Liam Hendriks coming up in trade discussions

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, he gone. said:

Call me crazy, but I like an angle like this. 

I even think we should be pursuing 3B. At this point Yoan Moncada is our worst contract and don't really care about his future with the team. He's getting paid a boatload and if we can get someone like a Vargas you can just slide Yo Yo to 2B. For all the hype and talk around his solid glove it doesn't great out THAT well. I'd be exploring all options whether that be a Jung or a Vargas, etc. Nothing would be off the table for me. 

Huh?  Moncada's glove grades out exceptionally well.  Yoan is a wizard at 3B.  Moving him off 3B to put a lesser defender there and downgrading two defensive positions on a team that is poor defensively is.....quite a take.  

Yoan's contract is very bad.  He has no trade value.  He is, however, an exceptionally talented player that does a ton of things well that this team is very poor at.  He also has significant untapped potential.  Let's at least ride out 2023 with the new coaching staff and see what it does for Yoan.  I am expecting a very different player (and attitude). 

[AJ'S Cousin]

13 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Absolutely agree. Cheap-ass JR. I love Liam, I would hate to see him moved. I also don’t see the reason a contending team trades their closer, and still has the intention of competing - ask the Phillies how well that worked for them not having a shut down pen.

I think if it nets us a Quality Right Fielder and 2nd Baseman i think it's worth it. I'd hate to see Hendriks go but he's slowed down just a bit. His fastball doesn't move like it used to. we all saw how far the ball goes when it gets hit because of no movement. Lopez and Crochet could possibly step in. Give me Reynolds or Conforto or Nimmo and sign Segura for 2nd base on a 2 year contract and I could live without Hendriks. His value is the Highest it's ev er going to be. 

[Baron]

1 minute ago, AJ'S Cousin said:

I think if it nets us a Quality Right Fielder and 2nd Baseman i think it's worth it. I'd hate to see Hendriks go but he's slowed down just a bit. His fastball doesn't move like it used to. we all saw how far the ball goes when it gets hit because of no movement. Lopez and Crochet could possibly step in. Give me Reynolds or Conforto or Nimmo and sign Segura for 2nd base on a 2 year contract and I could live without Hendriks. His value is the Highest it's ev er going to be. 

Letting Rick Hahn loose on free agency. Always works out. 

[Jose Abreu]

2 hours ago, fathom said:

With the Braves paying a lot for Iglesias, I don’t think they’re a good match. I saw someone mention the Rangers yesterday, and they seem like a good fit along with the Dodgers.

Pretty sure the Rangers are one of the five teams on his no-trade list

[Dick Allen]

45 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Huh?  Moncada's glove grades out exceptionally well.  Yoan is a wizard at 3B.  Moving him off 3B to put a lesser defender there and downgrading two defensive positions on a team that is poor defensively is.....quite a take.  

Yoan's contract is very bad.  He has no trade value.  He is, however, an exceptionally talented player that does a ton of things well that this team is very poor at.  He also has significant untapped potential.  Let's at least ride out 2023 with the new coaching staff and see what it does for Yoan.  I am expecting a very different player (and attitude). 

His contract is bad if 2022 is what he is. Hes one year removed from a 4 WAR season. I still think he can be that or even a lot better. There will be more accountability and perhaps he had a wake up call.

[spiderman]

What team(s) are in clear need of a closer? Are there teams that would take Hendricks even if his role is not necessarily as a closer? Probably a less likely scenario.

Given that the White Sox have holes at 2B, OF and probably SP, that is the most obvious positions of return - 1 or 2 players, but if there are concerns on the quality they would receive back, why not just take the best player available who can help the MLB team next year? Yes, that would require Hahn to make other moves if he takes back a SS or 3B, but why limit a return? 

Obviously it's disapointing that Hahn is publicly indicating that the payroll will not likely expand over last season and the only way to make improvements is really to move MLB talent to do so. Sort of seems like treading water in an off-season where the White Sox should be looking to add to the roster, not be bargain shopping or have to offset salary to acquire meaningful talent. It does make fans question how much this team wants to compete when they are doing it so restricted.

Anyways, if trading is going to be the path that Hahn is going down, why not focus on the best possible return vs. limiting yourself to specific positions of return?

 

 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

Dodgers are the most obvious. Maybe the Red Sox. Phillies, Angels, Dbacks or Rangers

[Dick Allen]

Just now, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

Dodgers are the most obvious. Maybe the Red Sox. Phillies, Angels, Dbacks or Rangers

The other issue is he has a 5 team no trade list. They usually get to update these lists yearly, I have no idea if that is the case here, but usually the teams are the ones most likely to trade for him. He doesn’t have to put the Pirates on the list. Guys with huge contracts don’t have to put the White Sox on their limited list because they aren’t trading for him anyway. There’s probably a good chance most of the teams we would think want him are on the list, and in reality he may have no problem going there, but they probably would have to do something for him to waive. 
 

just keep him and start acting like a team pursuing multiple championships.
 

[southsider2k5]

24 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

His contract is bad if 2022 is what he is. Hes one year removed from a 4 WAR season. I still think he can be that or even a lot better. There will be more accountability and perhaps he had a wake up call.

That's the thing about Yoan.  He's done it at the major league level.  Even his 2021 he was a 4 WAR/fWAR player.

[fathom]

Knowing Hendriks, he probably has highly conservative teams/cities on his list (and I respect him for this)

[chw42]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Knowing Hendriks, he probably has highly conservative teams/cities on his list (and I respect him for this)

It's teams that don't have Pride night, obviously. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Huh?  Moncada's glove grades out exceptionally well.  Yoan is a wizard at 3B.  Moving him off 3B to put a lesser defender there and downgrading two defensive positions on a team that is poor defensively is.....quite a take.  

Yoan's contract is very bad.  He has no trade value.  He is, however, an exceptionally talented player that does a ton of things well that this team is very poor at.  He also has significant untapped potential.  Let's at least ride out 2023 with the new coaching staff and see what it does for Yoan.  I am expecting a very different player (and attitude). 

His contract isn’t bad unless the 2022 version of Yoan is here to stay.  He just needs to be a 3 win player to more or less to break-even and that should be our minimum expectation.  I’ll keep saying it, but Grifol and this new staff will help him more than anyone.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

His contract isn’t bad unless the 2022 version of Yoan is here to stay.  He just needs to be a 3 win player to more or less to break-even and that should be our minimum expectation.  I’ll keep saying it, but Grifol and this new staff will help him more than anyone.

Yoan is pretty much the canary in the coal mine here.  Of all of the players we need recovery from, he is the one that may well show up as an indicator as to how good this managerial team is.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Yoan is pretty much the canary in the coal mine here.  Of all of the players we need recovery from, he is the one that may well show up as an indicator as to how good this managerial team is.

Exactly.

[Baron]

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

Knowing Hendriks, he probably has highly conservative teams/cities on his list (and I respect him for this)

Absolutely. The more I think about what he's done for the community and the club the more I dont want to trade him. f*** the money mismanagement by Rick Hahn. Start doing a better job of convincing Jerry to raise the budget or find someone else to trade. 

[fathom]

Just now, Baron said:

Absolutely. The more I think about what he's done for the community and the club the more I dont want to trade him. f*** the money mismanagement by Rick Hahn. Start doing a better job of convincing Jerry to raise the budget or find someone else to trade. 

Probably the most likable Sox player since Buehrle

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

His contract isn’t bad unless the 2022 version of Yoan is here to stay.  He just needs to be a 3 win player to more or less to break-even and that should be our minimum expectation.  I’ll keep saying it, but Grifol and this new staff will help him more than anyone.

Totally agree.  But 2/$46M guaranteed for Moncada is definitely a negative value asset at this point.  Is it possible he could rebound to a 3-4 WAR player and make it an acceptable last 2 years?  Yeah, its possible.  

[Bob Sacamano]

14 minutes ago, fathom said:

Probably the most likable Sox player since Buehrle

Thinking about it earlier, overall, there aren't many currently on the team.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

1 hour ago, AJ'S Cousin said:

I think if it nets us a Quality Right Fielder and 2nd Baseman i think it's worth it. I'd hate to see Hendriks go but he's slowed down just a bit. His fastball doesn't move like it used to. we all saw how far the ball goes when it gets hit because of no movement. Lopez and Crochet could possibly step in. Give me Reynolds or Conforto or Nimmo and sign Segura for 2nd base on a 2 year contract and I could live without Hendriks. His value is the Highest it's ev er going to be. 

You can’t really depend on Crochet for anything this year. He’s going to be busy getting himself right.

If you trade Liam, you better be ok with seeing more Kelly, Ruiz, Diekman, and Lambert in higher leverage roles. Because everyone is going to be bumped up. I don’t have faith that Graveman is going to be fine - he looked very human at times last year, and we have no idea if Lopez is even capable of being a 9th inning guy. Think of how well the Matt Thornton experience went when Jenks was finally cut.

Losing Hendriks, while possibly improving a different area of the team will make the bullpen a mess IMO. You’re essentially banking on the lineup being able to put up runs consistently to keep them out of tight games.

[he gone.]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Huh?  Moncada's glove grades out exceptionally well.  Yoan is a wizard at 3B.  Moving him off 3B to put a lesser defender there and downgrading two defensive positions on a team that is poor defensively is.....quite a take.  

Yoan's contract is very bad.  He has no trade value.  He is, however, an exceptionally talented player that does a ton of things well that this team is very poor at.  He also has significant untapped potential.  Let's at least ride out 2023 with the new coaching staff and see what it does for Yoan.  I am expecting a very different player (and attitude). 

Curious, what site/grade do you use? 2021 he had a good season. his 2022 had a UZR of 1.2. His dWAR graded out as 0.5. His outs above average rated at 4 which is 11th. Runs prevented was 11th His arm strength graded out as 16th (right below jake burger and ryan mcmahon and above devers)

Also, it's saying that we shouldn't make decisions based on Yoan. If we get a 3B as best return and that kid is known for his glove?, roll with it and shift him to 2b. if it's an OF, then roll with Yo Yo at 3B and go with our AAAA guys at 2b. I'm not guaranteeing yo yo a spot because he hasn't earned it. He's had his shot and now its time for him to move where best for the team. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by he gone.

[he gone.]

Also in 2021 he graded out at 1 run prevented and 2 OAA, again both middle of the pack. It's not a knock on the kid, but he's not exactly champan or kebryan hayes out there with the glove/arm. If his bat is working and hes taking pitches and has value there ... fine... but he hasn't consistently done that. I'm not outwardly looking to upgrade 3b, but if the opportunity presents itself then we need to consider it and be open to moving him around the diamond to make us a better team. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, spiderman said:

What team(s) are in clear need of a closer? Are there teams that would take Hendricks even if his role is not necessarily as a closer? Probably a less likely scenario.

Given that the White Sox have holes at 2B, OF and probably SP, that is the most obvious positions of return - 1 or 2 players, but if there are concerns on the quality they would receive back, why not just take the best player available who can help the MLB team next year? Yes, that would require Hahn to make other moves if he takes back a SS or 3B, but why limit a return? 

Obviously it's disapointing that Hahn is publicly indicating that the payroll will not likely expand over last season and the only way to make improvements is really to move MLB talent to do so. Sort of seems like treading water in an off-season where the White Sox should be looking to add to the roster, not be bargain shopping or have to offset salary to acquire meaningful talent. It does make fans question how much this team wants to compete when they are doing it so restricted.

Anyways, if trading is going to be the path that Hahn is going down, why not focus on the best possible return vs. limiting yourself to specific positions of return?

Because this (dumb) idea is not that trading Hendriks is a path to rebuilding, the idea is that it’s a path to helping compete in 2023. You fill a hole for 2023 and free up money that can be used to fill the other hole.

If their budget is fully tapped out already,  trading Hendriks for someone who doesn’t contribute this year leaves them with a weakened bullpen and the same holes in the OF and lineup. It’s an even worse setup than the already bad move of trying to fill an OF spot with a rookie from the Hendriks trade and having money for one more signing.

[Chisoxfn]

Honestly - I love Liam, but just like Gio and moving him if the package was right, I have zero problems with this deal. I go back to - we can all complain about JR and Hahn and all of those complaints are real.

But if they are working with 180M or 190 or whatever it is with the holes they have - they are going to have to get more creative because you can't just do RH speak and say well it is what it is so we are rolling the dice. If those are the paremeters you have been given, that is more than enough to win in this league and you got to go do it. No excuses.

I kind of go back to - if those are the orders, than you got to create flexibility so you can add the parts that aren't there and probably at certain points maybe package another contract with a marketable guy to create even more of it. For example - if you have a $180M payroll floor, I don't see how you can justify keeping Yoan around, even if it means selling "low" on him - you need the payroll flexibility. If you can package him with a Gio or Hendricks than you might have to assess it and deal with the reality of a slightly different return or different ways.  

You might need to do the same with a Joe Kelly, unless of course you like the value you have with him as a bounce back (which I can respect).  But if you need to - package Kelly with Giolito (especially if you are sending him to a bigger market club).  

[Harold's Leg Lift]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

The other issue is he has a 5 team no trade list. They usually get to update these lists yearly, I have no idea if that is the case here, but usually the teams are the ones most likely to trade for him. He doesn’t have to put the Pirates on the list. Guys with huge contracts don’t have to put the White Sox on their limited list because they aren’t trading for him anyway. There’s probably a good chance most of the teams we would think want him are on the list, and in reality he may have no problem going there, but they probably would have to do something for him to waive. 

The other issue is he has a tear in his UCL and missed time last season with a forearm strain..  Some teams are going to ding him for that while others may red flag him. 

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The other issue is he has a tear in his UCL and missed time last season with a forearm strain..  Some teams are going to ding him for that while others may red flag him. 

And he said it’s been torn for years, which means there is probably no way his contract is insured.