Winter Meetings Thread

[hi8is]

4 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

I expect nothing and still anticipate being disappointed.

What up twin?

[hogan873]

It'll be interesting to see what the first big move is during the meetings.  I would think Judge will be the biggest FA signing, but there are quite a few others who will be getting big contracts.

If Judge signs during the meetings, there will probably be a cascade of other moves quickly afterwards.  Still believe there will be lots of action even if he doesn't sign this week.

I think the Sox make some noise with a trade or two.  Hendriks and maybe Giolito would be the most likely to be dealt.  And I think they'll address the OF situation.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Gallo signed.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

I think they're gonna do something to address the catchers position.  

[Tnetennba]

I’m so over Yaz, but adding a catcher and not addressing OF feels very White Sox. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Tnetennba

[hogan873]

3 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I think they're gonna do something to address the catchers position.  

This would be interesting.  If they were to address the situation by getting someone who would be the primary catcher (Murphy, Contreras, Perez, etc.), what would be the plan for Grandal?

[Tnetennba]

3 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

This would be interesting.  If they were to address the situation by getting someone who would be the primary catcher (Murphy, Contreras, Perez, etc.), what would be the plan for Grandal?

I fear 1B/DH.  Eloy in LF, Colas in RF, Romy/Sosa 2B, problems “solved”.

[fathom]

10 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

I’m so over Yaz, but adding a catcher and not addressing OF feels very White Sox. 

I’m sure they will find a lefty hitting outfielder as well. My prediction is Brantley.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

I’m sure they will find a lefty hitting outfielder as well. My prediction is Brantley.

Great. Someone who should be a DH and will get hurt. He'll fit right in!

[ChiSox59]

12 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

This would be interesting.  If they were to address the situation by getting someone who would be the primary catcher (Murphy, Contreras, Perez, etc.), what would be the plan for Grandal?

He has already said he wants to just release Grandal.

Just dumping Grandal makes little sense unless you can offload more than a few million of his deal on someone else.  If you're paying Grandal $18.25 (or close) regardless, you may as well bring him into ST and see if he can be productive and healthy as a part time player.  While you can never put too much stock in offseason puff pieces, it does sound like his knees are doing better and he's working hard on getting healthy.  

[he gone.]

I dont mind Brantley at all. Actually all things considered in terms of pay, length of contract, cost of acquisition, etc. I almost prefer him. Benny is younger and seems like he's going to cash in on his best year going into FA. Paying him $14mm a year seems a bit over the top. Brantley brings a steady bat to the lineup and really outside a two year stretch was pretty consistent in playing time/staying healthy. Last year obviously not ...

This will be an unpopular comparison, but i kind of liken it to Melky. We're not going to get a ton of homers or anything above average defense, but you will get yourself 30 doubles, a .300BA, .360OBP and a solid #2 hitter. 

Not sure what the markets were predicting ... I'd say i'm happy with like a 1yr, 12mm contract, $2mm buyout and an option for a second year at like $9-10mm. Seems fair off shoulder issues. 

Hell give me that + Conforto for RF and tack on like $6mm to the above terms and I'd be ecstatic (relatively speaking as a Sox fan with a low bar). 

Call it an offseason right there. Your OF is Brantley/Robert/Conforto wtih Colas given as much time as needed. Eloy DH. In house 2b. And you roll. 

[Snopek]

30 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

I’m so over Yaz, but adding a catcher and not addressing OF feels very White Sox. 

Easy - Trade for Salvy and put him out in LF on the days he’s not catching.

[Quin]

2 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Easy - Trade for Salvy and put him out in LF on the days he’s not catching.

Hawk approves.

[Balta1701]

24 minutes ago, he gone. said:

I dont mind Brantley at all. Actually all things considered in terms of pay, length of contract, cost of acquisition, etc. I almost prefer him. Benny is younger and seems like he's going to cash in on his best year going into FA. Paying him $14mm a year seems a bit over the top. Brantley brings a steady bat to the lineup and really outside a two year stretch was pretty consistent in playing time/staying healthy. Last year obviously not ...

This will be an unpopular comparison, but i kind of liken it to Melky. We're not going to get a ton of homers or anything above average defense, but you will get yourself 30 doubles, a .300BA, .360OBP and a solid #2 hitter. 

Not sure what the markets were predicting ... I'd say i'm happy with like a 1yr, 12mm contract, $2mm buyout and an option for a second year at like $9-10mm. Seems fair off shoulder issues. 

Hell give me that + Conforto for RF and tack on like $6mm to the above terms and I'd be ecstatic (relatively speaking as a Sox fan with a low bar). 

Call it an offseason right there. Your OF is Brantley/Robert/Conforto wtih Colas given as much time as needed. Eloy DH. In house 2b. And you roll. 

You're right, that is an unpopular comparison. The defensive metrics did a very funky thing in 2015/2016 with the White Sox where they disagree a lot on whose fault their poor performance was - do they hang it on the pitchers or on the defenders - but Melky Cabrera was not worth the $39 million paid to him at the time. His OBP over that contract was .328, although he did give you the doubles. And he was just rotten defensively.

My problem with Brantley is that he's a lot like Eloy in 2 bad ways. I don't really want him in the field because he's not good out there and I'm worried when he's in the field that it will contribute to him getting hurt. Unlike Melky, he can absolutely hit without steroids, I think we can be confident of that. His OBP over the last 8 years or so is .370. However, he missed half of last season hurt, he missed nearly all of 2016 and half of 2017, only played 121 games in 2021 so even in the best of scenarios with him you have to expect he will spend some time on the IL.

If we had a DH spot available I'd be all for him, but my instinct is you will get better value for your dollars out of someone like Bellinger or Duvall who were plus defenders last year. You can't hide Brantley's and Eloy's gloves at the same time. 

[hogan873]

Kinda sucks with the meetings being on the west coast.  we probably won't start seeing rumors and news until late morning/early afternoon.  On the flip side, we could be seeing rumors and news well into the night.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

58 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

This would be interesting.  If they were to address the situation by getting someone who would be the primary catcher (Murphy, Contreras, Perez, etc.), what would be the plan for Grandal?

Grandal becomes your DH? If his knees can remain healthy and he is able to produce at pre-2022 levels, I wouldn’t hate it. I guess it comes down to what really was the root of his struggles - age or just bad legs that can’t handle the rigors of staying crouched for 9 innings.

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Grandal becomes your DH? If his knees can remain healthy and he is able to produce at pre-2022 levels, I wouldn’t hate it. I guess it comes down to what really was the root of his struggles - age or just bad legs that can’t handle the rigors of staying crouched for 9 innings.

And Eloy becomes your main LF? Ugh. 

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, hogan873 said:

This would be interesting.  If they were to address the situation by getting someone who would be the primary catcher (Murphy, Contreras, Perez, etc.), what would be the plan for Grandal?

If the Sox are addressing Catcher, glove first back up type should be the call. Murphy would cost too many assets, Contreras throws well but the rest of his defensive profile is not so hot, and he is expensive. And paying an aging Salvy what you would have to pay him should be a fireable offense.

[he gone.]

39 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You're right, that is an unpopular comparison. The defensive metrics did a very funky thing in 2015/2016 with the White Sox where they disagree a lot on whose fault their poor performance was - do they hang it on the pitchers or on the defenders - but Melky Cabrera was not worth the $39 million paid to him at the time. His OBP over that contract was .328, although he did give you the doubles. And he was just rotten defensively.

My problem with Brantley is that he's a lot like Eloy in 2 bad ways. I don't really want him in the field because he's not good out there and I'm worried when he's in the field that it will contribute to him getting hurt. Unlike Melky, he can absolutely hit without steroids, I think we can be confident of that. His OBP over the last 8 years or so is .370. However, he missed half of last season hurt, he missed nearly all of 2016 and half of 2017, only played 121 games in 2021 so even in the best of scenarios with him you have to expect he will spend some time on the IL.

If we had a DH spot available I'd be all for him, but my instinct is you will get better value for your dollars out of someone like Bellinger or Duvall who were plus defenders last year. You can't hide Brantley's and Eloy's gloves at the same time. 

admittedly i haven't watched brantley a ton in LF, but i think his WAR in the field was more or less breakeven most years. eloy was more around -1WAR. Not saying he's great or terrible, just if you're going to hide someone LF is generally the place to do so. if we can get a professional LEFT HANDED bat on a shorter, reasonable contract who gets on base? I'm for it. 

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If the Sox are addressing Catcher, glove first back up type should be the call. Murphy would cost too many assets, Contreras throws well but the rest of his defensive profile is not so hot, and he is expensive. And paying an aging Salvy what you would have to pay him should be a fireable offense.

I agree but watch the Sox somehow acquire Murphy for a Vaughn/Ramos led package and then go with a four headed 1B/DH monster of Grandal, Eloy, Sheets, & Burger.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, he gone. said:

admittedly i haven't watched brantley a ton in LF, but i think his WAR in the field was more or less breakeven most years. eloy was more around -1WAR. Not saying he's great or terrible, just if you're going to hide someone LF is generally the place to do so. if we can get a professional LEFT HANDED bat on a shorter, reasonable contract who gets on base? I'm for it. 

I think Brantley would be a perfectly acceptable 2nd move, like you suggested.  If you bring in Conforto + Brantley or Gallo + Brantley, it makes much more sense because if/when Brantley gets hurt, now you have Colas to fill the gap.  If Brantley is the primary addition, he's like option #6 or #7 for me. 

I also would be shocked if the Sox signed two FA OF to deals > $10M AAV.

[Tnetennba]

Pretending Yaz is anything but the backup C is a bad idea.  But I wouldn't put it past Hahn & Co to plug him in at DH and back up 1B, push Eloy back into LF, and call it a solution.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, he gone. said:

admittedly i haven't watched brantley a ton in LF, but i think his WAR in the field was more or less breakeven most years. eloy was more around -1WAR. Not saying he's great or terrible, just if you're going to hide someone LF is generally the place to do so. if we can get a professional LEFT HANDED bat on a shorter, reasonable contract who gets on base? I'm for it. 

Brantley shows as being worth -4.9 runs on defense according to Fangraphs, and he's been a defensive negative the last 2 seasons. As big of a worry, the dude has had two separate shoulder surgeries in his career, so it's worth pondering whether you want a lot of repetitive motions from raising his arms to catch fly balls and throwing the ball to the IF. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Pretending Yaz is anything but the backup C is a bad idea.  But I wouldn't put it past Hahn & Co to plug him in at DH and back up 1B, push Eloy back into LF, and call it a solution.

If it were me, I'd be imagining roughly equal time for Grandal and Seby, with Perez filling in as needed, and I think there's a good chance that's an average catching pair.

It's not what the White Sox are paying $18 million for, but that needs to be treated as a sunk cost. If you add extra money behind the plate, how much better than an average catching position is that going to make them?

[PorkChopExpress]

28 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If the Sox are addressing Catcher, glove first back up type should be the call. Murphy would cost too many assets, Contreras throws well but the rest of his defensive profile is not so hot, and he is expensive. And paying an aging Salvy what you would have to pay him should be a fireable offense.

I can't see how getting a catcher helps the Sox, unless it's in conjunction with other moves where they either get rid of Grandal, or some of our other 1B/DH guys thereby creating a need at catcher.  With that being said, though, how about any of the Toronto catchers, Jansen, Kirk, or Moreno?  I don't know anything about how they rate on the defensive side of things, and they're all RH, but I like the offensive potential and they're also 27, 24 and 22 YO, respectively.        

Edited December 5, 2022 by PorkChopExpress

[JoshPR]

18 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I agree but watch the Sox somehow acquire Murphy for a Vaughn/Ramos led package and then go with a four headed 1B/DH monster of Grandal, Eloy, Sheets, & Burger.

And Hahn would deserve to be fired. Signing Brantley would be stupid. If he's as bad as Eloy in the field. For that just keep Eloy in left and bring back abreu. The point of moving on from Abreu was to unclog the log jam 

Edited December 5, 2022 by JoshPR