What should the club do about catcher?

[hogan873]

I would think that finding a solution for 2B might be a bigger priority.  However, if the team was indeed in on Murphy, they may not be as confident about the catching situation.  I don't see them being able to do both unless some crazy trade(s) occur (like the McCann/Escobar - Leury/Kelly thought).

I'd be surprised if they made a move for a someone who would be the primary catcher.  Unless they decide to dump Grandal somehow, that would leave Yasmani as the backup C/1B/DH.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

8 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

 

If you want to know why the Sox have been sniffing around catchers, here it is. 

Hahn needs to get his head out of his vagina and close on something.  They can't go into the season expecting to get anything out of this guy.  He's toast.

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Hahn needs to get his head out of his vagina and close on something.  They can't go into the season expecting to get anything out of this guy.  He's toast.

[Vote4Pedro]

19 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Hahn needs to get his head out of his vagina and close on something.  They can't go into the season expecting to get anything out of this guy.  He's toast.

Yep he’s done. Doc recommends surgery and yaz doesn’t listen to advice. Magic powers aren’t going to heal that problem. 

[Chicago White Sox]

Sounds like the McCann for Leury trade fell through ???

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sounds like the McCann for Leury trade fell through ???

Huh? lol

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Bob Sacamano said:

Huh? lol

I won’t post the tweet to avoid giving him more attention, but that Happy Man dude claims the McCann for Leury trade fell through over “monetary reasons”.

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I won’t post the tweet to avoid giving him more attention, but that Happy Man dude claims the McCann for Leury trade fell through over “monetary reasons”.

Yeah that seems like he would be throwing s%*# at a wall. But I can see money being an issue between these two: one team is working on a budget and the other is trying to cut salary anywhere it can since they are paying a huge tax anyway.

[Tnetennba]

49 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Hahn needs to get his head out of his vagina and close on something.  They can't go into the season expecting to get anything out of this guy.  He's toast.

Vaginas are way stronger and resilient than this guy.  No need to insult women by lumping in Hahn.  

[Tnetennba]

So on top of bad knees and legs, his back needs surgery.  Yet he kept hurting the team by “playing”.  I don’t know if I could loathe him more.  Just retire dude. 

[Balta1701]

Just to point this out…if Grandal’s back was in such bad shape last year that it dramatically limited his performance…

Grandal went on the IL midseason. They called up Zavala to replace him. Although some of it was luck, Zavala was surprisingly good and had improved on blocking the plate, his biggest issue from the previous year. But, Zavala was out of options, so they couldn’t release him.

They had another catcher, Reese McGuire, who wasn’t special with the bat but was quality on defense. He also had no options remaining.

When Grandal came off the IL, they had no choice but to move one of them, and so Reese was traded to Boston for Diekman.

Had Grandal been moved to the 60 day IL and told to come back after fully rehabbing his back, the Sox wouldn’t be stuck with Diekman’s money, and they’d have an extra rotation catcher who had a strong second half already. If Grandal’s back wasn’t healthy enough to start this year, which seems possible, they wouldn’t have to panic. 

Just another case where rushing a guy back from injury cascaded through the whole roster.

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Just to point this out…if Grandal’s back was in such bad shape last year that it dramatically limited his performance…

Grandal went on the IL midseason. They called up Zavala to replace him. Although some of it was luck, Zavala was surprisingly good and had improved on blocking the plate, his biggest issue from the previous year. But, Zavala was out of options, so they couldn’t release him.

They had another catcher, Reese McGuire, who wasn’t special with the bat but was quality on defense. He also had no options remaining.

When Grandal came off the IL, they had no choice but to move one of them, and so Reese was traded to Boston for Diekman.

Had Grandal been moved to the 60 day IL and told to come back after fully rehabbing his back, the Sox wouldn’t be stuck with Diekman’s money, and they’d have an extra rotation catcher who had a strong second half already. If Grandal’s back wasn’t healthy enough to start this year, which seems possible, they wouldn’t have to panic. 

Just another case where rushing a guy back from injury cascaded through the whole roster.

There were posters here (myself included) who in like late August or in September said they should have just shut him down, along with Robert who couldn't even swing a bat. Really wish they would have.

[Timmy U]

To be fair, McGuire directly credited Boston's better coaching for his improvement in the second half.  Apparently, the Red Sox use analytics, which have been banned south of Madison by city ordinance.

[Tnetennba]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Just to point this out…if Grandal’s back was in such bad shape last year that it dramatically limited his performance…

Grandal went on the IL midseason. They called up Zavala to replace him. Although some of it was luck, Zavala was surprisingly good and had improved on blocking the plate, his biggest issue from the previous year. But, Zavala was out of options, so they couldn’t release him.

They had another catcher, Reese McGuire, who wasn’t special with the bat but was quality on defense. He also had no options remaining.

When Grandal came off the IL, they had no choice but to move one of them, and so Reese was traded to Boston for Diekman.

Had Grandal been moved to the 60 day IL and told to come back after fully rehabbing his back, the Sox wouldn’t be stuck with Diekman’s money, and they’d have an extra rotation catcher who had a strong second half already. If Grandal’s back wasn’t healthy enough to start this year, which seems possible, they wouldn’t have to panic. 

Just another case where rushing a guy back from injury cascaded through the whole roster.

I don’t see it as rushing back so much as more IL and injury mismanagement.   I agree with your premise though.  Had they put him on the 60 day they would have more options at catcher now and wouldn’t be stuck with even more bloated bullpen salary.  More proof that Hahn is just really bad at this. 

[Tnetennba]

3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

There were posters here (myself included) who in like late August or in September said they should have just shut him down, along with Robert who couldn't even swing a bat. Really wish they would have.

Robert couldn’t even swing two handed.  Holy s%*# I had blocked that out.  The level of dumb that went on is astounding. 

[SoxBlanco]

25 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Just to point this out…if Grandal’s back was in such bad shape last year that it dramatically limited his performance…

Grandal went on the IL midseason. They called up Zavala to replace him. Although some of it was luck, Zavala was surprisingly good and had improved on blocking the plate, his biggest issue from the previous year. But, Zavala was out of options, so they couldn’t release him.

They had another catcher, Reese McGuire, who wasn’t special with the bat but was quality on defense. He also had no options remaining.

When Grandal came off the IL, they had no choice but to move one of them, and so Reese was traded to Boston for Diekman.

Had Grandal been moved to the 60 day IL and told to come back after fully rehabbing his back, the Sox wouldn’t be stuck with Diekman’s money, and they’d have an extra rotation catcher who had a strong second half already. If Grandal’s back wasn’t healthy enough to start this year, which seems possible, they wouldn’t have to panic. 

Just another case where rushing a guy back from injury cascaded through the whole roster.

I feel like this is easy to say in hindsight.  They were attempting to make a comeback in the division.  They needed a lefty bat with some pop.  During Grandal's rehab, he had a combined OPS of 1.235 between Birmingham and Charlotte, and it looked like he had some pop. He hit a few home runs during his short, 12-game rehab stint.  There was no indication that he was toast, and the Sox really needed his bat.

The year before, he came back from an injury in late August and completely carried the offense for the final month of the regular season. It was worth taking the risk that he could do it again.  Yes, it turned out that it was a horrible idea, but at the time, I don't think it was a bad decision.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said:

I feel like this is easy to say in hindsight.  They were attempting to make a comeback in the division.  They needed a lefty bat with some pop.  During Grandal's rehab, he had a combined OPS of 1.235 between Birmingham and Charlotte, and it looked like he had some pop. He hit a few home runs during his short, 12-game rehab stint.  There was no indication that he was toast, and the Sox really needed his bat.

The year before, he came back from an injury in late August and completely carried the offense for the final month of the regular season. It was worth taking the risk that he could do it again.  Yes, it turned out that it was a horrible idea, but at the time, I don't think it was a bad decision.

There was "no indication he was toast" except for the medical imaging showing displaced disks in his back and the doctors who recommended surgery as a consequence. 

[Chicago White Sox]

39 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

So on top of bad knees and legs, his back needs surgery.  Yet he kept hurting the team by “playing”.  I don’t know if I could loathe him more.  Just retire dude. 

I generally agree with your views, but I think you’re way off-base here.  We should want more guys like Grandal who are determined to play through their injuries.  It’s the manager’s job to determine if a guy is healthy enough to contribute.  Blame Tony or Hahn for not forcing him to the DL and/or finding alternatives to take on his role.

[Chicago White Sox]

37 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

To be fair, McGuire directly credited Boston's better coaching for his improvement in the second half.  Apparently, the Red Sox use analytics, which have been banned south of Madison by city ordinance.

Who needs analytics when you have a Jerry Narron to solve all our catching problems.  Speaking of which, did you simply eliminate his position as part of the La Russa fall-out?

[Tnetennba]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I generally agree with your views, but I think you’re way off-base here.  We should want more guys like Grandal who are determined to play through their injuries.  It’s the manager’s job to determine if a guy is healthy enough to contribute.  Blame Tony or Hahn for not forcing him to the DL and/or finding alternatives to take on his role.

That' valid.  They definitely didn't have strong leadership, or any leadership last year for that matter.  Someone needed to save him from himself as he wasn't doing anyone any favors by playing.

[SoxBlanco]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

There was "no indication he was toast" except for the medical imaging showing displaced disks in his back and the doctors who recommended surgery as a consequence. 

And sometimes players can play through injuries, which is exactly what he showed in his rehab stint.

Should we have shut down Hendriks also because of his UCL?

[Chicago White Sox]

57 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Just to point this out…if Grandal’s back was in such bad shape last year that it dramatically limited his performance…

Grandal went on the IL midseason. They called up Zavala to replace him. Although some of it was luck, Zavala was surprisingly good and had improved on blocking the plate, his biggest issue from the previous year. But, Zavala was out of options, so they couldn’t release him.

They had another catcher, Reese McGuire, who wasn’t special with the bat but was quality on defense. He also had no options remaining.

When Grandal came off the IL, they had no choice but to move one of them, and so Reese was traded to Boston for Diekman.

Had Grandal been moved to the 60 day IL and told to come back after fully rehabbing his back, the Sox wouldn’t be stuck with Diekman’s money, and they’d have an extra rotation catcher who had a strong second half already. If Grandal’s back wasn’t healthy enough to start this year, which seems possible, they wouldn’t have to panic. 

Just another case where rushing a guy back from injury cascaded through the whole roster.

I mean, it’s possible they didn’t like Reese in the clubhouse and wanted to move on from him regardless.  Usually guys that jerk off in parking lots are a little on the weird side.  He also had a 54 wRC+ with us which is unplayable despite his defense.  Regardless, there was almost zero chance we were going to keep two backup catchers without options on the 40 man roster all off-season.  One of them was likely to be traded before spring training.  Not sure Grandal coming back from injury is having this butterfly effect you think it is.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Chicago White Sox

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I mean, it’s possible they didn’t like Reese in the clubhouse and wanted to move on from him regardless.  Usually guys that jerk off in parking lots are a little on the weird side.  He also had a 54 wRC+ with us which is unplayable despite his defense.  Regardless, there was almost zero chance we were going to keep two backup catchers without options on the 40 man roster all-season.  One of them was likely to be traded before spring training.  Not sure Grandal coming back from injury is having this butterfly effect you think it is.

And yet, the same site that says he was a 54 wRC+ catcher also says he was a 0.4 fWAR catcher, which over the course of a full year would put him on pace to be just about an average catcher if he played a full year.

And on top of that, they replaced him with Yasmani Grandal, who was coming back with a totally playable 58 wRC+ on the season to that point and who had not been given nearly enough time to try to rehab a major back problem. I mean, how can you not take that massive offensive upgrade? 

[Bob Sacamano]

22 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I generally agree with your views, but I think you’re way off-base here.  We should want more guys like Grandal who are determined to play through their injuries.  It’s the manager’s job to determine if a guy is healthy enough to contribute.  Blame Tony or Hahn for not forcing him to the DL and/or finding alternatives to take on his role.

I agree to an extent but man I wouldn't f*** around with a back injury. Incompetent management/front office.

[ShoeLessRob]

1 hour ago, Timmy U said:

To be fair, McGuire directly credited Boston's better coaching for his improvement in the second half.  Apparently, the Red Sox use analytics, which have been banned south of Madison by city ordinance.

Lightfoot strikes again!