TA likes ominous tweet: The trade Anderson thread

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Highland said:

I don't think trading Tim Anderson alone will get you what you want. He would have to be part of a bigger deal which I don't think the Sox are going to do. It's obvious that the team needs at least one corner outfielder, and that hasn't happened yet. Regardless, I'm not anticipating much at this point. So far, this off season has been a joke. 

I mean, realistically, if you're trading TA you may as well trade everyone of value controlled 2 years or less, because we aren't winning anything in 2023 with Elvis Andrus or Romy Gonzalez or Leury Garcia manning SS along with gaping holes in LF, RF and 2B. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by ChiSox59

[Big Hurtin]

19 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Did you steal this from Reddit...or did you post this on reddit? ?

Wasn't me

[NCsoxfan]

34 minutes ago, Highland said:

I don't think trading Tim Anderson alone will get you what you want. He would have to be part of a bigger deal which I don't think the Sox are going to do. It's obvious that the team needs at least one corner outfielder, and that hasn't happened yet. Regardless, I'm not anticipating much at this point. So far, this off season has been a joke. 

So who does Tim Anderson get you? In theory if the Sox were trading Anderson to a team that had the Sox farm system who would they receive in return?

[Highland]

1 hour ago, NCsoxfan said:

So who does Tim Anderson get you? In theory if the Sox were trading Anderson to a team that had the Sox farm system who would they receive in return?

What the Sox should do is keep Anderson, hopefully he can get his act together, and in return, the Sox would get a hell of a shortstop.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

Well, he’s vastly superior with the glove, while they’d be settling for below average defense from TA. Unless they think they can fix his ambivalence towards fundamentals

While Swanson had the 2 best years of his career defensively in 21 and 22 , Tim is not and has never been a below average defender. He may not be the best fundamentally but his range has always made him a plus defender.

You can see it quite clearly on his fangraphs page all the way to the right in the dashboard stats where it has offensive and defensive ratings and then total fWar.

[Balta1701]

16 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

While Swanson had the 2 best years of his career defensively in 21 and 22 , Tim is not and has never been a below average defender. He may not be the best fundamentally but his range has always made him a plus defender.

You can see it quite clearly on his fangraphs page all the way to the right in the dashboard stats where it has offensive and defensive ratings and then total fWar.

That "Defensive rating" column though includes the positional adjustment value for playing SS. Tim had a negative UZR last year and if I limit to guys who played 500+ innings at SS he was 29th out of 35. He was also negative on OAA and DRS last year, so all 3 defensive metrics say "This guy was below average for a shortstop". 

If you want to say it this way, he was a "well below average shortstop but an average player because shortstop is such an important defensive position". 

[kitekrazy]

Most people rarely thoroughly read something and they put like. 

[SoxAce]

Love TA but it would be nice to actually have a great defensive SS who is solid enough with the bat. Much more valuable than a guy with a great bat, but s%*# D (in my opinion). 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

That "Defensive rating" column though includes the positional adjustment value for playing SS. Tim had a negative UZR last year and if I limit to guys who played 500+ innings at SS he was 29th out of 35. He was also negative on OAA and DRS last year, so all 3 defensive metrics say "This guy was below average for a shortstop". 

If you want to say it this way, he was a "well below average shortstop but an average player because shortstop is such an important defensive position". 

Last year was not one of tim's best defensively but he also didnt play that many games. ANd his ratings were pretty close to the same as swanson except the last 2 years.

[kitekrazy]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

While Swanson had the 2 best years of his career defensively in 21 and 22 , Tim is not and has never been a below average defender. He may not be the best fundamentally but his range has always made him a plus defender.

You can see it quite clearly on his fangraphs page all the way to the right in the dashboard stats where it has offensive and defensive ratings and then total fWar.

See you are not getting it.  TA is the new whipping boy.  Maybe the fan base is exhausted doing this with Moncada.

These are the same people who in the same breath say TA will bring a haul. 

[hi8is]

Gonna be another snooze fest of an off-season. Yay.

[reiks12]

who in their right mind would want to sign a contract with the white sox? a franchise whose goal is to f*** players in incredibly team friendly deals and refuse to improve the team? Not to mention the terrible coaching/player development, and one of the worst training staffs in the league.

Unless you are a journeyman or old veteran, who in their right mind would sign here?

[hi8is]

44 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

who in their right mind would sign here?

Freddy Mercury… perhaps?

[Sarava]

15 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

I mean, realistically, if you're trading TA you may as well trade everyone of value controlled 2 years or less, because we aren't winning anything in 2023 with Elvis Andrus or Romy Gonzalez or Leury Garcia manning SS along with gaping holes in LF, RF and 2B. 

You might be right. You probably are. But what would the return be for Hendriks and TA to the Dodgers? Is Gavin Lux and a couple of nice prospects out of reach? I'm not sure on that, and that's why I'm asking.

Because if you can throw Lux at 2B...re-sign Andrus, and let him and Sosa battle it out for shortstop (I'll secretly be hoping Sosa kills it and takes the job).. The loss of TA and Hendrik's salary's hopefully would spur our budget minded owner to spending on someone like Michael Conforto in the outfield. I know that's a lot of if's, but I think there's a very real chance of being a better team than last year. Maybe even the best team we've seen during these 'rebuild' years.

I am a fan of TA. He's the one current guy I own a jersey of. But like Soxace, I think it's counter-productive to leave him at SS with all errors he commits. Those errors have cost the Sox a lot of games and that should be stabilized.

[poppysox]

14 hours ago, Highland said:

What the Sox should do is keep Anderson, hopefully he can get his act together, and in return, the Sox would get a hell of a shortstop.

Agreed!  Also, concentrate on strengthening the real problems that are RF and 2nd while trusting the new manager and staff to have a pulse.

[Dick Allen]

The Sox aren’t going to bag the 2023 season. The play is to keep TA, hope he has a healthy and side piece less season, Hope Montgomery continues to develop to the point TA is expendable next year. They may talk about it, but IMO, there is no way they trade TA unless they have a capable replacement. 

[bmags]

7 hours ago, reiks12 said:

who in their right mind would want to sign a contract with the white sox? a franchise whose goal is to f*** players in incredibly team friendly deals and refuse to improve the team? Not to mention the terrible coaching/player development, and one of the worst training staffs in the league.

Unless you are a journeyman or old veteran, who in their right mind would sign here?

Was yoan moncada or Eloy Jimenez f***ed in incredibly team friendly deals? Hard to even say Robert was.

[Bad Hombre]

8 hours ago, reiks12 said:

who in their right mind would want to sign a contract with the white sox? a franchise whose goal is to f*** players in incredibly team friendly deals and refuse to improve the team?

If anything, those deals are player friendly. They all got their bag and regressed ever since. 

[Sarava]

8 hours ago, reiks12 said:

who in their right mind would want to sign a contract with the white sox? a franchise whose goal is to f*** players in incredibly team friendly deals and refuse to improve the team? Not to mention the terrible coaching/player development, and one of the worst training staffs in the league.

Unless you are a journeyman or old veteran, who in their right mind would sign here?

This is a weird take, given that these 'team friendly' deals have had a pretty big slant towards the players lately.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Sarava

[ChiSox59]

2 hours ago, Sarava said:

You might be right. You probably are. But what would the return be for Hendriks and TA to the Dodgers? Is Gavin Lux and a couple of nice prospects out of reach? I'm not sure on that, and that's why I'm asking.

Because if you can throw Lux at 2B...re-sign Andrus, and let him and Sosa battle it out for shortstop (I'll secretly be hoping Sosa kills it and takes the job).. The loss of TA and Hendrik's salary's hopefully would spur our budget minded owner to spending on someone like Michael Conforto in the outfield. I know that's a lot of if's, but I think there's a very real chance of being a better team than last year. Maybe even the best team we've seen during these 'rebuild' years.

I am a fan of TA. He's the one current guy I own a jersey of. But like Soxace, I think it's counter-productive to leave him at SS with all errors he commits. Those errors have cost the Sox a lot of games and that should be stabilized.

Several packages have been thrown around in this thread. LAD have like 7 top 100 prospects and a few more just outside that are MLB ready. They definitely have the bullets. I think the general consensus here is that LAD needs Lux even with TA around. They’re pretty thin atm.

[Timmy U]

My issue with a Dodgers trade is their farm is a bit overrated cuz LA.  Not unlike Cleveland and the Cubs, they have amazing depth, but I question impact. Miller, Pepiot, and Stone all have serious reliever risk.  Vargas and Busch are both 1b types, and I do not believe in Pages.  Outman seems like a second piece to me and his strikeout rate is terrifying.  There is upside, but he could go full Christian Pache on you.  Sox would not benefit from his plus defense in center because Robert ain't moving. Ultimately, if you trade TA to the Dodgers, I think you're getting more volume of potential 2 WAR guys than future stars.  Sox probably know Miller well considering he's local and how close they are to the Louisville program. If they like him, I guess he'd be the centerpiece.

[bmags]

11 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

My issue with a Dodgers trade is their farm is a bit overrated cuz LA.  Not unlike Cleveland and the Cubs, they have amazing depth, but I question impact. Miller, Pepiot, and Stone all have serious reliever risk.  Vargas and Busch are both 1b types, and I do not believe in Pages.  Outman seems like a second piece to me and his strikeout rate is terrifying.  There is upside, but he could go full Christian Pache on you.  Sox would not benefit from his plus defense in center because Robert ain't moving. Ultimately, if you trade TA to the Dodgers, I think you're getting more volume of potential 2 WAR guys than future stars.  Sox probably know Miller well considering he's local and how close they are to the Louisville program. If they like him, I guess he'd be the centerpiece.

Christian pache outcomes, but not Christian pache prices helps that.

[GradMc]

On 12/8/2022 at 12:06 PM, chw42 said:

I guess we're gonna have to get used to Elvis Andrus at SS next year won't we? 

Now TA and Pito will come back here and kick our asses...

[GREEDY]

On 12/9/2022 at 7:45 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

ANd his ratings were pretty close to the same as swanson except the last 2 years.

In 2022 most metrics have Swanson as the best SS on the planet.  

And Tim as one of the worst amongst SS with over 300 PA.

They had similar defensive seasons in '18 and '19.  I think almost everyone involved in baseball who does big time research like you understands they are not "pretty close" in defensive ability.  

 

----------

Side note:  This is the time of the offseason where you could theoretically trade veterans for inexpensive pre-arb players (to fill needs) and then magically sign a veteran replacement (that your trade partner was just oddly not interested in signing). 

So I think you get lots of Sox internet willing to hypothetically trade guys that have positive value.  It isn't a knock on Liam, Tim or even Lucas and their value in general.  It is fantasy baseball strategy at best and really requires a specific unique situation and trade partner for it to ever even remotely work. This disease will go away once all of the free agents find homes and then almost no one here will advocate dealing TA. 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

26 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

In 2022 most metrics have Swanson as the best SS on the planet.  

And Tim as one of the worst amongst SS with over 300 PA.

They had similar defensive seasons in '18 and '19.  I think almost everyone involved in baseball who does big time research like you understands they are not "pretty close" in defensive ability.  

 

----------

Side note:  This is the time of the offseason where you could theoretically trade veterans for inexpensive pre-arb players (to fill needs) and then magically sign a veteran replacement (that your trade partner was just oddly not interested in signing). 

So I think you get lots of Sox internet willing to hypothetically trade guys that have positive value.  It isn't a knock on Liam, Tim or even Lucas and their value in general.  It is fantasy baseball strategy at best and really requires a specific unique situation and trade partner for it to ever even remotely work. This disease will go away once all of the free agents find homes and then almost no one here will advocate dealing TA. 

 

What you quoted from me , you aren't disputing. I already said Swason was great defensively the last 2 years and TA had just about his worst defensive year.