Jose Abreu in Houston thread

[Stinky Stanky]

2 hours ago, The Beast said:

Abreu’s power numbers may be in decline, but the dude is a RBI machine. I hope Vaughn can replicate what Abreu did in his career and that the Sox can replace Abreu’s production with an actual outfielder they acquire. Clevinger can’t be their only addition this offseason with still so many holes to fill.

What was his BA w/RISP in 2022?  I seriously don't know, but I'm not guessing on the high side.

[Chimpton]

3 hours ago, Stinky Stanky said:

What was his BA w/RISP in 2022?  I seriously don't know, but I'm not guessing on the high side.

I can't think of one Sox hitter who had good figures in 2022 with a hitting coach that wanted them to ground out rather than hit for home runs

[Chimpton]

4 hours ago, Stinky Stanky said:

What was his BA w/RISP in 2022?  I seriously don't know, but I'm not guessing on the high side.

But to answer your question his BA w/RISP was .268 and the team BA w/RISP was .269. Abreu was down from .286 in 2021 and .329 in 2020. So that could support the idea he is in decline but with another hitting coach we could see those figures bounce back.

[zisk]

I love Jose. But getting Clevenger and saving  millions in the swap is good for this team.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

1 hour ago, zisk said:

I love Jose. But getting Clevenger and saving  millions in the swap is good for this team.

Good lord.

[NCsoxfan]

I can’t see any reason we should’ve paid Jose $20mil a year for the next three seasons at his age. But man will I miss him. 

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

I can’t see any reason we should’ve paid Jose $20mil a year for the next three seasons at his age. But man will I miss him. 

Yeah it makes sense for the Astros, who didn’t have a 1B.

I blame the front office for creating a logjam of 1B/DHs and Jerry for unwillingness to spend like a big market team in the middle of a competitive window.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Bob Sacamano

[White Sox Park]

I just saw that Jose is gone . sad to see him go, but not surprised . José Abreu is an honorable, hard working man, who never complained, and played his heart out, even when he didn't feel well . I hope that he tears it up in Houston(except when playing the Sox).

[zisk]

4 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Good lord.

Hey Harold, Unless Jose starts juicing, AV will be the  better player next year. We also needed a starter. We

got one and saved money, which can be used to address other needs. Spare me the sarcasm unless you can

talk JR into spending real money.

[The Beast]

11 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

It’s not ageist, greg. It’s about being up against the limit of what your owner is willing to set your payroll, and having your best hitting prospect waiting to replace and expensive piece that is clearly in decline. The only depth the team has is decent bats that play first base and low ceiling second base utility players. They can’t afford to commit significant resources to more players on those spots. 

Do we trust them to improve the team with productive players in other areas of need, like an actual right fielder and not a platoon player with Sheets? 

[T R U]

1 hour ago, zisk said:

Hey Harold, Unless Jose starts juicing, AV will be the  better player next year. We also needed a starter. We

got one and saved money, which can be used to address other needs. Spare me the sarcasm unless you can

talk JR into spending real money.

The Jose Abreu has declined crowd is really fascinating to me. Abreu was a 4 win player on our shitty team, what do you think hes going to do next season in the middle of that stacked Astros lineup?

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, T R U said:

The Jose Abreu has declined crowd is really fascinating to me. Abreu was a 4 win player on our shitty team, what do you think hes going to do next season in the middle of that stacked Astros lineup?

If he could keep the same extra patient approach at the plate while also getting away from the "hit the ball on the ground at all costs" philosophy of Chicago so that a few of his home runs came back, he's basically a 5 win 1b. If he avoids injury, he's at a place with coaches who have a history of pushing players in that direction. 

[MEANS]

13 minutes ago, T R U said:

The Jose Abreu has declined crowd is really fascinating to me. Abreu was a 4 win player on our shitty team, what do you think hes going to do next season in the middle of that stacked Astros lineup?

He'll do fine, look at their lineup and how they have performed. Now look at ours and how it performed. 

[T R U]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If he could keep the same extra patient approach at the plate while also getting away from the "hit the ball on the ground at all costs" philosophy of Chicago so that a few of his home runs came back, he's basically a 5 win 1b. If he avoids injury, he's at a place with coaches who have a history of pushing players in that direction. 

I think he definitely hits more HR's with that 315 FT left field, as well as those liners that are going to bounce off the big wall out there for doubles.

He will be better than Vaughn next year, pretty confident in that.

[ChiSox59]

23 minutes ago, T R U said:

I think he definitely hits more HR's with that 315 FT left field, as well as those liners that are going to bounce off the big wall out there for doubles.

He will be better than Vaughn next year, pretty confident in that.

For 27.85x the cost.  That is what matters.  The Sox can get similar production for 3.5% of the cost AND improve their OF defense measurably while doing it by putting AV at his natural position.  

The "I don't understand how the Sox can move on from Abreu" crowd is fascinating to me. 

[Tony]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

For 27.85x the cost.  That is what matters.  The Sox can get similar production for 3.5% of the cost AND improve their OF defense measurably while doing it by putting AV at his natural position.  

The "I don't understand how the Sox can move on from Abreu" crowd is fascinating to me. 

No it's not. And you know that. 

[ChiSox59]

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

No it's not. And you know that. 

I was responding to this post from @T R U.

But yes, you're right.  Its not fascinating because it makes little sense when you take a step back and put everything into consideration.  The FO put themselves in a position that retaining Abreu simply was not a realistic option.  Be mad at them for that, if you'd like.  But once the bed was made, Abreu just had no role on this team moving forward.  We couldn't spend our limited budget in 23 and another RH hitting 1B/DH.  Its not hard to wrap your head around.   

51 minutes ago, T R U said:

The Jose Abreu has declined crowd is really fascinating to me. Abreu was a 4 win player on our shitty team, what do you think hes going to do next season in the middle of that stacked Astros lineup?

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by ChiSox59

[2Deep]

50 minutes ago, T R U said:

The Jose Abreu has declined crowd is really fascinating to me. Abreu was a 4 win player on our shitty team, what do you think hes going to do next season in the middle of that stacked Astros lineup?

so you would have given Jose 3 years and 60 mil?

[T R U]

13 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

For 27.85x the cost.  That is what matters.  The Sox can get similar production for 3.5% of the cost AND improve their OF defense measurably while doing it by putting AV at his natural position.  

The "I don't understand how the Sox can move on from Abreu" crowd is fascinating to me. 

My post was purely about Jose Abreu's production next season, not about we should have paid him and what to do with Vaughn.

Mainly because the post I quoted said Abreu would need to take steroids to out perform Vaughn next year which is pretty ridiculous.

[T R U]

9 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

so you would have given Jose 3 years and 60 mil?

Unfortunately no, that wouldn't have worked for our budget or current roster construction.

I would rather have Jose and trade Vaughn though from a personal perspective.

[2Deep]

4 minutes ago, T R U said:

My post was purely about Jose Abreu's production next season, not about we should have paid him and what to do with Vaughn.

Mainly because the post I quoted said Abreu would need to take steroids to out perform Vaughn next year which is pretty ridiculous.

I agree with you here.

Jose will do fine in Houston BUT not paying him 3 years and 60 mil is the right move.  We need to solidify other positions and I think AV will be just fine  at 1B 

[ChiSox59]

5 minutes ago, T R U said:

My post was purely about Jose Abreu's production next season, not about we should have paid him and what to do with Vaughn.

Mainly because the post I quoted said Abreu would need to take steroids to out perform Vaughn next year which is pretty ridiculous.

Fair enough.  But AV in his natural position at $700k >>>>>>>>>>> Abreu on a 3/$58.5M deal for this team, all things considered. 

I struggle to understand how anyone could disagree with that.  

[T R U]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Fair enough.  But AV in his natural position at $700k >>>>>>>>>>> Abreu on a 3/$58.5M deal for this team, all things considered. 

I struggle to understand how anyone could disagree with that.  

This team would be better with Jose Abreu on it.

Having Vaughn at 1B and ditching Jose is not whats best for this team. Its whats best for this ownership group that refuses to push all the chips in for a contender.

So yeah, you are right, with the way the front office wants to operate we could not realistically bring Jose back.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, T R U said:

This team would be better with Jose Abreu on it.

Having Vaughn at 1B and ditching Jose is not whats best for this team. Its whats best for this ownership group that refuses to push all the chips in for a contender.

So yeah, you are right, with the way the front office wants to operate we could not realistically bring Jose back.

I do not agree in the slightest.  This team is not better paying Abreu $20M in his decline phase and playing a comparable bat that is an awful OF in the OF to keep Abreu on the roster.

If you want to ignore the reality of the situation, sure having Abreu is better than not.  But, circumstance is fairly important in this instance. 

[T R U]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I do not agree in the slightest.  This team is not better paying Abreu $20M in his decline phase and playing a comparable bat that is an awful OF in the OF to keep Abreu on the roster.

If you want to ignore the reality of the situation, sure having Abreu is better than not.  But, circumstance is fairly important in this instance. 

Well, again, I am not trying to justify paying Abreu $60 million dollars and putting Vaughn in the OF again or trading him. That's what I would have preferred they do, but you're right that was never going to happen. I am just saying, player to player, the team would be better with Abreu on it.