assing.

[joejoesox]

51 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

There is no guarantee he will return to form obviously, but there are some reasons for optimism and I don’t think you’re getting this high of a ceiling for any other pitcher in this price range.

Also, let it be know that I think Giolito will rebound next year and be firmly in the 3 to 4 win range and that Kopech will take a big leap forward and finally become a 3+ win pitcher.

idk about Giolito, the more I think about it, his velocity loss is pretty concerning 

[southsider2k5]

From here I think you are probably done on big dollar spending on the rotation.  I look for them to add another swing man type deal, and definitely some MiLB with major league option type deals to fill any potential injury innings.  If you see them sign another major league deal for a starter of some significance, it makes it certain that Giolito is getting dealt.

[CentralChamps21]

If someone offers more than $5m for Cueto I wouldn't match it, but if he can be had for that much I'd certainly snag him to be the swing man.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, CentralChamps21 said:

If someone offers more than $5m for Cueto I wouldn't match it, but if he can be had for that much I'd certainly snag him to be the swing man.

I have to imagine he is looking for somewhere around double that, and he is looking for a promised starting slot.  No reason he shouldn't be demanding at least that.