Rodon to the Yankees, $162 million

[ChiSox59]

9 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

One year after the Sox wouldn't give Rodon a QO,he was paid $21,5 million by SF, and guaranteed $162 million by the Yankees. How do these clowns still have power to make baseball decisions?

It’s been outwardly reported that JR didn’t let his FO offer the QO.

[Flash]

4 hours ago, Rowand44 said:

I’m sure they know the Rodon and Judge contracts down the road will be rough but they’re trying to win the World Series in the next few years and they’ll worry about the other s%*# when they get there.

Also competing with the Mets for NYC supremacy. 

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

It’s been outwardly reported that JR didn’t let his FO offer the QO.

If you were Rick Hahn and you spent 1/3 of your day reading mean tweets about you, wouldn’t you leak that it was all someone else’s fault no matter what the reality was?

[ChiSox59]

40 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If you were Rick Hahn and you spent 1/3 of your day reading mean tweets about you, wouldn’t you leak that it was all someone else’s fault no matter what the reality was?

Sure, but it’s also extremely believable. JR has a clear history of getting in the way. 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Sure, but it’s also extremely believable. JR has a clear history of getting in the way. 

But it’s extremely believable because we hear it so often. I had a running gag in 2015-2016 of adding a ™️ logo to the phase “The GMs decisions can’t be Rick Hahn’s fault” because we heard so often that every bad decision must be the fault of someone else. How convenient is it that all last offseason we heard about how Hahn was carefully weighing the spectacular offers he got for Kimbrel and that letting Rodon walk was the smart move? Then suddenly both of those have backfired and then it leaks that Hahn had nothing to do with those decisions? The GM can’t hire the coach, all the player decisions are forced on him, but he doesn’t resign? Super convenient. 

I will believe Joe Kelly was pushed for hard by LaRussa because he was personally out there bragging about the signing at the time it happened. Leaks in hindsight about bad moves not being the fault of the GM from the same people who were saying what awesome decisions they were at the time? That could totally come from the GM.

[EloyJenkins]

3 hours ago, joejoesox said:

aren't these contracts covered by insurance though 

depends on the player's injury history and risk analysis by insurance companies. Way I have seen it is that most get covered around about 65-75% of their annual value, so the risk to club is not that much in the grand scheme of things. 

[GREEDY]

23 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Sure, but it’s also extremely believable. JR has a clear history of getting in the way. 

The way the sox internet personalities have created a shield for Rick Hahn is impressive, the way they stick to it on this particular issue is dumbfounding.  It is a fireable offense to miss by that much.

The front office MUST have told Jerry there was at least some chance he'd take the QO.  Jerry is likely stubborn but he loves money and he lit value on fire in this situation.  

The message should have been: "100-1 he takes the offer, and in that event we can move him without a problem, this is a no-brainer".  I'm almost certain this was not the message relayed IF big Jerry came forward and even made an impact on the decision... we don't even know he did actually intervene.  

Rodon hired someone to paint a White Sox Joker mural in a basement he probably already was moving out of, put it on IG and duped the boys.  

[GreenSox]

11 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Hahn should have been fired after 2015, 2016, and 2022 at least so far. 

That's three separate times. I know Balta will say he should have been fired 5+ times but we disagree on that. 

I admire your indulgence for 2013, when the team  went from 86 wins to 63 wins in the first year of Hahn's leadership.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

If you were Rick Hahn and you spent 1/3 of your day reading mean tweets about you, wouldn’t you leak that it was all someone else’s fault no matter what the reality was?

The one thing that you can get fired for in this organization is disloyalty.  Unless you think Rick is trying to get fired, I don't see him making that leak.  Why?  He doesn't need to.  As you said, he has infinite job security if he shuts up, so why care that much so as to risk your job?

[ChiSox59]

Haven't laid my two cents on this deal.....but IMO, guaranteeing Los that kind of $ is sort of crazy.  Of course the Yankees can afford it, and I am genuinely happy for him.  He is an easy dude to root for.  But if we are to assume the Sox will continue to operate as they always have, paying Rodon $27M a season over the next 6 seasons would certainly become a major issue.  Maybe not in 2023, but certainly before long.  I will take the under on average of 20 games started per season over the course of this deal.  You likely end up paying him $1.3-1.5M+ per start.  That's a lot.  

Coming off the 2020 season, before he took the 1/$3M deal with the Sox for 2021, I was pushing for the Sox to put an option heavy contract in front of him.  Something like $2/15M, with several options starting at like $12M on the back end, increasing each season.  Most here thought I was nuts --- would have worked out quite well for the Sox.  Of course Boras probably wouldn't have let Los take that, but at the time, he didn't exactly have a boatload of options as he was 1 more injury away from being an milb deal guy at the time.    

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Haven't laid my two cents on this deal.....but IMO, guaranteeing Los that kind of $ is sort of crazy.  Of course the Yankees can afford it, and I am genuinely happy for him.  He is an easy dude to root for.  But if we are to assume the Sox will continue to operate as they always have, paying Rodon $27M a season over the next 6 seasons would certainly become a major issue.  Maybe not in 2023, but certainly before long.  I will take the under on average of 20 games started per season over the course of this deal.  You likely end up paying him $1.3-1.5M+ per start.  That's a lot.  

Coming off the 2020 season, before he took the 1/$3M deal with the Sox for 2021, I was pushing for the Sox to put an option heavy contract in front of him.  Something like $2/15M, with several options starting at like $12M on the back end, increasing each season.  Most here thought I was nuts --- would have worked out quite well for the Sox.  Of course Boras probably wouldn't have let Los take that, but at the time, he didn't exactly have a boatload of options as he was 1 more injury away from being an milb deal guy at the time.    

And as always with these deals, the tax will come into play, so this really could be between $40 and $50 million a year in cost.

Also, I don't think Rodon was signing a middling deal.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And as always with these deals, the tax will come into play, so this really could be between $40 and $50 million a year in cost.

Also, I don't think Rodon was signing a middling deal.

I was referring to coming off 2020. Carlos had made 7 starts in 2 years, his results when he did pitch were awful and he had just gotten done embarrassing himself out of relief in the biggest game the White Sox had played in 11 years.  There’s a reason he took a 1/$3M deal.  

[southsider2k5]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

I was referring to coming off 2020. Carlos had made 7 starts in 2 years, his results when he did pitch were awful and he had just gotten done embarrassing himself out of relief in the biggest game the White Sox had played in 11 years.  There’s a reason he took a 1/$3M deal.  

Still. As a Boras guy, and one with a pretty big ego from all accounts, he was swinging for the fences.  I think if he was looking for safety, he would have taken one of those rookie deal long term contracts.

[Quin]

The fun thing is they could have offer Rodon something like 5/$100M last season and already would have had one year of elite pitching on the books.

[Jack Parkman]

39 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I admire your indulgence for 2013, when the team  went from 86 wins to 63 wins in the first year of Hahn's leadership.

I am of the opinion that GMs need 4-5 years to truly put their stamp on a roster. The 2013 season is more on Kenny than Rick. Hahn inherited a decent but aging roster. The wheels completely fell off in 2013. Abreu wasn't here yet and Sale/Quintana were the only building blocks for the future. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Balta1701]

16 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I am of the opinion that GMs need 4-5 years to truly put their stamp on a roster. The 2013 season is more on Kenny than Rick. Hahn inherited a decent but aging roster. The wheels completely fell off in 2013. Abreu wasn't here yet and Sale/Quintana were the only building blocks for the future. 

The big "addition" in the 2013 offseason was Jeff Keppinger, followed by Conor Gillaspie to try to fill the 3b hole they struggled with the previous season. Overpaying a utility guy and trying to use them to fill holes that should be filled by starters on your so-called competitive team? Why Rick Hahn would never do that. Nope. Definitely wouldn't acquire Gordon Beckham and Emilio Bonifacio to fill the 3b hole in 2015 left after trading away Semien, nor would he go with Micah Johnson and Yolmer Sanchez at 2b. Totally out of character for Rick Hahn, that must have been Kenny's fault, Rick Hahn never tries to use backups to fill starting positions. Rick Hahn also wouldn't dare try to patch infield holes with an over the hill Jimmy Rollins, Brett Lawrie, and Austin Jackson in 2016. That's just not the kind of thing he would do, those must have been forced by Reinsdorf. The rotating door of right fielders? That was all enforced by the scouting department, Rick Hahn definitely didn't bring in Adam Eaton in 2021 that kind of signing is totally not like him. Leury Garcia and Josh Harrison signed for $20 million to take over the 2b position? That was totally LaRussa, you can't ever find another example of Rick Hahn bringing in backups and utility guys to try to fill starting positions. 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

If you were Rick Hahn and you spent 1/3 of your day reading mean tweets about you, wouldn’t you leak that it was all someone else’s fault no matter what the reality was?

I guess if I was completely lacking in principles

[T R U]

39 minutes ago, Quin said:

The fun thing is they could have offer Rodon something like 5/$100M last season and already would have had one year of elite pitching on the books.

$100 million contract? Are you nuts. That's too rich for the Sox blood.

[Jack Parkman]

23 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The big "addition" in the 2013 offseason was Jeff Keppinger, followed by Conor Gillaspie to try to fill the 3b hole they struggled with the previous season. Overpaying a utility guy and trying to use them to fill holes that should be filled by starters on your so-called competitive team? Why Rick Hahn would never do that. Nope. Definitely wouldn't acquire Gordon Beckham and Emilio Bonifacio to fill the 3b hole in 2015 left after trading away Semien, nor would he go with Micah Johnson and Yolmer Sanchez at 2b. Totally out of character for Rick Hahn, that must have been Kenny's fault, Rick Hahn never tries to use backups to fill starting positions. Rick Hahn also wouldn't dare try to patch infield holes with an over the hill Jimmy Rollins, Brett Lawrie, and Austin Jackson in 2016. That's just not the kind of thing he would do, those must have been forced by Reinsdorf. The rotating door of right fielders? That was all enforced by the scouting department, Rick Hahn definitely didn't bring in Adam Eaton in 2021 that kind of signing is totally not like him. Leury Garcia and Josh Harrison signed for $20 million to take over the 2b position? That was totally LaRussa, you can't ever find another example of Rick Hahn bringing in backups and utility guys to try to fill starting positions. 

You truly think that GMs should only get a year or two before being on the hot seat? That is how terrible organizations are run. 

It was apparent by the end of 2015 that Hahn sucked. That is when he should have been fired. 

Learning on the job is allowed. Wanting a GM fired after his second year on the job is unreasonable, IMO. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[RibbieRubarb]

12 hours ago, maxjusttyped said:

When rebuild 3.0 inevitably starts in a year or 2, I'm sure he'll finally get that one right ?

Is that what that year's GM, Chris Getz, is planning?

[RibbieRubarb]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

The one thing that you can get fired for in this organization is disloyalty.  Unless you think Rick is trying to get fired, I don't see him making that leak.  Why?  He doesn't need to.  As you said, he has infinite job security if he shuts up, so why care that much so as to risk your job?

White Sox GMs never get fired...They just fade into VP roles. 
 

[Tnetennba]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

If you were Rick Hahn and you spent 1/3 of your day reading mean tweets about you, wouldn’t you leak that it was all someone else’s fault no matter what the reality was?

What glorified PR person wouldn’t?

Edited December 16, 2022 by Tnetennba

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You truly think that GMs should only get a year or two before being on the hot seat? That is how terrible organizations are run. 

It was apparent by the end of 2015 that Hahn sucked. That is when he should have been fired. 

Learning on the job is allowed. Wanting a GM fired after his second year on the job is unreasonable, IMO. 

I think that adding players, adding money, and winding up with a 63 win team should definitely be considered a potentially fireable offense. That is a totally clear signal that a guy had no idea what was going on, he failed at some of the most basic duties of a GM - having a good idea what his team was, and wow, same problems 10 years later! Who woulda guessed. 

Overly Harsh? Maybe, but a 63 win season when you think you're supposed to be competitive is a huge indictment of the guy in charge. Not every team is going to fire the GM after that, but I always thought that at least half of them would have. 

He extended his manager's contract after that 63 win season. He should have been stopped before he made things worse. 

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I think that adding players, adding money, and winding up with a 63 win team should definitely be considered a potentially fireable offense. That is a totally clear signal that a guy had no idea what was going on, he failed at some of the most basic duties of a GM - having a good idea what his team was, and wow, same problems 10 years later! Who woulda guessed. 

Overly Harsh? Maybe, but a 63 win season when you think you're supposed to be competitive is a huge indictment of the guy in charge. Not every team is going to fire the GM after that, but I always thought that at least half of them would have. 

He extended his manager's contract after that 63 win season. He should have been stopped before he made things worse. 

Based on what they did and the roster, I don't think they expected to be competitive. Being competitive in 2012 was more shocking than being terrible in 2013. 

[chitownsportsfan]

The CBA worked, and is working. The deals signed this offseason are being done quickly and without much resistance from the clubs. They know the money train is stopping for nothing, not even "bad contracts" or "luxury tax". 

Meanwhile the Sox' biggest contract ever handed out in FA remains Grandal. 

Hard out here for Sox fans.