Liam Hendriks coming up in trade discussions

[ChiSox59]

10 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Nah....CWS is right. If they dont trade TA and solve multiple roster needs cheaply in one shot, they have to create payroll space somehow in another way and his value should be high with the money RPs are getting. 

They made a decision to artificially set a tight budget and there's too much money in the pen. We are gonna have to rob Peter to pay Paul somehow to address needs, it's just a question of who is getting robbed and where the benefit will go. 

Liams $14M isn’t going to magically solve this rosters issues. 

[SoCalChiSox]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Liams $14M isn’t going to magically solve this rosters issues. 

Not by itself it won't, but in tandem with probably one other roster player trade they could probably address like 3-4 spots between freeing up cash and the actual return. 

 

 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Liams $14M isn’t going to magically solve this rosters issues. 

The idea is you trade him for Lux (or similar) which solves 2B and then  with that 14 mil you sign Conforto/Gallo and "solve" the OF and left handed hitting.  It could work and aboslutely improve the team.  If Kelly bounces back, this is still a fine bullpen

Edited December 7, 2022 by Squirmin' for Yermin

[Chicago White Sox]

18 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

The other options would include trading players that aren’t part of the projected 26 man roster

I think you may have to do both potentially.

[ChiSox59]

5 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

The idea is you trade him for Lux (or similar) which solves 2B and then  with that 14 mil you sign Conforto/Gallo and "solve" the OF and left handed hitting.  It could work and aboslutely improve the team.  If Kelly bounces back, this is still a fine bullpen

Yah, I get the thought process obviously.  I jsut think the we "need to move Liam" bit is a little overdone.  

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

The idea is you trade him for Lux (or similar) which solves 2B and then  with that 14 mil you sign Conforto/Gallo and "solve" the OF and left handed hitting.  It could work and aboslutely improve the team.  If Kelly bounces back, this is still a fine bullpen

The key part to all of this remains having a competitive team be willing to give up multiple years of a cost-controlled position player for an expensive closer. I can't say that it won't happen, but GMs on competitive rosters don't get there by making desperate overpay trades for closers in the offseason, especially not ones that hurt their lineup that day. They might do it at the trade deadline and pay a lot for one then (again though without giving up a big league player), but for the most part in the offseason they sign relievers as needed while understanding that they don't know how their bullpen will shake out during the first half. 

[pcq]

13 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Liams $14M isn’t going to magically solve this rosters issues. 

No worries I read the Sox are just looking for prospects. The roster will hardly be disturbed.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yah, I get the thought process obviously.  I jsut think the we "need to move Liam" bit is a little overdone.  

I think the best path to improving the team, since Jerry refuses to spend money is dealing one of Hendriks or Graveman.  Graveman would be a dump that just opens his money up for another signing.  Hendriks allows you to solve an issue via the trade.  I'd prefer the Graveman route personally

[LittleHurtCG]

Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I think the best path to improving the team, since Jerry refuses to spend money is dealing one of Hendriks or Graveman.  Graveman would be a dump that just opens his money up for another signing.  Hendriks allows you to solve an issue via the trade.  I'd prefer the Graveman route personally

How about they keep both Hendricks and Graveman? They are your closer and 8th inning guy in 2023. The Sox are a team with World Series aspirations. If the budget is tapped out then it is time to trade away some of the top prospects. 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The key part to all of this remains having a competitive team be willing to give up multiple years of a cost-controlled position player for an expensive closer. I can't say that it won't happen, but GMs on competitive rosters don't get there by making desperate overpay trades for closers in the offseason, especially not ones that hurt their lineup that day. They might do it at the trade deadline and pay a lot for one then (again though without giving up a big league player), but for the most part in the offseason they sign relievers as needed while understanding that they don't know how their bullpen will shake out during the first half. 

I disagree. A team like the Dodgers doesn’t want to go into a season without a high end closer. There is no one comparable to Hendriks available in free agency and most high end closers are already on teams expecting to compete, and therefore unavailable. Scarcity is definitely in our favor here. Dodgers, Phillies, and I guess the Rangers must be expecting to compete as well, but lack a legit closer. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

7 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

How about they keep both Hendricks and Graveman? They are your closer and 8th inning guy in 2023. The Sox are a team with World Series aspirations. If the budget is tapped out then it is time to trade away some of the top prospects. 

We have enough bullpen money tied up.  Would be ideal to free some of that up.  After the disaster of 2022, not sure if the Sox can afford to trade prospects at this moment.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

If you're cutting payroll, trading an all star for guys who aren't even in the Dodgers top 10 prospects to fill roster holes, playing 3 rookies in your starting 9 (1 of whom is a borderline top 100 prospect in baseball), and you say you're not rebuilding, I got news for you.

Do I think the Sox have a legit shot at the playoffs ? Maybe.  Would I like to get young players ? Yes

DO I think the core can rebound enough to get excited about the Sox again and give us a shot at the playoffs.  Yes.

DO I think money and players from a Hendriks trade can help the Sox too ? Yes

 

Whats your plan? Should we just say rebuild now and end all discussion for those who want to think there's a road where things go well for 2023 ?

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Whats your plan? Should we just say rebuild now and end all discussion for those who want to think there's a road where things go well for 2023 ?

Yes. 

[southsider2k5]

47 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Liams $14M isn’t going to magically solve this rosters issues. 

Like I said yesterday, this theory means that the Sox have to do a LOT of things right in a very short period of time to not only acquire guys for him, but also to get something that fits into our holes, while not creating other holes.  For example, even if you get a close out of ReyLo and Graveman, or whoever else, who is taking those innings in middle relief?  For what relievers are signing for, it's not like it will be cheap to replace them anymore.

[LittleHurtCG]

18 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

We have enough bullpen money tied up.  Would be ideal to free some of that up.  After the disaster of 2022, not sure if the Sox can afford to trade prospects at this moment.

Why can't the Sox afford to trade prospects either right now or at the trade deadline? The competive window to win is 2023 and maybe 2024. There is absolutely not going to be any kind of sustained success here. That ship has totally sailed. The Sox need to go all out to win a world series the next two years. They are going to be really bad in 3-4 years no matter what. 

[SonofaRoache]

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Do I think the Sox have a legit shot at the playoffs ? Maybe.  Would I like to get young players ? Yes

DO I think the core can rebound enough to get excited about the Sox again and give us a shot at the playoffs.  Yes.

DO I think money and players from a Hendriks trade can help the Sox too ? Yes

 

Whats your plan? Should we just say rebuild now and end all discussion for those who want to think there's a road where things go well for 2023 ?

If you aren't going to spend money with the big boys then you need to rebuild again. The only shot we have for sustained success is if almost all of our young guys reach their full potential. If too many don't, then we are screwed. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

23 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yes. 

Sorry if I am among those who don't want to enter Jerry's Inferno just yet.

So you don't believe Kopech, Lynn, and Giolito can all be better in 2023 ?

You don't think Clevinger can be good ?

Same question of Eloy, Moncada, Grandal, Anderson, Robert, Vaughn .

You don't believer Colas will be worth morein 2022 than the combined -.3 WAR that Vaughn and Sheets put up as OF's in 2021 ?

Of those 11 guys I just mentioned how many would it take rebounding or playing significantly enough for the Sox to make the playoffs ?

Edited December 7, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[fathom]

Just now, SonofaRoache said:

If you aren't going to spend money with the big boys then you need to rebuild again. The only shot we have for sustained success is if almost all of our young guys reach their full potential. If too many don't, then we are screwed. 

Part of me thinks it wouldn’t be the worst thing to rebuild and just hope by the time the window is open, they have a new owner. I’m not seeing anything close to a title contending roster now.

[LittleHurtCG]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Sorry if I am among those who don't want to enter Jerry's Inferno just yet.

So you don't believe Kopech, Lynn, and Giolito can all be better in 2023 ?

You don't think Clevinger can be good ?

Same question of Eloy, Moncada, Grandal, Anderson, Robert, Vaughn .

You don't believer Colas will be worth more than the combined -.3 WAR that Vaughn and Colas put up as OF's next year.

Of those 11 guys I just mentioned how many would it take rebounding or playing significantly enough for the Sox to make the playoffs ?

This is the only sane post around here right now. 

Another job tank is never ever going to work with this FO and ownership group. Again, another tank job will never ever work

The Sox need to add around the edges on this roster and at least get Sheets and Eloy out of the outfield. They are going to be in contention around the trade deadline most likely.  Push in Montogomery and whatever else you can then. 

[Jack Parkman]

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Sorry if I am among those who don't want to enter Jerry's Inferno just yet.

So you don't believe Kopech, Lynn, and Giolito can all be better in 2023 ?

You don't think Clevinger can be good ?

Same question of Eloy, Moncada, Grandal, Anderson, Robert, Vaughn .

You don't believer Colas will be worth more than the combined -.3 WAR that Vaughn and Colas put up as OF's next year.

Of those 11 guys I just mentioned how many would it take rebounding or playing significantly enough for the Sox to make the playoffs ?

Too much needs to go right. 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

I’d rather acquire the necessary players during the off season to help the Sox win during the first four months of the season. Waiting until the trade deadline to fill glaring holes makes zero sense to me

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

How else are you improving the team?

Some people only know  what they don't like and can't tell you what they like until they see what direction the wind is blowing. They only know your plan won't work but are too  afraid to submit a plan of their own .

That's why we keep seeing buy that or that FA but when told there's no money they tell us Grifol is the key or I don't believe they wont spend more  .

The Sox have to deconstruct somewhere because they fucked up the construction and if you deconstruct fully welcome to hoping Jerry dies and things get better ? That's just pitiful.

[black jack]

46 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

How about they keep both Hendricks and Graveman? They are your closer and 8th inning guy in 2023. The Sox are a team with World Series aspirations. If the budget is tapped out then it is time to trade away some of the top prospects. 

Or you know, extend the budget.  They're like 70 million below the luxury tax.

Spend the fucking money Jerry! 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Do I think the Sox have a legit shot at the playoffs ? Maybe.  Would I like to get young players ? Yes

DO I think the core can rebound enough to get excited about the Sox again and give us a shot at the playoffs.  Yes.

DO I think money and players from a Hendriks trade can help the Sox too ? Yes

 

Whats your plan? Should we just say rebuild now and end all discussion for those who want to think there's a road where things go well for 2023 ?

My version is play for the trade deadline. 

Right now, almost everyone on the White Sox has their value depressed other than Dylan Cease. This includes, in my eyes, Hendriks. On top of that, the roster is a mess. There is 1 OF on the roster who might play 120 games if we're lucky and 1 rookie. They lost ~10 WAR to free agency from a team that, on paper, was below .500 if not for the back end of their bullpen. And their schedule will not be as soft as last year's.

There is a path to them competing for a wild card, but even if they do everything right, the hole they have is so deep that it's bloody unlikely that they will actually have a genuine shot.

So...play for time. If they are legitimately in 4th place, ok fine don't do this. On paper, it just isn't likely, so take advantage of what does happen. Some guys are almost certain to be better by the trade deadline. Some guys are almost certain not to be. Some guys will get closer to their contracts ending. If you're a .500 team at the trade deadline, I don't care if you are only 3 games out of the wild card, you have 2 starters under contract for 2024, play for the future. Trade whoever you can trade for nearly full value. Hopefully Giolito and Hendriks have good first halves, maybe Anderson as well. Clear those guys out, move Lynn and Clevinger if they're having a good first half. Moncada, maybe? He's not under control for that long, so if he's movable maybe you clear the salary. Kelly, Graveman, Lopez, whoever else can be moved. Maybe you seriously listen on offers for Cease, but they have to be really good.

If they don't do this, the White Sox's mess is equally bad next offseason to where they are right now. Yes, they clear Grandal's contract. However, they have 2 starters under control. If they want to keep Lynn, they have an option on him, but keeping Lynn, Anderson, and Hendriks puts something like $150 million on the books! 

If they have come out of this season with a bunch of additional players, even if they're not great, and they've saved some money this year and they get themselves out of the hole for next offseason. Maybe then at least they have a shot, if their 4th and 5th starter and 1 OF are found in moves like that, then maybe they can spend $20 million on a starter and actually have a strong roster. On the other hand, if things go as poorly as last year with guys like Robert and Eloy, they have a head start on the harder decision of rebuilding, which will really be the only option if they're sitting there after another season with a negative run differential. 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

If I were the Sox and refusing to spend on free agents at this time, then I would either trade any package of prospects and guys on the edges of the 26 man roster, like Sheets, Burger or Crochet, necessary to acquire quality major league 2b and OFer, or I would blow the whole thing up. s%*# or get off the pot. Definitely wouldn’t sell a high end closer and then turn around and act like we’re trying to compete.