TA likes ominous tweet: The trade Anderson thread

[bmags]

I do think hahn would point to like...the yankees last year where they shed urshela and sanchez for kiner-falefa as like a "rearrange what wasn't working" thing.

But uh...those players are all bad and the yankees basically made playoffs behind a 5 in 100 years offensive performance.

[TheFutureIsNear]

6 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

I'd be curious to see a poll of Soxtalk members who prefer keeping Giolito, TA, Hendriks and adding marginal at best players 

vs

Trade these guys who still have some value (Even Giolito has some value imo) to retool their awful minor league system (Sox aren't competing in 2023) and these trade chips are GONE or lose massive value after this year

I don't wanna make the poll, someone else do it ?

Letting Hahn spearhead a 2nd rebuild would be insanity and shouldn’t be a remote possibility. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

Absolutely, I'm down for blowing it up, how many others feel the same though

guessing maybe 10% of us

If we are going to act like the Pittsburgh Pirates in free agency, the window is already closed.  Might as well blow it up then.

[ChiSox59]

25 minutes ago, bear_brian said:

Who the hell plays SS when Tim is gone? Romy Gonzalez? Leury?  I do not understand wanting to trade Tim. He is far from perfect, but he is definitely an above average shortstop. Montgomery may or may not be ready next year.

Montgomery isn’t even close to ready. He’s mid 2024 at best. You’d have to sign Elvis or some other stop gap, unless of course you received an mlb ready SS back in the deal. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by ChiSox59

[35thstreetswarm]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So many of those are "on paper you can't do this." Why did Cesar pinch hit in game 2? No one has a clue. Why did they use Crochet back to back, when that never once led to a clean inning during the year, in a tight game with runners on? Augh, you can't do that! Tony LaRussa himself said Kopech couldn't go in game 4. Why didn't the manager listen to Tony LaRussa? 

I was screaming from the stands when they brought Crochet in.  The then-nervous Astros fans around me appreciated the advance heads up that they were about to blow a tight game open and seize control of the series, though.

[he gone.]

1 hour ago, JoeCredeYes said:

Tim "liked" that Tweet that says he'll be in another uniform one day. 

Because he will. 

Just randomly quoted this one, not singling you out. 

I am in shock of the disbelief of this board. This year was the last year of going all in. The winter meetings happened and they most certainly did not go all in. The only other option is trading. Anderson has 2 years left and is one of the few positions where we actually have a feasible backup in Montgomery. Now do I think it'd be premature to trade him this offseason when you do not know for certain that Montgomery will continue his upward projection? Yes. But at the same time Xander going to SD did increase the pressure on winning teams to add a meaningful SS. If his value is enough right now you consider. In all probability he's on this team in 2023 and next offseason is trade when the FA SS market is thin. The Sox are not going to give their first long and $100mm+, $200mm+ contract out to Anderson when they have Montgomery lined up. Y'all are high if you think he's coming back in any way after his contract expires. 

Also shocked on how many people turned on TA for his off the field stuff. Grow up. He needs to grow up too. But give me 20 minutes in your internet history and to go through your phone and half y'all would be in trouble w your wives. You're not a better human ... so quit acting like it. If you had millions and opportunities thrown at you there's a very big chance that you'd make mistakes too. 

[hi8is]

If they think Montgomery will be ready for the start of next year AND the SS market this off-season can create an overpay… I’m fine with it.

[joejoesox]

I didn't realize Cease turns 27 this year

Could get a haul for him now. He turns 29 in his final ARB year (2025), oof. 

#blowitup

[GreenSox]

14 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

Trade these guys who still have some value (Even Giolito has some value imo) to retool their awful minor league system (Sox aren't competing in 2023) and these trade chips are GONE or lose massive value after this year

I don't wanna make the poll, someone else do it ?

If you want to retool the minor league system, those trades are generally best done in July.  Anderson's value should be higher with improved play, Giolito's value should be higher with a better season and the value of pitchers, esp. on short term deals, is higher in July.
One caveat, however, that this is one lazy front office that has frequently napped during July.  And even for the rebuild, they took only the sales of Sale, Eaton and Quintana seriously; the rest were lazy moves or giveaways for Rule 5 eligible players.  

[Greek-konerko]

5 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

I was screaming from the stands when they brought Crochet in.  The then-nervous Astros fans around me appreciated the advance heads up that they were about to blow a tight game open and seize control of the series, though.

Αlways listen to greeks,always,say bye bye now to timmy his days are numbered as sox player

[LittleHurtCG]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I'm not finding the archived posts so here's what I can do from memory.

Game 1: Tony LaRussa never fought for home field advantage. Lance Lynn was put on the mound in game 1, coming off an injury. Lance Lynn had an ERA of >5 while pitching at Minute Maid Park, including being beaten there in 2021. However they wanted to do this, they needed to not have Lynn pitching at Minute Maid, it was a clear issue. They should have absolutely tried harder for home field advantage, and barring that, Lynn should have pitched game 3.

Game 1: Lance Lynn's gameplan was terrible. Lynn threw 6 offspeed pitches out of 70 pitches that game. The Astros were well coached and were prepared for his gameplan, which was not different from any of the other games he pitched during the year. This was a clear flaw. Feel free to hang this on the pitching coach too. 

Game 2: If you go to the game 2 game thread, I say in there "The bullpen is fully rested. You cannot allow Lucas to have the lead and then lose this game without bringing in the bullpen." Lucas had the lead and LaRussa left him in to lose it once several runners got on.

Game 2: The White Sox's defensive positioning was utterly awful. Bummer in particular was victimized by this in game 2. I believe it cost Giolito on the tie/goahead run also. The difference between the Astros and White Sox during these games was staggering, every ground ball had a player just barely get to it for the Astros and just barely miss it for the White Sox. 

Game 2: Garret Crochet pitched in back to back games 3 times all year. He never once pitched in a back to back situation without giving up a run. LaRussa used him in a blowout in game 1 for reasons no one understands. He then brought Crochet into the 5th inning of game 2, on back to back days, with runners on base, in what I believe was a tie game. Bummer did not pitch game 1 and was available. Crochet, just as he did the few times he was used that way during the year, was scored on. That was the winning run.

Game 2: LaRussa pinch hit Cesar Hernandez for reasons. Because of this move, Leury Garcia moved to RF. Leury Garcia had a key error on a ball off of Kimbrel that game, leading to the floodgates opening.

Game 4: Rodon was left in too long. He should not have been left in to face Correa in the key at bat where they took the lead. Once a runner got to 3rd, he was unwilling to use his slider because he didn't know if Grandal could block it (Correa himself said that if Rodon threw the slider he was toast). Rodon threw him either 3-4 straight fastballs and Correa knocked in the goahead runs on one of those. His fastball velocity was several mph slower than earlier in that same game, but somehow the manager missed this.

Game 4: Michael Kopech never once during the 2021 season threw 40+ pitches and then came back out to pitch 2 days later. Michael Kopech threw nearly 50 pitches in game 3. Tony LaRussa himself said Kopech was unavailable for game 4. Kopech was the first person out of the pen once Rodon gave up the hit to Correa, and no one ever asked LaRussa about the contradiction. He actually got out of that inning, and then LaRussa left him in for the next inning where he proceeded to be hit around, breaking the game open.

Game 4: Lance Lynn was available on normal rest for the spot where Kopech was sent out, including for the second inning. He never pitched that game. 

There were more, but those are the ones burned into my memory. Every one of those games goes a different way with a competent manager, they may not win but LaRussa set them up horribly over and over and over. I honestly don't know which of these had the biggest impact on the series. Dusty Baker gave the White Sox game 3 with a ludicrous pinch hitting decision that was still the worst managerial move of that series. #s 2 through whatever were all LaRussa though. 

That is a lot of words to basically say that the players didn't do their jobs well and execute. 

Houston averaged 7.75 runs per game in that series. The Sox team era was 7.94 for the series. 

Outside of game the game 3 explosion the offense averaged 2 runs a game. 

Starting Lynn in game one was curious, but who are you starting in his place? 

[Greek-konerko]

Always 

[fathom]

Been saying he might be gone for a while. Rumors are it’s way more than just the baby mama stuff.  I hope he stays, but the timing of his “like” is odd.

[LittleHurtCG]

11 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Letting Hahn spearhead a 2nd rebuild would be insanity and shouldn’t be a remote possibility. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you. I got some Blockbuster video stores and FTX tokens to sell to anyone who thinks another rebuild with Hahn and JR as owner is a good idea. 

No more tanking! It doesn't work for organizations like the White Sox! 

[2Deep]

This TA thread seems to be much to do about nothing.

This is what this organization has done to us.  We jump at everything!

[fathom]

Btw, can’t believe how many people want the Dodgers potential 4A prospects for Timmy and Hendriks.  Some of these proposals are gross.

[Vote4Pedro]

Just now, fathom said:

Been saying he might be gone for a while. Rumors are it’s way more than just the baby mama stuff.  I hope he stays, but the timing of his “like” is odd.

Another reason for the Sox not to have a SoxFest knowing they would be shopping a fan favorite 

[T R U]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Btw, can’t believe how many people want the Dodgers potential 4A prospects for Timmy and Hendriks.  Some of these proposals are gross.

I know, I don't want to trade them for a handful of 25 year olds

[2Deep]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Btw, can’t believe how many people want the Dodgers potential 4A prospects for Timmy and Hendriks.  Some of these proposals are gross.

Thank you! 100%

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

That is a lot of words to basically say that the players didn't do their jobs well and execute. 

Houston averaged 7.75 runs per game in that series. The Sox team era was 7.94 for the series. 

Outside of game the game 3 explosion the offense averaged 2 runs a game. 

Starting Lynn in game one was curious, but who are you starting in his place? 

If they didn't have home field advantage, I would have done Giolito and then Cease in games 1-2. Then again, I was also saying that they needed to prioritize the 2 seed all the way back in August for that reason. 

Players didn't do their jobs when they were put in impossible situations. In 2021, Garrett Crochet's ERA on 0 days rest was 9.82. If he's asked to pitch on 0 days rest and his ERA in that situation is 9.82, is it his fault he gave up a run?  

[fathom]

I get the same sense the Sox view Timmy as a distraction, same way they did with Sale.

[joejoesox]

3 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Thank you. I got some Blockbuster video stores and FTX tokens to sell to anyone who thinks another rebuild with Hahn and JR as owner is a good idea. 

No more tanking! It doesn't work for organizations like the White Sox! 

They can literally just ask for top prospects. It's player development where their issues stem IMHO, still doesn't make you wrong but top prospects are much easier to develop

[Tnetennba]

Houston was clearly the better team in October 2021, but that series was one of the worst strategically managed series I can remember.  TLR put the Sox at a tactical disadvantage nearly every game he "managed" his entire second tenure, let alone that series.  

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

48 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Baseball Trade Values has Busch, Outman and Pepiot almost identical in value to Anderson, FWIW. 

Man, get Correa and Swanson signed already, we need legit Sox moves

make them add Rushing haha

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

8 minutes ago, fathom said:

Btw, can’t believe how many people want the Dodgers potential 4A prospects for Timmy and Hendriks.  Some of these proposals are gross.

Some people for some reason think Hendriks is a salary dump (dumb)..