mmmmmbeeer Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 Just trade everyone. At this point, given the signals this franchise and FO have fed us since the TLR hire, just fucking blow it up and let us enjoy our summer without wasting time on this joke of a franchise. The TIME, the MONEY, and the EMOTIONAL CAPITAL hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people have spent on this piece of s%*# franchise is enough. They don't care one bit about us or winning. It's 2022. We've yet to sign a player to a $100M+ contract. In what world is any team serious about competing have that lil' tidbit on their resume? f*** JR. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:16 AM, fathom said: Hendriks and a good prospect for Lux would be awesome, IMO Expand It would. But LAD really needs Lux atm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:23 AM, ChiSox59 said: It would. But LAD really needs Lux atm. Expand Yeah a couple infielders short at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCredeYes Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 Liam's contract is basically exactly market, it's difficult to imagine someone giving up decent controllable talent for a 34 year old closer with an elbow hanging by a thread signed to a market deal. Unless they're absolutely desperate for a closer I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:24 AM, JoeCredeYes said: Liam's contract is basically exactly market, it's difficult to imagine someone giving up decent controllable talent for a 34 year old closer with an elbow hanging by a thread signed to a market deal. Unless they're absolutely desperate for a closer I suppose. Expand It’s not tho. Some scrub reliever just got 2/$14M from LA. Diaz, the closest comp to Liam, got 5/$102. Liam would smash 2/$29M if he was a FA. At least 4/$65M range. He should have plenty of surplus value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 It's interesting to me how many people are clamoring for Lux, when a lot of those same posters typically are the ones who don't like the empty batting average profile. There's nothing in Lux's batted ball profile (or results post juiced ball) to suggest he's capable of even league average power. I don't mean that as a dig at all, it just seems like his prospect pedigree is doing some of the lifting for how people view him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:27 AM, ChiSox59 said: It’s not tho. Some scrub reliever just got 2/$14M from LA. Diaz, the closest comp to Liam, got 5/$102. Liam would smash 2/$29M if he was a FA. At least 4/$65M range. He should have plenty of surplus value. Expand It is worth noting that Hendriks was a 1.6 WAR reliever last year and is projected at 1.9. Diaz was a 3 WAR reliever last year. If they each matched their previous seasons (and both stayed healthy), Diaz would be cheaper per WAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCredeYes Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:27 AM, ChiSox59 said: It’s not tho. Some scrub reliever just got 2/$14M from LA. Diaz, the closest comp to Liam, got 5/$102. Liam would smash 2/$29M if he was a FA. At least 4/$65M range. He should have plenty of surplus value. Expand Only 2 guys in the league with a higher AAV at the position, 1 being Diaz, who is younger and better than Liam. There's very little if any surplus value in my humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 f*** Jerry. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:32 AM, JoeCredeYes said: Only 2 guys in the league with a higher AAV at the position, 1 being Diaz, who is younger and better than Liam. There's very little if any surplus value in my humble opinion. Expand Less about surplus value in this case and more about getting a dominant closer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 Hold on...louder for the filters... F U C K Jerry 2 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:31 AM, Balta1701 said: It is worth noting that Hendriks was a 1.6 WAR reliever last year and is projected at 1.9. Diaz was a 3 WAR reliever last year. If they each matched their previous seasons (and both stayed healthy), Diaz would be cheaper per WAR. Expand Diaz is better and younger. That’s why I projected he’d get 63% of what Diaz got. But the fact that there are no premium relievers on that FA market AND Liam’s contract is extremely reasonable, he should have a good bit of value. I wouldn’t trade him myself, but the value should be there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:34 AM, fathom said: Less about surplus value in this case and more about getting a dominant closer. Expand He’s not valueless by any means, but he isn’t bringing back a franchise reshaping big league player. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCredeYes Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 (edited) On 12/6/2022 at 2:34 AM, fathom said: Less about surplus value in this case and more about getting a dominant closer. Expand Agreed, just limits the teams that will be in on him. Some Twitter comments out there about attaching Liam to Yaz to dump his salary, now fully convinced that is the FO plan to make room for Salvy Perez's shitty deal. Edited December 6, 2022 by JoeCredeYes typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:35 AM, ChiSox59 said: Diaz is better and younger. That’s why I projected he’d get 63% of what Diaz got. But the fact that there are no premium relievers on that FA market AND Liam’s contract is extremely reasonable, he should have a good bit of value. I wouldn’t trade him myself, but the value should be there. Expand It depends on what “a good bit of value” means to you. I don’t think a competitive team is giving you one of their controlled starters or position players for example. I do believe you could get a good quality prospect return for that reason though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:36 AM, JoeCredeYes said: Agreed, just limits the teams that will be in on him. Some Twitter comments out there about attaching Liam to Yaz to dump his salary, now fully convinced that is the FO plan to make room for Salvy's Perez's shitty deal. Expand I could definitely see this as something the Dodgers would consider as a way to upgrade their bullpen without giving up any players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 1:45 AM, Eminor3rd said: We are now out of the "Rebuild Era" and back into the "Mark Teahen is our offseason acquisition Era" Expand Lol for real. Well said. Signing Melky and Drob on the same day might be coming too. 2-3 B-level guys that waste 25-40M. Clevinger, check. Next: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:24 AM, JoeCredeYes said: Liam's contract is basically exactly market, it's difficult to imagine someone giving up decent controllable talent for a 34 year old closer with an elbow hanging by a thread signed to a market deal. Unless they're absolutely desperate for a closer I suppose. Expand If he was a free agent, he could get more than he has left, and teams would have no problem losing the draft pick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 Gleyber Torres was a hell of a lot better last year than I thought. He's only 25 and isn't a FA until 2025. I'd for sure do this deal (especially if it adds Conforto or Nimmo), but why would the Yankees make this trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:52 AM, almagest said: Gleyber Torres was a hell of a lot better last year than I thought. He's only 25 and isn't a FA until 2025. I'd for sure do this deal (especially if it adds Conforto or Nimmo), but why would the Yankees make this trade? Expand Clevinger is the highest profile FA the Sox will sign this off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 I really don't trust Hahn and Co scouting and trading for young players. Nor is there player development in place to finish those young pieces. I can't believe Hahn was allowed to keep this job in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:52 AM, almagest said: Gleyber Torres was a hell of a lot better last year than I thought. He's only 25 and isn't a FA until 2025. I'd for sure do this deal (especially if it adds Conforto or Nimmo), but why would the Yankees make this trade? Expand Sox want lefty bats outside of catching is what I’ve heard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:57 AM, HOFHurt35 said: I really don't trust Hahn and Co scouting and trading for young players. Nor is there player development in place to finish those young pieces. I can't believe Hahn was allowed to keep this job in the first place. Expand He did make great trades for Sale, Q, and Eaton. But I do agree he has proven he shouldn’t be a MLB GM. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 2:22 AM, Balta1701 said: I’ve said this almost every time this came up: Liam Hendriks was way more important to the 2022 White Sox than you thought. Starting in April with that losing streak, this team had a negative run differential. They outperformed their expected record base on one factor alone - their record in close games. I kept watching that the whole year and expecting it to correct and it never did. The White Sox finished tied with Cleveland for the 4th best record in baseball in 1-run games. Had they been a .500 team in 1-run games, they finish 6 or 8 games below .500 and in third place. Minnesota, for comparison, had a losing record in 1 run games and finished behind the White Sox despite a better run differential. Furthermore, the White Sox’s bullpen wasn’t special overall. They were 8th in bullpen WAR, 12th in ERA. Their bullpen was one that had no depth. If you got to the Sox’s middle relief, you often scored 3 or 4 runs. Expensive middle relievers couldn’t be counted on. But if you got to the 8th inning and the game was tight; the Sox would go to Graveman in the first half and Lopez in the second half and shut this game down. If you took Hendriks out of the 2022 White Sox and replaced him with a 5 win outfielder, I think that team still finishes at .500. The run differential evens out, but the record in close games drops to .500, and the end result is no gain. If you replaced Hendriks with Benintendi, I think the team is actually a couple games worse. Having seen how much they struggled in the 8th inning in 2021 (so much so that it led to the Kimbrel deal) and seeing how bad the middle relief was in 2022, I think this is the type of mistake that has an outsized impact. Not only do we drop more close games than we make up for with an OF, we also undermine any good emotions from the new coaching staff with losses in the 8th and 9th inning that are especially deflating emotionally. If you’re selling Hendriks, sell Giolito and Cease. You’ve already given up. Expand 100% agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/6/2022 at 3:01 AM, fathom said: Sox want lefty bats outside of catching is what I’ve heard Expand Hahn's quotes about what they were looking for out of 2nd base made it sound like he was describing Kolten Wong (which obviously won't happen now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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