TA likes ominous tweet: The trade Anderson thread

[LittleHurtCG]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Literally anyone would have given us a better chance. 

Lmao. The players lost to Houston in 2021 not the manager. U could have put Connie Mack in that dugout and the Sox still would have gotten their behinds kicked by Houston. 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, LittleHurtCG said:

Lmao. The players lost to Houston in 2021 not the manager. U could have put Connie Mack in that dugout and the Sox still would have gotten their behinds kicked by Houston. 

Yet who was in charge when it all cratered?  Staning for TLR is a statement.

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, Quin said:

We all know you have it saved somewhere Balta. DO IT.

 

Look we all know how often Balta and I are on the same side, but today #TeamBalta.

[Quin]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Look we all know how often Balta and I are on the same side, but today #TeamBalta.

You two are basically France and England. 

[T R U]

7 minutes ago, bear_brian said:

Who the hell plays SS when Tim is gone? Romy Gonzalez? Leury?  I do not understand wanting to trade Tim. He is far from perfect, but he is definitely an above average shortstop. Montgomery may or may not be ready next year.

Very obviously Elvis Andrus

[4uckOffCommieScum]

9 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Baseball Trade Values has Busch, Outman and Pepiot almost identical in value to Anderson, FWIW. 

Man, get Correa and Swanson signed already, we need legit Sox moves

The baller move would be to sign Correa then make that Dodger trade. Too bad we have a cuckold front office

[LittleHurtCG]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yet who was in charge when it all cratered?  Staning for TLR is a statement.

You are now moving the goalposts. I agree that Tony likley cratered 2022. 

So please tell me what manager gets the Sox past Houston in 2021? 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Quin said:

You two are basically France and England. 

 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, LittleHurtCG said:

You are now moving the goalposts. I agree that Tony likley cratered 2022. 

So please tell me what manager gets the Sox past Houston in 2021? 

Literally any half decent manager improves this teams chances by a long shot.  Keeping TLR was tanking the season.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

2 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

You are now moving the goalposts. I agree that Tony likley cratered 2022. 

So please tell me what manager gets the Sox past Houston in 2021? 

They would have had home field advantage in that series and maybe not even have to face the Astros in that series at all if they had a good manager.

[T R U]

Just now, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

They would have had home field advantage in that series and maybe not even have to face the Astros in that series at all if they had a good manager.

I think people forget that Tony had the team literally take a knee to run out the clock on the season and that negative momentum was obvious

[southsider2k5]

Just now, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

They would have had home field advantage in that series and maybe not even have to face the Astros in that series at all if they had a good manager.

This is a good starting point.  It starts with not playing like the post season was a given for the majority of the season and not inviting teams to throw baseballs are your own players, along with all of his mistakes such as not knowing the rules of the game and completely ignoring his coaches.

[Balta1701]

22 minutes ago, Quin said:

We all know you have it saved somewhere Balta. DO IT.

 

I'm not finding the archived posts so here's what I can do from memory.

Game 1: Tony LaRussa never fought for home field advantage. Lance Lynn was put on the mound in game 1, coming off an injury. Lance Lynn had an ERA of >5 while pitching at Minute Maid Park, including being beaten there in 2021. However they wanted to do this, they needed to not have Lynn pitching at Minute Maid, it was a clear issue. They should have absolutely tried harder for home field advantage, and barring that, Lynn should have pitched game 3.

Game 1: Lance Lynn's gameplan was terrible. Lynn threw 6 offspeed pitches out of 70 pitches that game. The Astros were well coached and were prepared for his gameplan, which was not different from any of the other games he pitched during the year. This was a clear flaw. Feel free to hang this on the pitching coach too. 

Game 2: If you go to the game 2 game thread, I say in there "The bullpen is fully rested. You cannot allow Lucas to have the lead and then lose this game without bringing in the bullpen." Lucas had the lead and LaRussa left him in to lose it once several runners got on.

Game 2: The White Sox's defensive positioning was utterly awful. Bummer in particular was victimized by this in game 2. I believe it cost Giolito on the tie/goahead run also. The difference between the Astros and White Sox during these games was staggering, every ground ball had a player just barely get to it for the Astros and just barely miss it for the White Sox. 

Game 2: Garret Crochet pitched in back to back games 3 times all year. He never once pitched in a back to back situation without giving up a run. LaRussa used him in a blowout in game 1 for reasons no one understands. He then brought Crochet into the 5th inning of game 2, on back to back days, with runners on base, in what I believe was a tie game. Bummer did not pitch game 1 and was available. Crochet, just as he did the few times he was used that way during the year, was scored on. That was the winning run.

Game 2: LaRussa pinch hit Cesar Hernandez for reasons. Because of this move, Leury Garcia moved to RF. Leury Garcia had a key error on a ball off of Kimbrel that game, leading to the floodgates opening.

Game 4: Rodon was left in too long. He should not have been left in to face Correa in the key at bat where they took the lead. Once a runner got to 3rd, he was unwilling to use his slider because he didn't know if Grandal could block it (Correa himself said that if Rodon threw the slider he was toast). Rodon threw him either 3-4 straight fastballs and Correa knocked in the goahead runs on one of those. His fastball velocity was several mph slower than earlier in that same game, but somehow the manager missed this.

Game 4: Michael Kopech never once during the 2021 season threw 40+ pitches and then came back out to pitch 2 days later. Michael Kopech threw nearly 50 pitches in game 3. Tony LaRussa himself said Kopech was unavailable for game 4. Kopech was the first person out of the pen once Rodon gave up the hit to Correa, and no one ever asked LaRussa about the contradiction. He actually got out of that inning, and then LaRussa left him in for the next inning where he proceeded to be hit around, breaking the game open.

Game 4: Lance Lynn was available on normal rest for the spot where Kopech was sent out, including for the second inning. He never pitched that game. 

There were more, but those are the ones burned into my memory. Every one of those games goes a different way with a competent manager, they may not win but LaRussa set them up horribly over and over and over. I honestly don't know which of these had the biggest impact on the series. Dusty Baker gave the White Sox game 3 with a ludicrous pinch hitting decision that was still the worst managerial move of that series. #s 2 through whatever were all LaRussa though. 

[TheFutureIsNear]

1 hour ago, Pal said:

TA going is real. Not saying its pending or anything, but it's a 100% a possibility. He's worn out his welcome. 

How has he worn out his welcome? Maybe it’s because I’m an out of town fan and I miss out on stuff, but I really don’t understand the dislike for TA. Are people really on their high horses pretending to care about what he does in his personal life? Is there something else I’m missing? 
There’s like 6 pages of people crying about the idea of trading a soon to be 34 year old closer (Hendriks), but the idea of trading out 29 year old all-star shortstop gets everyone on board? Someone explain please 

[joejoesox]

I'd be curious to see a poll of Soxtalk members who prefer keeping Giolito, TA, Hendriks and adding marginal at best players 

vs

Trade these guys who still have some value (Even Giolito has some value imo) to retool their awful minor league system (Sox aren't competing in 2023) and these trade chips are GONE or lose massive value after this year

I don't wanna make the poll, someone else do it ?

[bmags]

so wild to me how many actual important sports/celebs read the reply guys. 

I suppose if people were talking about me I might as well.

Anyhoo.

I don't want to trade anderson, but i'm not against it.

At this point any variable removed that the front office is claiming was the problem is helpful to point back to when the team inevitably sucks.

But, it's not like there are no examples of the trading star and still riding fine recently. Andres Gimenez and Francisco lindor for one, though not...in year 1. But all were happy.

You may say "but cleveland can scout" and I'd like to point you back to the paragraph 2 above. 

[LittleHurtCG]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Literally any half decent manager improves this teams chances by a long shot.  Keeping TLR was tanking the season.

Again, I'm specifically asking about the 2021 Playoff series against Houston. So if the Sox had Ned Yost as their manager for that series against Houston then the Sox would have won? 

[Quin]

1 minute ago, joejoesox said:

I'd be curious to see a poll of Soxtalk members who prefer keeping Giolito, TA, Hendriks and adding marginal at best players 

vs

Trade these guys who still have some value (Even Giolito has some value imo) to retool their awful minor league system (Sox aren't competing in 2023) and these trade chips are GONE or lose massive value after this year

I don't wanna make the poll, someone else do it ?

I mean at that point you do just trade Cease because you can get an absolutely stupid offer.

[35thstreetswarm]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I'm not finding the archived posts so here's what I can do from memory.

Game 1: Tony LaRussa never fought for home field advantage. Lance Lynn was put on the mound in game 1, coming off an injury. Lance Lynn had an ERA of >5 while pitching at Minute Maid Park, including being beaten there in 2021. However they wanted to do this, they needed to not have Lynn pitching at Minute Maid, it was a clear issue. They should have absolutely tried harder for home field advantage, and barring that, Lynn should have pitched game 3.

Game 1: Lance Lynn's gameplan was terrible. Lynn threw 6 offspeed pitches out of 70 pitches that game. The Astros were well coached and were prepared for his gameplan, which was not different from any of the other games he pitched during the year. This was a clear flaw.

Game 2: If you go to the game 2 game thread, I say in there "The bullpen is fully rested. You cannot allow Lucas to have the lead and then lose this game without bringing in the bullpen." Lucas had the lead and LaRussa left him in to lose it once several runners got on.

Game 2: The White Sox's defensive positioning was utterly awful. Bummer in particular was victimized by this in game 2. I believe it cost Giolito on the tie/goahead run also. The difference between the Astros and White Sox during these games was staggering, every ground ball had a player just barely get to it for the Astros and just barely miss it for the White Sox. 

Game 2: Garret Crochet pitched in back to back games 3 times all year. He never once pitched in a back to back situation without giving up a run. LaRussa used him in a blowout in game 1 for reasons no one understands. He then brought Crochet into the 5th inning of game 2, on back to back days, with runners on base, in what I believe was a tie game. Bummer did not pitch game 1 and was available. Crochet, just as he did the few times he was used that way during the year, was scored on. That was the winning run.

Game 2: LaRussa pinch hit Cesar Hernandez for reasons. Because of this move, Leury Garcia moved to RF. Leury Garcia had a key error on a ball off of Kimbrel that game, leading to the floodgates opening.

Game 4: Rodon was left in too long. He should not have been left in to face Correa in the key at bat where they took the lead. Once a runner got to 3rd, he was unwilling to use his slider because he didn't know if Grandal could block it (Correa himself said that if Rodon threw the slider he was toast). Rodon threw him either 3-4 straight fastballs and Correa knocked in the goahead runs on one of those. His fastball velocity was several mph slower than earlier in that same game, but somehow the manager missed this.

Game 4: Michael Kopech never once during the 2021 season threw 40+ pitches and then came back out to pitch 2 days later. Michael Kopech threw nearly 50 pitches in game 3. Tony LaRussa himself said Kopech was unavailable for game 4. Kopech was the first person out of the pen once Rodon gave up the hit to Correa, and no one ever asked LaRussa about the contradiction. He actually got out of that inning, and then LaRussa left him in for the next inning where he proceeded to be hit around, breaking the game open.

There were more, but those are the ones burned into my memory. Every one of those games goes a different way with a competent manager, they may not win but LaRussa set them up horribly over and over and over. I honestly don't know which of these had the biggest impact on the series. Dusty Baker gave the White Sox game 3 with a ludicrous pinch hitting decision that was still the worst managerial move of that series. #s 2 through whatever were all LaRussa though. 

Yep.  I was at game 2.  That was the one I'll go to my grave believing we'd have won without TLR's horrendous decisionmaking.

[wegner]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is a good starting point.  It starts with not playing like the post season was a given for the majority of the season and not inviting teams to throw baseballs are your own players, along with all of his mistakes such as not knowing the rules of the game and completely ignoring his coaches.

It truly is amazing how much LaRussa screwed up this team and even more mind boggling that some people were still defending him well past the point that it was obvious that it was a huge mistake to have brought him in.

[bmags]

the main point I'd make is in 2021 for some reason the white sox acted oblivious to the likelihood of how their pitchers barely pitched the year before, including two TJS recoverers and just rode them until they broke.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Again, I'm specifically asking about the 2021 Playoff series against Houston. So if the Sox had Ned Yost as their manager for that series against Houston then the Sox would have won? 

It is a move of the goalposts there to limit this to just the playoffs, but I am not shocked by that.  There are a ton of good bits above about Tony's stupidity in that series.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Quin said:

I mean at that point you do just trade Cease because you can get an absolutely stupid offer.

Dylan Cease is worth more than what Chris Sale was when we traded him because of where free agency is now.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Yep.  I was at game 2.  That was the one I'll go to my grave believing we'd have won without TLR's horrendous decisionmaking.

So many of those are "on paper you can't do this." Why did Cesar pinch hit in game 2? No one has a clue. Why did they use Crochet back to back, when that never once led to a clean inning during the year, in a tight game with runners on? Augh, you can't do that! Tony LaRussa himself said Kopech couldn't go in game 4. Why didn't the manager listen to Tony LaRussa? 

[joejoesox]

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

I mean at that point you do just trade Cease because you can get an absolutely stupid offer.

Absolutely, I'm down for blowing it up, how many others feel the same though

guessing maybe 10% of us