What should the club do about catcher?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

Ok as a doc and guy who has also dealt with severe back issues, I will add a few things.  One, listen to the interview.  The guy was truly trying to help the team and gave and is giving his all.  We can disagree in hindsight on his decisions but I can't disagree  with the effort or some of the thoughts behind his decisions.

RE backs and surgery.  In most instances, surgery is the last option.  You try to rest it and rehab it which is pretty much impossible during a season and worse as a catcher.  It was not mentioned in the podcast but he probably had (or should have had) epidural steroid injections at the level of the disc bulges.  I lived on LESBs for about 30 years while playing significant golf and working until they quit helping.  Originally, they were amazingly helpful.  One a year made everything better but no two backs are the same and no surgeon can guarantee an outcome.  Many back surgeries are a coin flip and some people do get worse after surgery.  If you talk to someone about to have their fourth operation, they all say "I wish I never let them do the first one".  So avoiding surgery is worth trying.  Backs are very different outcome wise from necks.  Very few professional athletes have back surgeries and return to previous form.  Being a world class athlete is hard lol.

So what about minor invasive surgery like the kind done now for herniated discs. Not sure of the difference between a bulging disc and a herniated disc and  not asking for a a full report but are these micro surgeries the kind you are talking about that people regret later ? Are you recommending epidurals in the case of herniated discs over mico-surgery ? I understand each person is different and backs are so complicated and nerve damage can severely mess with your legs .

 I never understood how rest or rehab helps a herniated disc. That can't un-herniate it but many have jobs and job functions that led to the problem in the 1st place and they just end up repeating that abusive cycle .

Edited December 23, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Heads22]

Speaking purely out of my ass here, but I've read people on here talk about back surgery, and I've seen athletes talk about it, and it really seems like last resort and you don't want to do it unless its the last option.

[BamaDoc]

4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I’m not going to begrudge him not immediately having back surgery, you outline why quite well.

I still Question the White Sox rushing him back after only 6 weeks while he also needed to rehab the hamstring and then trading away a catcher and taking on salary to clear his big league roster spot when his back was in such rough shape.

From the interview,he sounds like a guy with a huge desire to try and help the team and gutting it out like Abreu. Sometimes someone has to step in and protect the player from himself. 

[BamaDoc]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So what about minor invasive surgery like the kind done now for herniated discs. Not sure of the difference between a bulging disc and a herniated disc and  not asking for a a full report but are these micro surgeries the kind you are talking about that people regret later ? Are you recommending epidurals in the case of herniated discs over mico-surgery ? I understand each person is different and backs are so complicated and nerve damage can't severely mess with your legs .

 I never understood how rest or rehab helps a herniated disc. That can't un-herniate it but many have jobs and job functions that led to the problem in the 1st place and they just end up repeating that abusive cycle .

In simple terms, an injury can create an inflammatory process and swelling. In the case of a bulging disc, if it pushes on the nerve it can create issues. The nerve exiting by the disc is made up of millions of nerve fibers which include pain sensors, sensation,hot,cold ,the ability to know where your limb is in space (proprioception) , movement etc. Depending on which fibers are being squished can cause those fibers to not work correctly. When you rest, you are hoping for the inflammation to decrease. The same for nsaids and oral steroids (the anti inflammatory kind of steroids not the PED kind). An epidural steroid injection just puts a much higher concentration of medication as close to the inflamed area so hopefully it works better.  You are correct that if you do exactly the same activities as before there is a higher likelihood of the process repeating itself. You could try to prevent that by changing the mechanics of how you move/lift etc and perhaps trying to strengthen muscles around the spine to give it better support (core exercises)

If you have to have surgery, minimally invasive can be a good way to go depending on what you’re trying to fix. Some problems require bigger fixes. One of the biggest advantages of MIS is less disruption of surrounding muscles and structures so a less painful and faster recovery. This is all without seeing his scans, examining him,and talking to him. Remember that even with MIS there are risks of bleeding,infection,damaging the nerves and or surrounding tissue, being put to sleep, possibly turned over after asleep if going through the back etc etc.  The ten minutes to fix is perhaps just the surgeons part but even that may be an underestimate.  Any surgery creates scarring inside which can recreate many of the original problems .  
 

There is an old saying, minor surgery is any operation you have. Major surgery is anything done to me.  Again this is all simplified. I am glad he feels a lot better now and is very active. I hope he bounces back but hope they are careful with him. He certainly is at higher risks for issues but I admire his efforts to get back out there. 

[Jack Parkman]

3 hours ago, Heads22 said:

To answer the original question, you roll into the season with Yas and Seby. With limited resources, I'd rather try to address 2B or the outfield.

I don't see how you can do that. It's basically punting the catcher position. How can you possibly count on Grandal to do anything other than DH? 

[tray]

"Yasmani said doctors recommended surgery after discs in his back bulged and went completely out but Grandal said no and kept playing." ------------------------

Grandal had no business playing with multiple bulging discs according to his and/or team physicians.  Yaz chose to ignore  their advice and  chance it. No matter how that decision works out for him, he expects to  collect on the balance of his contract.

[ChiSox59]

7 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't see how you can do that. It's basically punting the catcher position. How can you possibly count on Grandal to do anything other than DH? 

Because he was hurt last season and in the past 5 years even including last he’s still easily been a top 3 catcher in the game. You’re paying him regardless. Eloy needs to DH and just lost his LF spot. You have to try to glean some value out of Yaz’s remaining season of control. 

[Tnetennba]

9 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't see how you can do that. It's basically punting the catcher position. How can you possibly count on Grandal to do anything other than DH? 

How can you count on him to DH?  If he is as cooked as everyone seems to think, myself included, his bat is not nearly good enough for what this team needs from a DH.  I’ve been calling him a DFA candidate all winter, and at best the backup C.  Putting Yaz at DH/backup 1B makes the team substantially worse IMO.  He either catches part time or finds a new team.  

[ChiSox59]

That said, if someone likes Seby and you can turn him into a SP with options that is an improvement on what Martin/Burke/Stiever can give you right now, the Hendriks for Jansen+ scenario begins to interest me more, especially if we can get one of their IF/OFs too (Biggio, Gurriel, Merrifield, Espinal).  All those guys would be useful on this roster.   

I am not completely sold on Seby's 2022, but perhaps other clubs wouldn't be either.  That said, have to imagine there is some interest in him league wide - he was pretty good last season.  On the flip side, I also could see Grifol and his staff improving Seby's receiving significantly. 

But all of these scenarios still include Yaz on the roster, at least to start.  How much he plays is going to depend on who the other catcher is, and how healthy/effective Yaz is.  I don't think we're going to see prime Yaz in 2023, but I certainly expect a vast improvement on his 2022.  Listen to that interview he gave recently - dude was playing on 1 leg, which led to other injuries, and it just sort of spiraled into a situation that was impacting him in every facet of the game.  It does sound like he's healthier right now - at least at the moment.