Merkin: Colas figures to be Sox 2023 RF

[ChiSox59]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

My opinion is the Sox have a 10% chance of being a playoff team in a weak division if a lot of things fall the right way which is mostly incumbent on about 11 guys being better or some combination of those players being much better.

I think we are actually in the same place . Sox are going to mostly stand pat. I think amything they do will likely result in failure. Your plan my plan, doesn't matter. The Sox cant help but be medicore.

It's sickening watching Hahn constantly picking guys that flop and spending the money poorly and I'm really sorry if I dont think Gallo or Conforto or Frazier or Pillar are any better than what Hahn has already attempted. AT least with  young players with control I can adjust my expectations from instant success with short term pieces did have continually failed to they just need a little more time.

We keep getting set up by the FO that this time their latest fix will work if only the guys we put our faith in finally all have one good year at the same time under our amazing new manager. I just don't see much difference between their plan and yours.

10%?!?! lol, oh my.  Just stopped reading there.  

[EloyJenkins]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

10%?!?! lol, oh my.  Just stopped reading there.  

yeah this is ridiculous. the twins have gotten much worse so far this offseason and the Indians still have flaws. the TLR affect alone should lead to 5-7 more wins for the Sox

[ChiSox59]

8 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

yeah this is ridiculous. the twins have gotten much worse so far this offseason and the Indians still have flaws. the TLR affect alone should lead to 5-7 more wins for the Sox

Yeah, I think the Sox are probably somewhere between a 84-88 win team as is.  That will require some normalization on injuries and performance on key players, but yah.  I certainly would like to see them make the team better, tho.   

[Tnetennba]

Guardians could be a flash in the pan for all we know.  Twins aren't better, nor are KC or Detroit.  Giving the Sox a 10% chance in a 2 team race is just negativity for the sake of it.

[4uckOffCommieScum]

With Pena, the Astros knew they were getting good glove defense at SS, whether he hit or not. 

[GREEDY]

9 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Guardians could be a flash in the pan for all we know.  Twins aren't better, nor are KC or Detroit.  Giving the Sox a 10% chance in a 2 team race is just negativity for the sake of it.

The same 2 team race that a 3rd team ran away with last year?

Sports bettors and/or books really like the Sox, around 33% implied odds from a month old article quoting odds that I couldn't confirm.  Didn't see any posted when I quickly checked right now.  But even if that is still accurate, I'm not sure that someone putting it at 10% qualifies as absurd or negativity just for the sake of it.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

16 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yawn. You take this stuff way too seriously.  I have no "charge" against you.  Your Outman bit just became a meme you wouldn't stop posting about 15x a day.  Talk about being stuck on something.  I've even outwardly stated that Outman would be a solid supplementary piece in a trade with LAD.   Just move on from it dude.   

 

See this where I have issues with you. My conversation to you today has been civil. But you tell me Yawn and hyperbole me with 15X a day . Excuse me if if expect people to discuss differences without slighting the other person's posting style . Lots of people here know what I mean, @Balta1701  @caulfield12 just to name a couple of guys who are very civil but unique individuals .

To me it's a way of bullying .Maybe you think it's no big deal and I take it too seriously but its the main reason people think a place like twitter is a cesspool filled with keyboard warriors .I'd rather not be subjected to that kind of behavior on Soxtalk.

Most of our readers in the offseason aren't here every day and I have many conversations with good people here . If I posted very little about Outman and others  it doesn't get seen and I wouldn't have people telling me Outman might be a good idea as a secondary piece in a trade or just as an interesting find. @bmags liked Outman,  @Y2Jimmy0liked Stone Garret and thought the Sox should inquire about him too.

You make it personal and I'm supposed to get over it ? But you're not the only one here doing that so I guess that makes it ok. People don't speak up enough about it. I attack only when I am provoked. My one suspension in 15+ years was from getting angry that another poster was treated like crap and I stuck up for him and said something to the attacker that wasn't so nice.  We have mods who bully people too and make it personal. On the other side @Texsox is a great mod.

[Balta1701]

15 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

With Pena, the Astros knew they were getting good glove defense at SS, whether he hit or not. 

I believe that’s likely the case for Colas. They have upgraded RF defense even if his offense is a downgrade from the middle -of-the-pack performance they got offensively in RF last year.

The difference is that in 2021 the Astros led MLB in runs scored and on top of that they knew they were getting Verlander back. If they downgraded a bit on offense that was ok to them. In 2022 the White Sox were 19th in runs scored, lost Abreu from that team, and oh by the way they replaced their second best pitcher with Clevinger. They have little room for anything other than solid offense from Colas.

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I believe that’s likely the case for Colas. They have upgraded RF defense even if his offense is a downgrade from the middle -of-the-pack performance they got offensively in RF last year.

The difference is that in 2021 the Astros led MLB in runs scored and on top of that they knew they were getting Verlander back. If they downgraded a bit on offense that was ok to them. In 2022 the White Sox were 19th in runs scored, lost Abreu from that team, and oh by the way they replaced their second best pitcher with Clevinger. They have little room for anything other than solid offense from Colas.

One fix will be if their better hitters actually play more games. Kind of difficult to have a good offense if only a handful are available for 100 games.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

The same 2 team race that a 3rd team ran away with last year?

Sports bettors and/or books really like the Sox, around 33% implied odds from a month old article quoting odds that I couldn't confirm.  Didn't see any posted when I quickly checked right now.  But even if that is still accurate, I'm not sure that someone putting it at 10% qualifies as absurd or negativity just for the sake of it.  

They really liked them even more last year. That didnt work out too well. They have lowered their expectations  this year though.

[LittleHurtCG]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

So let's just say the Sox stand pat, because in your opinion, this team isn't good enough to compete for a playoff berth with Conforto + Frazier + Pillar.  Which, by the way, pretty sure the Sox would be the favorites in the ALC by a good bit with that offseason.  I will just remind you that the Conforto + Frazier + Pillar scenario still leaves a very large hole in RF for Colas to take once he earns it.  The difference is that...if Colas doesn't earn it, or he gets hurt, or he comes up and hits .150 in his first month, the Sox still have 3 other major league quality players they can play in the OF that aren't currently on the roster.  If you don't sign anyone, you don't have any of that.  We're looking as Cespedes and Sheets as our starting corners.  

IF the Sox pencil Colas into a corner from day 1 and he flops, or gets hurt...they're fucked.  We can all have our opinions on where this team currently shakes out in this division, but I can promise you that the organization thinks the team is good enough AS IS to win the division.  So certainly supplementing the roster with major league caliber players won't make it worse.

Everyone should be extremely skeptical of whatever this organization thinks is good enough. These same clowns thought it was good enough to sign Manny Machado's best buddy and brother in law over 50 million guaranteed. They also thought it was good enough to run Vaughn and Sheets in the outfield the last couple years. Simply stated they are morons. 

Also, I would be very very skeptical of Conforto's medicals. Are even certain the guy can swing a baseball bat and generate loud contact? 

[pcq]

I understand that teams have money to spend and many teams are worth a few billion. Teams would not offer money they cannot afford to spend.

However I also see the ALC could be in danger of falling off the map, certainly compared to the AL East. Competitive balance could become a serious issue. The cheap teams are as guilty as the big spenders imo. If the big spenders are penalized the cheap teams are also guilty as charged.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

43 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

yeah this is ridiculous. the twins have gotten much worse so far this offseason and the Indians still have flaws. the TLR affect alone should lead to 5-7 more wins for the Sox

Maybe somehow you have missed all the threads being filled up with venom for Hahn and JR ? So i don't think I'm alone in much lowered expectations for this season.

If the goal is to win the division and get a game or 2 of playoff revenue in the hopes JR will spend more fine, go with that then. I have nothing against positive people. Most of my talks with Balta have revolved around me having some hope that things will go right  but  you are less disappointed if you set your expectations too high and most of the time with the Sox you're just fooling yourself and you don't believe it.

[4uckOffCommieScum]

13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I believe that’s likely the case for Colas. They have upgraded RF defense even if his offense is a downgrade from the middle -of-the-pack performance they got offensively in RF last year.

The difference is that in 2021 the Astros led MLB in runs scored and on top of that they knew they were getting Verlander back. If they downgraded a bit on offense that was ok to them. In 2022 the White Sox were 19th in runs scored, lost Abreu from that team, and oh by the way they replaced their second best pitcher with Clevinger. They have little room for anything other than solid offense from Colas.

As bad as the Sox outfield defense was last year, I’d honestly be happy with some no hit gold glove defense at this point. I don’t believe it can be overstated, it had to be the worst outfield defense I have ever seen from a major league team. 

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

53 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

yeah this is ridiculous. the twins have gotten much worse so far this offseason and the Indians still have flaws. the TLR affect alone should lead to 5-7 more wins for the Sox

It’s still the Guardians division to lose. They have actually filled areas of need unlike the Sox. Sox are worse today than they were at the end of last season.

[LittleHurtCG]

13 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

As bad as the Sox outfield defense was last year, I’d honestly be happy with some no hit gold glove defense at this point. I don’t believe it can be overstated, it had to be the worst outfield defense I have ever seen from a major league team. 

The outfield defense was so so bad last year. I'm not exactly sure what the front office was thinking there.  Maybe they were thinking that Eloy and Vaughn and Sheets would have monster offense seasons to offset their dreadful defense? 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Approximately $25M.  Conforto $16-18M, Frazier $3-6M, Pillar $2-3M. 

As for your last sentence, what I am "stuck on" means absolutely nothing.  Believe it or not, we're all die hard Sox fans talking a message board.  What we are stuck on means absolutely nothing and has no bearing on what actually happens, you included.  

Dream on. Time to step back into reality. And reality dictates, one Frazier is about all they can afford. Unless of course Jerry is willing to eat a significant amount of salary and dump guys like Grandal or Lynn (don’t see it happening before the season starts).

[ChiSox59]

10 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Dream on. Time to step back into reality. And reality dictates, one Frazier is about all they can afford. Unless of course Jerry is willing to eat a significant amount of salary and dump guys like Grandal or Lynn (don’t see it happening before the season starts).

Oh, yah?  So how did the Sox afford their $195M payroll last year? 

I also literally said in this very thread that adding those players could result in a) the need to trade someone like Hendriks to clear salary; or b) acquire the LH OF via trade rather than signing.  So I am well aware that the Sox may not get up to $195M.  But its definitely possible and doable. 

But I glad to hear you're completely plugged into the Sox financial situation.  I cannot wait to wave this in your face when the Sox both a) add more than $5M to their payroll rest of offseason; and 2) Colas isn't the opening day RF.   

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Oh, yah?  So how did the Sox afford their $195M payroll last year? 

I also literally said in this very thread that adding those players could result in a) the need to trade someone like Hendriks to clear salary; or b) acquire the LH OF via trade rather than signing.  So I am well aware that the Sox may not get up to $195M.  But its definitely possible and doable. 

But I glad to hear you're completely plugged into the Sox financial situation.  I cannot wait to wave this in your face when the Sox both a) add more than $5M to their payroll rest of offseason; and 2) Colas isn't the opening day RF.   

It’s been widely reported that they have a hard cap at $180M. What makes you think they will exceed this other than wishful thinking?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

This site says they’re already projected at a $179M payroll as is and yet people think they’re going to spend another $25M? wake up.

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/payroll/white-sox

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

45 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Oh, yah?  So how did the Sox afford their $195M payroll last year? 

I also literally said in this very thread that adding those players could result in a) the need to trade someone like Hendriks to clear salary; or b) acquire the LH OF via trade rather than signing.  So I am well aware that the Sox may not get up to $195M.  But its definitely possible and doable. 

But I glad to hear you're completely plugged into the Sox financial situation.  I cannot wait to wave this in your face when the Sox both a) add more than $5M to their payroll rest of offseason; and 2) Colas isn't the opening day RF.   

"Does Conforto + Frazier + Pillar require Sox to dump some money?  It shouldn't - it would put the Sox almost exactly where they were in 2022 payroll wise.   Its unlikely the Sox don't make any trades.   Perhaps the LH OF comes via trade as the means of saving the ~$18M you'd have to pay Conforto. "

Yes you played both sides of the fence very well here by saying those players shouldn't require the Sox to dump some money. But also said the Sox could trade for the LF and thus maybe get Frazier and Pillar somewhere between $5-9M.

A trade for your LF would save approx. 66%-75% of your proposed signings.( Conforto at $18M Frazier at $3M or $6M ,Pillar at 2 or $3M) . I assume you have some idea who the Sox would trade and who they would get since you don't want a 2 rookies playing OF . Do they go with a veteran or a Pre arb OF ?  Who is this LH OF  you would trade for ?

So throw me some proposed trades and finish off your plan here just in case the Sox don't spend $21-$27M on your 3 guys.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

On 12/14/2022 at 10:03 AM, ChiSox59 said:

Approximately $25M.  Conforto $16-18M, Frazier $3-6M, Pillar $2-3M. 

As for your last sentence, what I am "stuck on" means absolutely nothing.  Believe it or not, we're all die hard Sox fans talking a message board.  What we are stuck on means absolutely nothing and has no bearing on what actually happens, you included.  

Looks like you underestimated Frazier

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/35259465/baltimore-orioles-reach-1-year-deal-adam-frazier?platform=amp

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 12/13/2022 at 8:11 PM, Timmy U said:

I don’t understand the Merkin hate in this thread. The article is about how hard Colas is working to earn a shot in the majors. He sounds super humble, saying he got back to work almost immediately after the season because he hates sitting around and he hasn’t accomplished anything. This article is a long way from saying that Colas is definitely the opening day rf. It points out, as we all can see, that Robert is the only outfielder on the roster. I know everyone is frustrated, but this is a pretty innocent piece.

If we just think of Merk as a Sox publicist  and not a journalist he's fine.

[Vote4Pedro]

 

[ChiSoxFanMike]

6 minutes ago, Vote4Pedro said:

 

Keith Law saying they are short a DH proves he doesn’t watch this team.