SoxBlanco Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 5:49 PM, bmags said: Eh, matches pollocks 14? Expand That’s a fair guess. I actually think he’ll get to 20 playing at the Rate, which is why I’m not as concerned about a lack of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 (edited) On 12/17/2022 at 5:35 PM, bmags said: It’s not so much about upgrading catcher, it was about adding an all star who may still be getting better and not caring as much about position. Great players, ones that are strong both offensively and defensively, paper over a lot. And he was like the one great player I could have seen Sox feasibly adding. I don’t really see another one available. That said, of soxtalk favs now, getting varsho I’d be a big fan of. And re: outman, I think it makes even more sense to get these guys now, but more with seeing if they can be gotten via supplying younger prospects in potential 3 team deals. Rosenthal suggested a rumored cards/dodgers trade for Dylan Carlson, so maybe that would open up an outman (though cements nootbar). Expand Right you wanted power and that's where you saw a chance to get it. Totally understandable. You said something earlier that is the main reason I look elsewhere for power. The Sox are priced out of the big power names so you have to be creative in getting power bats. I settled on Outman for this year. But I did bring him up as a possible trade piece for Kimbrel when that was happening. I also brought up Varsho after the 2021 season ended and now I've brought up Nootbaar right before the Benintendi signing went down after reading he might've been available when the Blue Jays wanted to trade with the Cards. I trust other organizations known for producing prospect after prospect like the Cards and Dodgers way more than I trust our organization. People want sure things, I get it, but reality suggests we are priced out of all but a Benintendi type of sure thing. Knowing that, some people rather take a chance on guys who used have a good career than take chances on 25-27 yr old unproven guys with speed, power and defense because they could bust or , they aren't ranked or their development paths were unconventional due to being 7th or 8th round picks and only in 2021 or 2022 did they become a thing. The unknown is just too scary to rely on right away when the Sox are supposed to be winning a World Series. Gotta be a ranked prospect or formerly good player to spark the hope. Edited December 17, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4uckOffCommieScum Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 5:36 PM, SoxBlanco said: Let’s say Benintendi plays 140 games for the Sox in 2023. How many home runs would you predict he hits? Expand Between 5 and 20 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 6:01 PM, SoxBlanco said: That’s a fair guess. I actually think he’ll get to 20 playing at the Rate, which is why I’m not as concerned about a lack of power. Expand His season ended Sept. 2nd because of the broken hamate bone but he should be more than ready for opening day. However it is the 2nd time he broke it and the fact he couldn't make it back for the playoffs shows it needed more healing time. Bad wrists do have a tendency to zap power but it's still a possibility he's between 10-15 HR's . He hasn't hit 20 since 2017 and despite all the graphics on how he would fare in his new home park I'm going to view 20 as unlikely if the ball is the same as last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankchifan Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 3:34 PM, bmags said: He was basically a DH when he returned so can’t be a shock to him. And he raked. 54 out of 84 games at DH. Expand With Abreu gone we need Eloy ‘s power in the lineup and DH is the most suitable spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 I'm liking this move more and more. I hope he can get back to 15-20 homers. Kudos to the FO, and hopefully more work is done on this roster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 6:12 PM, FourEyesShottenhoffer said: Between 5 and 20 Expand He hit 20 the year he played 151 games. I say between 5 and 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 5:36 PM, SoxBlanco said: Let’s say Benintendi plays 140 games for the Sox in 2023. How many home runs would you predict he hits? Expand Despite the home park he is now in, he has made comments about the approach he was taking at the plate, and it sacrificed power for contact if read that right. If he went to change his launch angle etc, that would seem like he is again changing his approach. So, depends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 7:19 PM, Chick Mercedes said: Despite the home park he is now in, he has made comments about the approach he was taking at the plate, and it sacrificed power for contact if read that right. If he went to change his launch angle etc, that would seem like he is again changing his approach. So, depends. Expand I think the Sox view him similar to how Eaton was the 1st time around. I don't think they signed him to hit single digit HR's. My expectation is we see him return to form with what he's done in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 7:23 PM, CWSpalehoseCWS said: I think the Sox view him similar to how Eaton was the 1st time around. I don't think they signed him to hit single digit HR's. My expectation is we see him return to form with what he's done in the past. Expand Here’s a good piece examining the questions. https://www.soxon35th.com/analyzing-the-andrew-benintendi-signing/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 7:23 PM, CWSpalehoseCWS said: I think the Sox view him similar to how Eaton was the 1st time around. I don't think they signed him to hit single digit HR's. My expectation is we see him return to form with what he's done in the past. Expand I think they signed him because they desperately needed Of help and he was the best available that they could afford. I don’t think they were going to say “nope he might only hit 8 home runs we should go for someone else because that’s the thing we prioritize.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 7:27 PM, Chick Mercedes said: Here’s a good piece examining the questions. https://www.soxon35th.com/analyzing-the-andrew-benintendi-signing/ Expand Good article Thanks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 7:30 PM, Balta1701 said: I think they signed him because they desperately needed Of help and he was the best available that they could afford. I don’t think they were going to say “nope he might only hit 8 home runs we should go for someone else because that’s the thing we prioritize.” Expand I mean, obviously, but they have loved this guy since before his draft year. I think they are also high on him to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Train to 35th Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 3:07 PM, Y2Jimmy0 said: They were not allowed to offer Manny Machado $300 million. Expand You are correct, sorry the base offer to Machado was supposedly $250 mil over 8 years (31.25 mil per year), and supposedly there were player incentives that would have added millions more. They also offered more to Wheeler than he signed for with Philly. To say they weren't allowed to make offers is wrong, the players took the offer that was more comfortable to them, whether it was climate, money, or love, it can't be said that JR didn't allow his GM's to make big offer's. My take is the player's weren't impressed with the Sox and went elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 8:23 PM, A-Train to 35th said: You are correct, sorry the base offer to Machado was supposedly $250 mil over 8 years (31.25 mil per year), and supposedly there were player incentives that would have added millions more. They also offered more to Wheeler than he signed for with Philly. To say they weren't allowed to make offers is wrong, the players took the offer that was more comfortable to them, whether it was climate, money, or love, it can't be said that JR didn't allow his GM's to make big offer's. My take is the player's weren't impressed with the Sox and went elsewhere Expand There were two team options for years 9-10. Team options for a guys’ aged 37 and 38 seasons are, on paper, very unlikely to be picked up. Any responsible agent would tell their player that, the White Sox’s offer was the guaranteed money, nothing more. On top of that, San Diego offered the player option after year 5, which if he stays healthy seems highly likely to be used this year to get a few tens of millions more added onto his deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Train to 35th Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 (edited) On 12/17/2022 at 8:26 PM, Balta1701 said: There were two team options for years 9-10. Team options for a guys’ aged 37 and 38 seasons are, on paper, very unlikely to be picked up. Any responsible agent would tell their player that, the White Sox’s offer was the guaranteed money, nothing more. On top of that, San Diego offered the player option after year 5, which if he stays healthy seems highly likely to be used this year to get a few tens of millions more added onto his deal. Expand It still averaged over 31 mil for 8 years. I'm just saying the GM's were allowed to make offers, while the offer to Wheeler wasn't as big as Machado's it was still reported to be more than the offer he accepted from Philly. That's what I'm saying nothing more, big offers to free agents were allowed by JR. If they added clauses that any agent would deny, then shame on the Sox for trying to outsmart everyone. I said, it may have been the player or agent that weren't impressed with the Sox and signed elsewhere. Edited December 17, 2022 by A-Train to 35th sp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 3:42 PM, Chicago White Sox said: Full-time DH. And honestly, he hit well enough there last year (138 wRC+) to make the move permanent. Expand Off topic I know, but do we let the Fire Rick thread drop to page 2? It is the Holiday Season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 8:23 PM, A-Train to 35th said: You are correct, sorry the base offer to Machado was supposedly $250 mil over 8 years (31.25 mil per year), and supposedly there were player incentives that would have added millions more. They also offered more to Wheeler than he signed for with Philly. To say they weren't allowed to make offers is wrong, the players took the offer that was more comfortable to them, whether it was climate, money, or love, it can't be said that JR didn't allow his GM's to make big offer's. My take is the player's weren't impressed with the Sox and went elsewhere Expand Mannys offer was a sham. He would have never reached the incentives and the Sox could have limited his PT the last 3 years to make sure there was no vesting. I wouldn't be surprised if JR called Wheeler and told him the importance of family and making the best decision for your family. It's always about appearing to be at the table. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 10:38 PM, wegner said: Off topic I know, but do we let the Fire Rick thread drop to page 2? It is the Holiday Season. Expand No. He still is in much need of firing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 17, 2022 Author Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 10:38 PM, wegner said: Off topic I know, but do we let the Fire Rick thread drop to page 2? It is the Holiday Season. Expand I don’t think the people will allow…would take a big trade to win back enough respect to let it slip to page 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Buffalo Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 3:07 PM, Y2Jimmy0 said: They were not allowed to offer Manny Machado $300 million. Expand $300M includes Machado’s friends and family that the Sox signed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 8:35 PM, A-Train to 35th said: It still averaged over 31 mil for 8 years. I'm just saying the GM's were allowed to make offers, while the offer to Wheeler wasn't as big as Machado's it was still reported to be more than the offer he accepted from Philly. That's what I'm saying nothing more, big offers to free agents were allowed by JR. If they added clauses that any agent would deny, then shame on the Sox for trying to outsmart everyone. I said, it may have been the player or agent that weren't impressed with the Sox and signed elsewhere. Expand What I find interesting is that after Machado signed with San Diego, KW and Hahn went on the radio screaming that they'd offered more money. Once they said they had offered $310 but with 2 team options, everyone realized they were bullshitting their fans by saying they had offered more money because of the team options. Then, a year later, they leaked that they had offered Wheeler more money, but this time didn't leak what the contract details were. Because they didn't say what the contract offer was, people have just repeated the mantra that they offered more money than Philly without skepticism - but they literally said the same thing about Machado, and when they said that about Machado it was bullshit. There is plenty of reason to think that they put out the same bullshit story about Wheeler that they put out about their wonderful offer to Machado, they said the same thing both times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 18, 2022 Author Share Posted December 18, 2022 On 12/18/2022 at 12:31 AM, Balta1701 said: What I find interesting is that after Machado signed with San Diego, KW and Hahn went on the radio screaming that they'd offered more money. Once they said they had offered $310 but with 2 team options, everyone realized they were bullshitting their fans by saying they had offered more money because of the team options. Then, a year later, they leaked that they had offered Wheeler more money, but this time didn't leak what the contract details were. Because they didn't say what the contract offer was, people have just repeated the mantra that they offered more money than Philly without skepticism - but they literally said the same thing about Machado, and when they said that about Machado it was bullshit. There is plenty of reason to think that they put out the same bullshit story about Wheeler that they put out about their wonderful offer to Machado, they said the same thing both times. Expand KW specifically said they offered more potentially and that’s actually true. They offered a $8/$250M base deal with options & incentives that could have brought it to a 10/$350M. While they were stupid to think Machado wouldn’t just take the higher guarantee, let’s not pretend they lied about they offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 On 12/18/2022 at 12:37 AM, Chicago White Sox said: KW specifically said they offered more potentially and that’s actually true. They offered a $8/$250M base deal with options & incentives that could have brought it to a 10/$350M. While they were stupid to think Machado wouldn’t just take the higher guarantee, let’s not pretend they lied about they offered. Expand The fact that the incentives were plate appearance based meant it was funny money. Sox FO would have never let him reach those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 I don’t blame the team for missing on Wheeler; I absolutely blame them for missing on Machado. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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