Liam Hendriks coming up in trade discussions

[he gone.]

35 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yoan is such a good 3B tho. Moncada to 2B and Batty to 3B is a major defensive downgrade in the infield. Obviously we’re getting cart in front of horse quite a bit here, but I just don’t love that idea. But it’s probably the only one that makes all the pieces fit. If Yoan doesn’t start hitting more, he’s gonna be a utility piece in his next deal anyway so he may not be against it. 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/arm-strength

Just to present the other side of the argument. I'm not sure of how Brett Baty grades out at 3B, however if you look at Moncada he was slightly above average in terms of arm strength and outs above average at 3B in 2022. If you go back and populate 2019-2022 (all of his main years at 3B) he grades out again in that same type of range. Definitely not in the Chapman/Hayes top guys, but more towards the middle of the pack, slightly better. 

However, if  you take his arm strength and put it at 2B, he's all of a sudden top of the pack next to essentially SS's playing 2B. Jean Segura, Bryson Stott, etc. (shocking, but didn't know this until reading the chart, Romy Gonzalez ranked as the second strongest arm in MLB at 2B!, whoa!)

However, that's not to say his range plays well. 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_average?type=Fielder&startYear=2016&endYear=2017&split=no&team=&range=year&min=100&pos=4&roles=&viz=show

Over the period of 2016 and 2017 at 2B Moncada was -2 for outs above average. It graded around Altuve. Unsure what happened in 2018 ... He graded out at the bottom. Daniel Murphy bottom. Someone with a better memory would have to remind me if he was injured that year or what was going on. 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_average?type=Fielder&startYear=2018&endYear=2018&split=no&team=&range=year&min=100&pos=4&roles=&viz=show

I absolutely think a Baty is a great return and would love him to be on the Sox, even if it costs Hendriks. That said, it depends on if you think you can get 2016/7 Moncada at 2B or if you're going to get 2018 Moncada. If he's going to have no range and the shift is banned? You're going to expose a big issue at 2B which won't help this team win. 2B are going to need to be more rangey than ever this year. 

Basically boiling it down, you better be confident that 2018 was an outlier or Moncada to 2B and Baty to 3B doesn't fit. It'd be more of the Vaughn/Sheets type of issues that have plagued this franchise. 

[he gone.]

Also, not that it's applicable to this thread, however, digging into those stats, Segura makes so much sense to make this a better team TODAY. His defense grades very well and is a reasonable price. I have a super soft spot for Romy and Sosa, though I also had a soft spot for Yolmer and Micah Johnson, so what do i know? Would love those guys to get an opportunity, but Segura makes so much sense if we can offload a Kelly or Leury contract somehow. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

3 minutes ago, he gone. said:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/arm-strength

Just to present the other side of the argument. I'm not sure of how Brett Baty grades out at 3B, however if you look at Moncada he was slightly above average in terms of arm strength and outs above average at 3B in 2022. If you go back and populate 2019-2022 (all of his main years at 3B) he grades out again in that same type of range. Definitely not in the Chapman/Hayes top guys, but more towards the middle of the pack, slightly better. 

However, if  you take his arm strength and put it at 2B, he's all of a sudden top of the pack next to essentially SS's playing 2B. Jean Segura, Bryson Stott, etc. (shocking, but didn't know this until reading the chart, Romy Gonzalez ranked as the second strongest arm in MLB at 2B!, whoa!)

However, that's not to say his range plays well. 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_average?type=Fielder&startYear=2016&endYear=2017&split=no&team=&range=year&min=100&pos=4&roles=&viz=show

Over the period of 2016 and 2017 at 2B Moncada was -2 for outs above average. It graded around Altuve. Unsure what happened in 2018 ... He graded out at the bottom. Daniel Murphy bottom. Someone with a better memory would have to remind me if he was injured that year or what was going on. 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_average?type=Fielder&startYear=2018&endYear=2018&split=no&team=&range=year&min=100&pos=4&roles=&viz=show

I absolutely think a Baty is a great return and would love him to be on the Sox, even if it costs Hendriks. That said, it depends on if you think you can get 2016/7 Moncada at 2B or if you're going to get 2018 Moncada. If he's going to have no range and the shift is banned? You're going to expose a big issue at 2B which won't help this team win. 2B are going to need to be more rangey than ever this year. 

Basically boiling it down, you better be confident that 2018 was an outlier or Moncada to 2B and Baty to 3B doesn't fit. It'd be more of the Vaughn/Sheets type of issues that have plagued this franchise. 

Or you turn Moncada into an everyday player swiss army knife.  Similar to Bryant with the Cubs.  Primary 2B, but will play 3B 1-2 a week plus give him an OF glove, and hell, give him a 1B glove. lol..  All in all, I wouldn't cement Moncada, the type of player he is, into the 3B hole IF I can get a prospect like Baty.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 minute ago, he gone. said:

Also, not that it's applicable to this thread, however, digging into those stats, Segura makes so much sense to make this a better team TODAY. His defense grades very well and is a reasonable price. I have a super soft spot for Romy and Sosa, though I also had a soft spot for Yolmer and Micah Johnson, so what do i know? Would love those guys to get an opportunity, but Segura makes so much sense if we can offload a Kelly or Leury contract somehow. 

Segura absolutely makes a ton of sense.  No one will argue that.  The problem is we have no money to spend.  

[bmags]

Baty may not be a plug in play guy in 2022.

But at that point you have a top 25 prospect to do what you will.

Either you suddenly have a pair of "left handed savages" to fit @SoCalChiSox's dreams in Colson and Baty, or a headliner to go after a Marte/Chisholm with a more appropriate swap...or even a Bryan Reynolds.

escobar is in fact your insurance.

but Baty is pretty damn athletic, and he also hit 21 homers in 106 games last year. He may even be your RFer of the future.

Point is, he's good, he's got power, he's got a dominant left hand.

I also don't think we get him.

But fun trade idea. 

You legit would have a future of potentially  Baty at 3rd, Colson at SS and Kath finding is way. 3 left handed prospects...be still my heart.

[Bob Sacamano]

7 minutes ago, he gone. said:

Also, not that it's applicable to this thread, however, digging into those stats, Segura makes so much sense to make this a better team TODAY. His defense grades very well and is a reasonable price. I have a super soft spot for Romy and Sosa, though I also had a soft spot for Yolmer and Micah Johnson, so what do i know? Would love those guys to get an opportunity, but Segura makes so much sense if we can offload a Kelly or Leury contract somehow. 

I’m on the Segura train. Think he’s a good fit for the Dodgers and Red Sox too though.

[Quin]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Baty may not be a plug in play guy in 2022.

But at that point you have a top 25 prospect to do what you will.

Either you suddenly have a pair of "left handed savages" to fit @SoCalChiSox's dreams in Colson and Baty, or a headliner to go after a Marte/Chisholm with a more appropriate swap...or even a Bryan Reynolds.

escobar is in fact your insurance.

but Baty is pretty damn athletic, and he also hit 21 homers in 106 games last year. He may even be your RFer of the future.

Point is, he's good, he's got power, he's got a dominant left hand.

I also don't think we get him.

But fun trade idea. 

You legit would have a future of potentially  Baty at 3rd, Colson at SS and Kath finding is way. 3 left handed prospects...be still my heart.

4 with Colas.

[bmags]

Just now, Quin said:

4 with Colas.

forgot he was left handed! I think I mix that up because of Cespedes.

[SoCalChiSox]

8 minutes ago, bmags said:

Baty may not be a plug in play guy in 2022.

But at that point you have a top 25 prospect to do what you will.

Either you suddenly have a pair of "left handed savages" to fit @SoCalChiSox's dreams in Colson and Baty, or a headliner to go after a Marte/Chisholm with a more appropriate swap...or even a Bryan Reynolds.

escobar is in fact your insurance.

but Baty is pretty damn athletic, and he also hit 21 homers in 106 games last year. He may even be your RFer of the future.

Point is, he's good, he's got power, he's got a dominant left hand.

I also don't think we get him.

But fun trade idea. 

You legit would have a future of potentially  Baty at 3rd, Colson at SS and Kath finding is way. 3 left handed prospects...be still my heart.

MOAR left handed savages!

MOAR!!!!!!!

[steveno89]

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

the TLR hire immediately fucked the window and we all knew it. Well... 80% of us

Missing out on Machado/Harper/Wheeler is really what screwed the rebuild, coupled with the TLR hire. 

I was open to the La Russa hire at the time, but the roster has enough issues of its own as well. 

[steveno89]

15 minutes ago, bmags said:

Baty may not be a plug in play guy in 2022.

But at that point you have a top 25 prospect to do what you will.

Either you suddenly have a pair of "left handed savages" to fit @SoCalChiSox's dreams in Colson and Baty, or a headliner to go after a Marte/Chisholm with a more appropriate swap...or even a Bryan Reynolds.

escobar is in fact your insurance.

but Baty is pretty damn athletic, and he also hit 21 homers in 106 games last year. He may even be your RFer of the future.

Point is, he's good, he's got power, he's got a dominant left hand.

I also don't think we get him.

But fun trade idea. 

You legit would have a future of potentially  Baty at 3rd, Colson at SS and Kath finding is way. 3 left handed prospects...be still my heart.

I agree

Fun idea, but I doubt the Mets are willing to part with Baty that easily. He has quite a bit of value on his own. 

[striker]

Maybe you don't keep Baty, you flip him to TB for Lowe.

[striker]

1 minute ago, striker said:

Maybe you don't keep Baty, you flip him to TB for Lowe.

NM, sounds like Lowe has back issues.

[SoxAce]

5 minutes ago, striker said:

Maybe you don't keep Baty, you flip him to TB for Lowe.

Chisholm.

[LittleHurtCG]

17 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Missing out on Machado/Harper/Wheeler is really what screwed the rebuild, coupled with the TLR hire. 

I was open to the La Russa hire at the time, but the roster has enough issues of its own as well. 

You nailed it. The emperor was exposed during the Harper/Machado offseason. The Sox showed then and there that they would never ever go all in on a top tier free agent. 

TLR was a bad hire, but the dude did win us a Central Division Championship. No manager in the history of the game was getting the Sox past Houston the last two years. 

[GreenSox]

6 minutes ago, striker said:

Maybe you don't keep Baty, you flip him to TB for Lowe.

Lowe is injured and a bad defender.
Tampa would hold a parade if they could get Baty for Lowe.
I just wouldn't trade Liam for anyone but young talent or a "premium" veteran player (not average; not an up and down player).

[Quin]

14 minutes ago, striker said:

Maybe you don't keep Baty, you flip him to TB for Lowe.

 

9 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Chisholm.

Bro if by some miracle you get Baty you keep the young, talented left hander without back issues

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Baty has to be included if Hendriks goes to the Mets. The Sox have all the leverage here. Mets aren’t willing to pay up for an elite reliever? Then you’re not getting Liam.

[Bob Sacamano]

Baty, Peterson, Parada, Escobar (Sox pay all of this and he plays 2B) for Hendriks?

A Hendriks trade actually makes his luxury tax number lesser.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Bob Sacamano

[SoCalChiSox]

5 minutes ago, Quin said:

 

Bro if by some miracle you get Baty you keep the young, talented left hander without back issues

This.

Savagery shouldn't be messed with.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

9 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

You nailed it. The emperor was exposed during the Harper/Machado offseason. The Sox showed then and there that they would never ever go all in on a top tier free agent. 

TLR was a bad hire, but the dude did win us a Central Division Championship. No manager in the history of the game was getting the Sox past Houston the last two years. 

Any manager would have gotten them to win the division that year.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Baty, Peterson, Parada, Escobar (Sox pay all of this and he plays 2B) for Hendriks?

Mets giving up WAY too much here. Baty and Escobar is already a big ask.

[bmags]

Trade hendriks to mets for baty, escobar, mccann

Flip baty, send to mets with escobar 1/2 salary for McNeil

[Quin]

1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Baty, Peterson, Parada, Escobar (Sox pay all of this and he plays 2B) for Hendriks?

A Hendriks trade actually makes his luxury tax number lesser.

I would join @bmags in the consumption of hats.

[Balta1701]

18 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

You nailed it. The emperor was exposed during the Harper/Machado offseason. The Sox showed then and there that they would never ever go all in on a top tier free agent. 

TLR was a bad hire, but the dude did win us a Central Division Championship. No manager in the history of the game was getting the Sox past Houston the last two years. 

The 2021 Astros were beatable enough that the Braves beat them. We had a serious lineup weakness in that they could throw righties against us to beat the White Sox’s righties, but that team was beatable. From there they added Verlander and upgraded their bullpen, plus Javier and Valdez grew up into stars, so yeah in 2022 they were just better.