Jesse Rogers: Sox Sign Benintendi - 5yr / $75M

[michelangelosmonkey]

16 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

lmao

A self loathing Sox fan...how rare and intriguing.   Thanks for your incite  

[Chicago White Sox]

27 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I think they will thrive.  I think Robert is going to have a full year, 150 games, like he did in 2021.  I think Colas will be great.  Beni is very steady.  Cespedes will take two steps forward in AAA this year.  They've had very bad luck with injuries for two years in a row...they are due for better luck.  

Why do you think Cespedes will take two steps forward this year?

[Snopek]

42 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I think they will thrive.  I think Robert is going to have a full year, 150 games, like he did in 2021.  I think Colas will be great.  Beni is very steady.  Cespedes will take two steps forward in AAA this year.  They've had very bad luck with injuries for two years in a row...they are due for better luck.  

Just because they are due for better luck doesn’t mean they should plan on better luck.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

43 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

A self loathing Sox fan...how rare and intriguing.   Thanks for your incite  

He's a Padres fan.

[greg775]

Now that we got Benintendi, can u imagine if we still had Jose?

Lineup: Timmy, Benny, Robert, Abreu, Yoan, Yasmani (not a bad six-some). Now we go with Timmy, Benny, Robert, Vaughn, Yoan, Sheets, Yasmani (lot of pressure on Vaughn and Sheets this season when it didn't have to be that way. Jose woulda been a huge veteran bat.

Cmon Vaughn/Sheets have a nice offseason and show continued improvement and we might have a decent lineup! 

If we could keep our cool and temper I personally think it'd be nice of some of you to explain to me how my lineup with Abreu wouldn't be kick-butt this season compared to the alternative!! Makes no sense except for Jerry's pocketbook. We also need some leadership and Timmy better fill that void. You gotta want to win. Jose did. Cmon Timmy it's your team!!

Edited December 18, 2022 by greg775

[ron883]

16 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Now that we got Benintendi, can u imagine if we still had Jose?

Lineup: Timmy, Benny, Robert, Abreu, Yoan, Yasmani (not a bad six-some). Now we go with Timmy, Benny, Robert, Vaughn, Yoan, Sheets, Yasmani (lot of pressure on Vaughn and Sheets this season when it didn't have to be that way. Jose woulda been a huge veteran bat.

Cmon Vaughn/Sheets have a nice offseason and show continued improvement and we might have a decent lineup! 

If we could keep our cool and temper I personally think it'd be nice of some of you to explain to me how my lineup with Abreu wouldn't be kick-butt this season compared to the alternative!! Makes no sense except for Jerry's pocketbook. We also need some leadership and Timmy better fill that void. You gotta want to win. Jose did. Cmon Timmy it's your team!!

How do you know? He never won much. 

[greg775]

1 minute ago, ron883 said:

How do you know? He never won much. 

As much as I respect Tony's career he was the wrong man for this team. Hopefully Vaughn can emerge and hopefully they figure out a way to piece together a division winning pitching staff. So many question marks about the pitching to go with what I've said bout the lineup.

[4uckOffCommieScum]

I don’t even respect TLR’s career. He was a forerunner in steroid addled teams with steroid addled stars

[Balta1701]

4 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

One year ago that is what we all thought was our future.   That's pretty much what 2021 Astros did (145 games and 3000 at bats from their top 5 OPS guys, 2022 also 3000 at bats.  Yankees and Dodgers also over 3000 at bats from their top 5).  White Sox got under 2000 at bats from their core five.   Replacing .650 OPS with .850 OPS over extra 1000 at bats fixes our offense no matter what the rookies at 2b and RF do.   

But that’s clearly misleading.

The 2021 Astros did get 3000 plate appearances from their top 6 OPS guys.

That did not include former all star Alex Bregman, who had a .777 OPS and only 400 plate appearances because he struggled with injuries. 

It also doesn’t include Michael Brantley, who was 34 at the time and only played 120 games.

Those Astros created a deep enough roster that when guys like Bregman had injury issues, other people could pick up the slack. 

The 2022 Yankees definitely did not get 3000 plate appearances from their top 5 guys. Neither did the 2021 Yankees, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about there.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

39 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I agree that Cespedes isn't ready yet...but I also think closer than people give him credit for.  He's got a canon of an arm, is fast and has raw power...after signing Benintendi, having an outfield of Colas, Beni and Robert is exciting.  Outman right now is way ahead of Cespedes...but will he be in July?  And what would you have to give up to get him?  If you brought up Cespedes he would immediately give you a plus defender, ++ arm, ++ speed and power.  Maybe Adam Engel with upside?  It's a crucial year for Cespedes so losing a key asset to get Outman feels like you are giving up on Cespedes and not any more likely to succeed.        

There is no such thing as too much of a good thing when it comes to baseball players. The Sox still need a better 4th OF RIGHT Now. They can't wait on Cespedes for this year. But the Sox may feel they now have enough OF anyway. But long way to go. No telling what Hahn is thinking now. We may see a prospect or 2 traded or a piece off the 26  or not much else at all for the rest of the off season.

They have  some depth at 2b as with Romy, Sosa and  Popeye Rodriguez but can any of them provide better than average defense which would be the only way to play them with the Sox if they aren't going to hit. One of them has to step up if that's what the Sox end up going with.

[SoCalChiSox]

32 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 

They have  some depth at 2b as with Romy, Sosa and  Popeye Rodriguez but can any of them provide better than average defense which would be the only way to play them with the Sox if they aren't going to hit. One of them has to step up if that's what the Sox end up going with.

They still need a vet platoon LH 2B.

A bunch of all RH kids at 2B= no bueno

[tray]

While I like Benintendi, I may have preferred signing Bellinger to a one year deal like the Cubs did. He has been injured but he has a much greater upside, is an elite defender with more raw LH power than the diminutive Benny.  My  other thought was that a one year contract with Bellinger may have given the Sox a bit more flexibility to make a long term commitment to another player. That is probably my only gripe about signing Benintendi long term.

 

 

 

[michelangelosmonkey]

6 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why do you think Cespedes will take two steps forward this year?

He has great baseball bloodlines.   He was thought of as MLB.com's #1 International prospect when he signed 2 years ago right now.  He was "considered a five-tool player with above-average tools across the board".   He had been out baseball basically for two years .  Came to US in 2021 and in his first taste in the US, after two years of sitting out he put up a combined .800 OPS across High A and Birmingham.  Last year in the always tough park for hitters Birmingham in 500 at bats he put up a .770 OPS and stole 33 bases at 75% success rate.  This year he's going to hitter friendly Charlotte.   I think if he plays a full year in Charlotte he will be a 30/30 guy.  Yes his strike out rate is concerning but Aaron Judge strikes out 30% of the time.   A lot of guys do.   I know it's an unpopular position to be positive on Soxtalk but...why wouldn't he take a big step forward?  He's just turned 25.  He's Cuban.  Sox destiny is to have an outfield of Cespedes/Robert/Colas for five years.     

[bmags]

Cespedes has been hitting some bombs in winter league.

[michelangelosmonkey]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

But that’s clearly misleading.

The 2021 Astros did get 3000 plate appearances from their top 6 OPS guys.

That did not include former all star Alex Bregman, who had a .777 OPS and only 400 plate appearances because he struggled with injuries. 

It also doesn’t include Michael Brantley, who was 34 at the time and only played 120 games.

Those Astros created a deep enough roster that when guys like Bregman had injury issues, other people could pick up the slack. 

The 2022 Yankees definitely did not get 3000 plate appearances from their top 5 guys. Neither did the 2021 Yankees, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about there.

Sorry...2500 at bats for Yankees. .. was looking at PA.    But the POINT (not misleading) is that TA, Yoan, Robert, Eloy and Grandal were meant to be the core of a powerful offenses and they all had less than 400 at bats.  I chose three teams that were big winners and they all had their key players have more than 500 at bats.   The Braves in 21 had four of their top 5 OPS guys with an average of 600 at bats.  Teams good players sometimes are healthy.  Last year Leury had more at bats than Eloy, Pollock more than Moncada, Harrison more than TA.   If we can replace bad hitters with good over 500-1000 at bats I think it moves the needle....but you are welcome to your negativity. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Sorry...2500 at bats for Yankees. .. was looking at PA.    But the POINT (not misleading) is that TA, Yoan, Robert, Eloy and Grandal were meant to be the core of a powerful offenses and they all had less than 400 at bats.  I chose three teams that were big winners and they all had their key players have more than 500 at bats.   The Braves in 21 had four of their top 5 OPS guys with an average of 600 at bats.  Teams good players sometimes are healthy.  Last year Leury had more at bats than Eloy, Pollock more than Moncada, Harrison more than TA.   If we can replace bad hitters with good over 500-1000 at bats I think it moves the needle....but you are welcome to your negativity. 

The Braves in 2021 lost Ronald Acuna Jr for the season and the guy they were hoping could come back to be their top starter, Soroka, had his ankle blow out again and never threw a pitch. Other guys like Fried and Anderson also spent time on the IL, and Marcel Ozuna had some other non-injury personal issues. Here’s a straightforward article on how the Braves had to overcome those injuries for an improbable title:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/2021-world-series-braves-overcome-big-injuries-slow-start-to-win-improbable-championship/amp/
 

If the White Sox lose Robert in July for the season, Benintendi gets suspended most of the year, and let’s say Lynn never throws a pitch next year, we will hear exactly the same thing about how no one could ever overcome the stuff the White Sox lost to still contend. 

[Chicago White Sox]

23 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

He has great baseball bloodlines.   He was thought of as MLB.com's #1 International prospect when he signed 2 years ago right now.  He was "considered a five-tool player with above-average tools across the board".   He had been out baseball basically for two years .  Came to US in 2021 and in his first taste in the US, after two years of sitting out he put up a combined .800 OPS across High A and Birmingham.  Last year in the always tough park for hitters Birmingham in 500 at bats he put up a .770 OPS and stole 33 bases at 75% success rate.  This year he's going to hitter friendly Charlotte.   I think if he plays a full year in Charlotte he will be a 30/30 guy.  Yes his strike out rate is concerning but Aaron Judge strikes out 30% of the time.   A lot of guys do.   I know it's an unpopular position to be positive on Soxtalk but...why wouldn't he take a big step forward?  He's just turned 25.  He's Cuban.  Sox destiny is to have an outfield of Cespedes/Robert/Colas for five years.     

Why wouldn’t he?  Because he has no plate discipline.  You seem to be on such a crusade for positivity that you lack objectivity.  Cespedes still has a chance to be a major league 4th OF, but he’s got a long way to go before he gets there and you haven’t cited a single reason to believe he will.  When 5’ 9” Cespedes has 80 grade power and walks 15% of the time we can start using Aaron Judge as support believing his 30% K rate won’t be detrimental to major league success.

[michelangelosmonkey]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

There is no such thing as too much of a good thing when it comes to baseball players. The Sox still need a better 4th OF RIGHT Now. They can't wait on Cespedes for this year. But the Sox may feel they now have enough OF anyway. But long way to go. No telling what Hahn is thinking now. We may see a prospect or 2 traded or a piece off the 26  or not much else at all for the rest of the off season.

They have  some depth at 2b as with Romy, Sosa and  Popeye Rodriguez but can any of them provide better than average defense which would be the only way to play them with the Sox if they aren't going to hit. One of them has to step up if that's what the Sox end up going with.

Of course you are right...someone posted the FG article on top prospect bust rate and it was eye opening.  So if you throw Outman, Cespedes and Colas in the outfield maybe one of them becomes really good...maybe none? The larger point is how important is your fifth outfielder.  Look at 2005 WS team.   Jermaine Dye was your second most games played in the outfield and he was Eloy level defense.  Timo Perez was your primary 4th outfielder and 34 year old Carl Everett was 5th...and that team won the WS.   

As for your second base comments...Romy, Sosa and Popeye...you said take a chance on the young guys...Romy put up an .800 OPS across 1200 career minor league at bats and he is by far the worst of the three prospects.   Yes it's a chance playing them but so is signing 30 year old Adam Frazier to $8 mill after .612 OPS season last year.   For a long window and a budget limited to $190 Mill...we need to keep getting value from young guys..

 

[michelangelosmonkey]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The Braves in 2021 lost Ronald Acuna Jr for the season and the guy they were hoping could come back to be their top starter, Soroka, had his ankle blow out again and never threw a pitch. Other guys like Fried and Anderson also spent time on the IL, and Marcel Ozuna had some other non-injury personal issues. Here’s a straightforward article on how the Braves had to overcome those injuries for an improbable title:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/2021-world-series-braves-overcome-big-injuries-slow-start-to-win-improbable-championship/amp/
 

If the White Sox lose Robert in July for the season, Benintendi gets suspended most of the year, and let’s say Lynn never throws a pitch next year, we will hear exactly the same thing about how no one could ever overcome the stuff the White Sox lost to still contend. 

OK that's fair about the Braves...like I said I didn't do an extensive study on playoff teams...just looked at at bats as sorted by OPS.  But I've also followed baseball for a long time and losing five of your best hitters for half a season was unusual last year.  Many teams don't lose any of their guys for half a season.  The White Sox will have another terrible year if our core five have less than 2000 at bats.   Is that framed properly for you?   

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

OK that's fair about the Braves...like I said I didn't do an extensive study on playoff teams...just looked at at bats as sorted by OPS.  But I've also followed baseball for a long time and losing five of your best hitters for half a season was unusual last year.  Many teams don't lose any of their guys for half a season.  The White Sox will have another terrible year if our core five have less than 2000 at bats.   Is that framed properly for you?   

You're right that the White Sox will struggle if their handful of guys don't stay perfectly healthy, but aside from Last Year's Guardians, everyone has severe injuries that they have to deal with. If the White Sox can't overcome injuries, this isn't a statement that the White Sox are unlucky! This is a statement that the White Sox's core is too darn weak, that the team isn't that well put together, and that people are convincing themselves that "no team could survive this many injuries" as a way to cover for that. 

[michelangelosmonkey]

12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why wouldn’t he?  Because he has no plate discipline.  You seem to be on such a crusade for positivity that you lack objectivity.  Cespedes still has a chance to be a major league 4th OF, but he’s got a long way to go before he gets there and you haven’t cited a single reason to believe he will.  When 5’ 9” Cespedes has 80 grade power and walks 15% of the time we can start using Aaron Judge as support believing his 30% K rate won’t be detrimental to major league success.

Your right...no player ever improves their strike out rates from their second season in the minors.  I mean sure Robert had over 25% milb strike out rate that dropped to 19% last year in the majors.  And every year there are dozens of players that dramatically improve their SO rate.  https://www.rotoballer.com/top-strikeout-rate-improvements-for-hitters/987995.  

But yes...canon arm, super fast, good defender, plus plus raw power...strikes out a lot...put a fork in him.   You seem to be on such a crusade for negativity that you lack objectivity.  Good luck with that.  So much fun to look into the future and predict doom.   

[michelangelosmonkey]

11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You're right that the White Sox will struggle if their handful of guys don't stay perfectly healthy, but aside from Last Year's Guardians, everyone has severe injuries that they have to deal with. If the White Sox can't overcome injuries, this isn't a statement that the White Sox are unlucky! This is a statement that the White Sox's core is too darn weak, that the team isn't that well put together, and that people are convincing themselves that "no team could survive this many injuries" as a way to cover for that. 

The Sox team of the 90's..Thomas, Durham, Robin, Ordonez, Ozzie all went through many years of 150 games played...most great players I've ever followed have 5 of 6 years with great health.   To call Robert, TA, Grandall and Moncada weak is just ridiculous.   Sometimes bad luck happens.   Phillies spent a jillion $'s on free agents then for a three year period 19-20-21 they were sub .500 team and last year went to the World Series.   This Soxtalk negativity is exhausting.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

Cespedes has been hitting some bombs in winter league.

ARe you sure that isnt Yoenis ? Baseball ref usually has stats on guys in Winter ball and they have nothing on Yoelqui.

Yoenis is playing in the Dominican Winter League.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Your right...no player ever improves their strike out rates from their second season in the minors.  I mean sure Robert had over 25% milb strike out rate that dropped to 19% last year in the majors.  And every year there are dozens of players that dramatically improve their SO rate.  https://www.rotoballer.com/top-strikeout-rate-improvements-for-hitters/987995.  

But yes...canon arm, super fast, good defender, plus plus raw power...strikes out a lot...put a fork in him.   You seem to be on such a crusade for negativity that you lack objectivity.  Good luck with that.  So much fun to look into the future and predict doom.   

I’m on a crusade for negativity?  Show where I haven’t been objective.

[bmags]

4 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

ARe you sure that isnt Yoenis ? Baseball ref usually has stats on guys in Winter ball and they have nothing on Yoelqui.

Yoenis is playing in the Dominican Winter League.

Lol s%*#. Yes saw tweets and didn’t realize yoenis was even playing anymore. Guess it’s for wbc warm up.

yoenis is hitting some bombs in winter league.