Jesse Rogers: Sox Sign Benintendi - 5yr / $75M

[SoxBlanco]

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

Eh, matches pollocks 14? 

That’s a fair guess. I actually think he’ll get to 20 playing at the Rate, which is why I’m not as concerned about a lack of power. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

36 minutes ago, bmags said:

It’s not so much about upgrading catcher, it was about adding an all star who may still be getting better and not caring as much about position. Great players, ones that are strong both offensively and defensively, paper over a lot. 
 

And he was like the one great player I could have seen Sox feasibly adding. 
 

I don’t really see another one available. 

That said, of soxtalk favs now, getting varsho I’d be a big fan of.

And re: outman, I think it makes even more sense to get these guys now, but more with seeing if they can be gotten via supplying younger prospects in potential 3 team deals.

Rosenthal suggested a rumored cards/dodgers trade for Dylan Carlson, so maybe that would open up an outman (though cements nootbar).

Right you wanted power and that's where you saw a chance to get it. Totally understandable.

You said something earlier that is the main reason I look elsewhere for power. The Sox are priced out of the big power names so you have to be creative in getting power bats. I settled on Outman for this year. But I did bring him up as a possible trade piece for Kimbrel when that was happening. I also brought up Varsho after the 2021 season ended and now I've brought up Nootbaar right before the Benintendi signing went down after reading he might've been available when the Blue Jays wanted to trade with the Cards.

I trust other organizations known for producing prospect after prospect like the Cards and Dodgers way more than I trust our organization.

People want sure things, I get it, but reality suggests we are priced out of all but a Benintendi type of sure thing. Knowing that, some people rather take a chance on guys who used have a good career than take chances on 25-27 yr old unproven guys with speed, power and defense because they could bust or , they aren't ranked or their development paths were unconventional due to being 7th or 8th round picks and only in 2021 or 2022 did they become a thing.

The unknown is just too scary to rely on right away when the Sox are supposed to be winning a World Series. Gotta be a ranked prospect or formerly good player to spark the hope.

Edited December 17, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[4uckOffCommieScum]

36 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Let’s say Benintendi plays 140 games for the Sox in 2023. How many home runs would you predict he hits?

Between 5 and 20

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

28 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

That’s a fair guess. I actually think he’ll get to 20 playing at the Rate, which is why I’m not as concerned about a lack of power. 

His season ended Sept. 2nd because of the broken hamate bone but he should be more than ready for opening day. However it is the 2nd time he broke it and the fact he couldn't make it back for the playoffs shows it needed  more healing time. Bad wrists do have a tendency to zap power but it's still a possibility he's between 10-15 HR's .

He hasn't hit 20 since 2017 and despite all the graphics on how he would fare in his new home park I'm going to view 20 as unlikely if the ball is the same as last year.

[hankchifan]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

He was basically a DH when he returned so can’t be a shock to him. And he raked. 
 

54 out of 84 games at DH.

With Abreu gone we need Eloy ‘s power in the lineup and DH is the most suitable spot.

[SonofaRoache]

I'm liking this move more and more. I hope he can get back to 15-20 homers. Kudos to the FO, and hopefully more work is done on this roster. 

[Greg Hibbard]

1 hour ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

Between 5 and 20

He hit 20 the year he played 151 games. 
 

I say between 5 and 15

[Chick Mercedes]

1 hour ago, SoxBlanco said:

Let’s say Benintendi plays 140 games for the Sox in 2023. How many home runs would you predict he hits?

Despite the home park he is now in, he has made comments about the approach he was taking at the plate, and it sacrificed power for contact if read that right. If he went to change his launch angle etc, that would seem like he is again changing his approach. So, depends. 

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

3 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

Despite the home park he is now in, he has made comments about the approach he was taking at the plate, and it sacrificed power for contact if read that right. If he went to change his launch angle etc, that would seem like he is again changing his approach. So, depends. 

I think the Sox view him similar to how Eaton was the 1st time around. I don't think they signed him to hit single digit HR's. My expectation is we see him return to form with what he's done in the past.

[Chick Mercedes]

2 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I think the Sox view him similar to how Eaton was the 1st time around. I don't think they signed him to hit single digit HR's. My expectation is we see him return to form with what he's done in the past.

Here’s a good piece examining the questions.

 

https://www.soxon35th.com/analyzing-the-andrew-benintendi-signing/

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I think the Sox view him similar to how Eaton was the 1st time around. I don't think they signed him to hit single digit HR's. My expectation is we see him return to form with what he's done in the past.

I think they signed him because they desperately needed Of help and he was the best available that they could afford. I don’t think they were going to say “nope he might only hit 8 home runs we should go for someone else because that’s the thing we prioritize.”

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

31 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

Here’s a good piece examining the questions.

 

https://www.soxon35th.com/analyzing-the-andrew-benintendi-signing/

Good article Thanks !

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

34 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I think they signed him because they desperately needed Of help and he was the best available that they could afford. I don’t think they were going to say “nope he might only hit 8 home runs we should go for someone else because that’s the thing we prioritize.”

I mean, obviously, but they have loved this guy since before his draft year. I think they are also high on him to begin with.

[A-Train to 35th]

5 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They were not allowed to offer Manny Machado $300 million. 

You are correct, sorry the base offer to Machado was supposedly $250 mil over 8 years (31.25 mil per year), and supposedly there were player incentives that would have added millions more. They also offered more to Wheeler than he signed for with Philly.

To say they weren't allowed to make offers is wrong, the players took the offer that was more comfortable to them, whether it was climate, money, or love, it can't be said that JR didn't allow his GM's to make big offer's.  My take is the player's weren't impressed with the Sox and went elsewhere

[Balta1701]

Just now, A-Train to 35th said:

You are correct, sorry the base offer to Machado was supposedly $250 mil over 8 years (31.25 mil per year), and supposedly there were player incentives that would have added millions more. They also offered more to Wheeler than he signed for with Philly.

To say they weren't allowed to make offers is wrong, the players took the offer that was more comfortable to them, whether it was climate, money, or love, it can't be said that JR didn't allow his GM's to make big offer's.  My take is the player's weren't impressed with the Sox and went elsewhere

There were two team options for years 9-10. Team options for a guys’ aged 37 and 38 seasons are, on paper, very unlikely to be picked up. Any responsible agent would tell their player that, the White Sox’s offer was the guaranteed money, nothing more. 

On top of that, San Diego offered the player option after year 5, which if he stays healthy seems highly likely to be used this year to get a few tens of millions more added onto his deal.

[A-Train to 35th]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

There were two team options for years 9-10. Team options for a guys’ aged 37 and 38 seasons are, on paper, very unlikely to be picked up. Any responsible agent would tell their player that, the White Sox’s offer was the guaranteed money, nothing more. 

On top of that, San Diego offered the player option after year 5, which if he stays healthy seems highly likely to be used this year to get a few tens of millions more added onto his deal.

 It still averaged over 31 mil for 8 years. I'm just saying the GM's were allowed to make offers, while the offer to Wheeler wasn't as big as Machado's it was still reported to be more than the offer he accepted from Philly.  That's what I'm saying nothing more, big offers to free agents were allowed by JR. If they added clauses that any agent would deny, then shame on the Sox for trying to outsmart everyone.  I said, it may have been the player or agent that weren't impressed with the Sox and signed elsewhere.  

Edited December 17, 2022 by A-Train to 35th
sp

[wegner]

6 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Full-time DH.  And honestly, he hit well enough there last year (138 wRC+) to make the move permanent.

Off topic I know, but do we let the Fire Rick thread drop to page 2?  It is the Holiday Season.

[SonofaRoache]

2 hours ago, A-Train to 35th said:

You are correct, sorry the base offer to Machado was supposedly $250 mil over 8 years (31.25 mil per year), and supposedly there were player incentives that would have added millions more. They also offered more to Wheeler than he signed for with Philly.

To say they weren't allowed to make offers is wrong, the players took the offer that was more comfortable to them, whether it was climate, money, or love, it can't be said that JR didn't allow his GM's to make big offer's.  My take is the player's weren't impressed with the Sox and went elsewhere

Mannys offer was a sham. He would have never reached the incentives and the Sox could have limited his PT the last 3 years to make sure there was no vesting. I wouldn't be surprised if JR called Wheeler and told him the importance of family and making the best decision for your family. It's always about appearing to be at the table. 

[SonofaRoache]

18 minutes ago, wegner said:

Off topic I know, but do we let the Fire Rick thread drop to page 2?  It is the Holiday Season.

No. He still is in much need of firing. 

[Chicago White Sox]

42 minutes ago, wegner said:

Off topic I know, but do we let the Fire Rick thread drop to page 2?  It is the Holiday Season.

I don’t think the people will allow…would take a big trade to win back enough respect to let it slip to page 2

[Middle Buffalo]

8 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They were not allowed to offer Manny Machado $300 million. 

$300M includes Machado’s friends and family that the Sox signed.

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, A-Train to 35th said:

 It still averaged over 31 mil for 8 years. I'm just saying the GM's were allowed to make offers, while the offer to Wheeler wasn't as big as Machado's it was still reported to be more than the offer he accepted from Philly.  That's what I'm saying nothing more, big offers to free agents were allowed by JR. If they added clauses that any agent would deny, then shame on the Sox for trying to outsmart everyone.  I said, it may have been the player or agent that weren't impressed with the Sox and signed elsewhere.  

What I find interesting is that after Machado signed with San Diego, KW and Hahn went on the radio screaming that they'd offered more money. Once they said they had offered $310 but with 2 team options, everyone realized they were bullshitting their fans by saying they had offered more money because of the team options.

Then, a year later, they leaked that they had offered Wheeler more money, but this time didn't leak what the contract details were. Because they didn't say what the contract offer was, people have just repeated the mantra that they offered more money than Philly without skepticism - but they literally said the same thing about Machado, and when they said that about Machado it was bullshit. There is plenty of reason to think that they put out the same bullshit story about Wheeler that they put out about their wonderful offer to Machado, they said the same thing both times.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What I find interesting is that after Machado signed with San Diego, KW and Hahn went on the radio screaming that they'd offered more money. Once they said they had offered $310 but with 2 team options, everyone realized they were bullshitting their fans by saying they had offered more money because of the team options.

Then, a year later, they leaked that they had offered Wheeler more money, but this time didn't leak what the contract details were. Because they didn't say what the contract offer was, people have just repeated the mantra that they offered more money than Philly without skepticism - but they literally said the same thing about Machado, and when they said that about Machado it was bullshit. There is plenty of reason to think that they put out the same bullshit story about Wheeler that they put out about their wonderful offer to Machado, they said the same thing both times.

KW specifically said they offered more potentially and that’s actually true.  They offered a $8/$250M base deal with options & incentives that could have brought it to a 10/$350M.  While they were stupid to think Machado wouldn’t just take the higher guarantee, let’s not pretend they lied about they offered.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

KW specifically said they offered more potentially and that’s actually true.  They offered a $8/$250M base deal with options & incentives that could have brought it to a 10/$350M.  While they were stupid to think Machado wouldn’t just take the higher guarantee, let’s not pretend they lied about they offered.

The fact that the incentives were plate appearance based meant it was funny money. 

Sox FO would have never let him reach those. 

[Eminor3rd]

I don’t blame the team for missing on Wheeler; I absolutely blame them for missing on Machado.