Jesse Rogers: Sox Sign Benintendi - 5yr / $75M

[Bob Sacamano]

21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I'm not sure why anyone would think this is a good idea with the tiniest bit of effort put in. The stats say that Benintendi has better range and is a better thower than Eloy. Video from last year shows that Eloy was worse at throwing than you thought - every ball that went to LF in one series against Cleveland was turned into a double since they just didn't stop at 1b. If you have to play eloy in the field, LF is already bad for him, in RF where he has to throw even farther would magnify that huge issue. If you have to put Eloy in the field, you'd try to hide him in LF. 

That's true. Benintendi has a noodle arm for sure but watching Eloy throw is pretty bad too.

[ChiSoxTrojan]

34 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

That's true. Benintendi has a noodle arm for sure but watching Eloy throw is pretty bad too.

I imagine it's more that, since Benitendi will be the "everyday" LF, Grifol just wants to leave him alone there, rather than having two guys playing out of position (Eloy in LF and Benitendi in RF).

[Balta1701]

53 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

I imagine it's more that, since Benitendi will be the "everyday" LF, Grifol just wants to leave him alone there, rather than having two guys playing out of position (Eloy in LF and Benitendi in RF).

The problem is there’s no real reason to be having this conversation in January. If you were asked where Eloy will play, all you have to do is say “we think we have 4 strong outfielders right now, we will probably use the DH to keep all those bats in the lineup”. If you’re a manager. One of the things you should do is be weirdly positive about all your guys; and you should be especially careful not to accidentally run down your younger guys. 

Last year, LaRussa  moved Leury to the top of the lineup and said he was having great at bats. But. In the same games, he dropped Vaughn to seventh. Did Vaughn hear that his manager was unhappy with him in that sequence? Change up his approach to go even more the other way? Maybe. Colas already seemed to be unhappy with being kept at A ball last year. Did Colas hear “they’re going to keep me in the minors again to start this year” with this quote? I bet it crosses his mind if he does see it. 

Os this the biggest deal ever? No. But it also could have been simply avoided by being a little more positive about the kid and a little less weirdly specific

[Chicago White Sox]

Anyone else a little worried about this signing?  I know it’s the definition of early, but the dude has 1 %tile hard-hit and barrel rates and appears to have the upper body strength of a nine year old boy.  Throw in some disappointing defense (SSS obviously) and he’s a tough one to get excited about.  I mean, a .316 OBP and a .038 ISO (9th worst in baseball) isn’t going to play at any position let alone LF.  Can’t believe my oldest son will be 13 and still watching our LF slap the ball into the dirt constantly instead of trying to elevate the ball.

[bmags]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Anyone else a little worried about this signing?  I know it’s the definition of early, but the dude has 1 %tile hard-hit and barrel rates and appears to have the upper body strength of a nine year old boy.  Throw in some disappointing defense (SSS obviously) and he’s a tough one to get excited about.  I mean, a .316 OBP and a .038 ISO (9th worst in baseball) isn’t going to play at any position let alone LF.  Can’t believe my oldest son will be 13 and still watching our LF slap the ball into the dirt constantly instead of trying to elevate the ball.

Not really surprised. He was a curious target for a team that had plenty o singles slapping, contact already. They needed power so so so badly. 

[Tnetennba]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Anyone else a little worried about this signing?  I know it’s the definition of early, but the dude has 1 %tile hard-hit and barrel rates and appears to have the upper body strength of a nine year old boy.  Throw in some disappointing defense (SSS obviously) and he’s a tough one to get excited about.  I mean, a .316 OBP and a .038 ISO (9th worst in baseball) isn’t going to play at any position let alone LF.  Can’t believe my oldest son will be 13 and still watching our LF slap the ball into the dirt constantly instead of trying to elevate the ball.

I didn’t have high expectations of his offense when he signed.  I didn’t expect a lot of power, more good contact and good OBP to balance the struggles vs RHP.  His speed and routes in the OF have been pretty bad in my eyes though.  I was expecting a much better defender than what we’ve seen so far.  It’s still early and he has plenty of time to turn it around.  But it’s hard not to see the struggles and not fear another big FA acquisition has come here and fallen flat. 

[Dick Allen]

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Anyone else a little worried about this signing?  I know it’s the definition of early, but the dude has 1 %tile hard-hit and barrel rates and appears to have the upper body strength of a nine year old boy.  Throw in some disappointing defense (SSS obviously) and he’s a tough one to get excited about.  I mean, a .316 OBP and a .038 ISO (9th worst in baseball) isn’t going to play at any position let alone LF.  Can’t believe my oldest son will be 13 and still watching our LF slap the ball into the dirt constantly instead of trying to elevate the ball.

I just never realized how small he is. He isn’t an awful player, although might be in a couple of years. He just seemed so good in Boston. Now he’s a way more expensive, left handed OF version of Nick Madrigal.

[caulfield12]

Someone like a Hunter Renfroe would have been a much more solid and far cheaper addition... would have provided a lot more contract flexibility as well. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by caulfield12

[ChiSox59]

45 minutes ago, bmags said:

Not really surprised. He was a curious target for a team that had plenty o singles slapping, contact already. They needed power so so so badly. 

Who else was there tho? They absolutely had to have a LHH OF. Nimmo signed for $162 million. Benintendi was the next best option. Sure they could have signed Joey Gallo to a one year deal for a bit more power, but honestly the Benintendi deal was fine. He certainly hasn’t looked good in SSS tho. 

[Jerry McNertney]

At best, Benintendi is the 2014-2016 version of Adam Eaton. Short, left-handed with occasional extra base power. Not bad, but nothing to be excited about.

[caulfield12]

25 minutes ago, Jerry McNertney said:

At best, Benintendi is the 2014-2016 version of Adam Eaton. Short, left-handed with occasional extra base power. Not bad, but nothing to be excited about.

Minus the plus OF arm in right that recorded all those assists and boosted his asking price into the stratosphere at the perfect time for a rebuild. 

[caulfield12]

26 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Who else was there tho? They absolutely had to have a LHH OF. Nimmo signed for $162 million. Benintendi was the next best option. Sure they could have signed Joey Gallo to a one year deal for a bit more power, but honestly the Benintendi deal was fine. He certainly hasn’t looked good in SSS tho. 

Not with Colas, Moncada, Grandal and Sheets. 

Certainly nice to have on the roster... that balance, but the single biggest issue continues to be lack of power. 

Matt Carpenter, for example, was relatively cheap LH option.  Dahl would have been another. 

 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

37 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Who else was there tho? They absolutely had to have a LHH OF. Nimmo signed for $162 million. Benintendi was the next best option. Sure they could have signed Joey Gallo to a one year deal for a bit more power, but honestly the Benintendi deal was fine. He certainly hasn’t looked good in SSS tho. 

I wanted Confoto over Beni.  I had Beni and Gallo in the same "relm".  We need more signings like this, not less.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I wanted Confoto over Beni.  I had Beni and Gallo in the same "relm".  We need more signings like this, not less.

Comforto would have been fine since neither player nor team wanted a long term from financial commitment. 

Prove it, make good deal.  A lot less risk attached than five long years of salary commitments. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by caulfield12

[ChiSox59]

57 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I wanted Confoto over Beni.  I had Beni and Gallo in the same "relm".  We need more signings like this, not less.

Exactly.

I think my list had Conforto #2 as well - mainly due to the power -Certainly have been no stranger to banging the Nimmo and Conforto drum here the past half decade. For 2023, I liked the fact that Beni was the better defender and obviously Conforto was a sizable question mark coming off not playing in 22. I’ve been underwhelmed with Benis defense so far, but it’s still so so so so much better than the alternatives. 

Sox fans love to have it both ways - absolutely b**** and moan that Sox don’t sign enough FAs, but whenever they do make “larger” splashes like Yaz or Beni, the fan base turns on them quickly. Good stuff. Finding any FAs that turn out to have surplus value is extremely difficult. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by ChiSox59

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Exactly.

I think my list had Conforto #2 as well - mainly due to the power - but liked the fact that Beni was the better defender. Though I’ve been underwhelmed with his defense so far, it’s still so so so so much better than the alternatives. 

Sox fans love to have it both ways - absolutely b**** and moan that Sox don’t sign enough FAs, but whenever they do make “larger” splashes like Yaz or Beni, the fan base turns on them quickly. Good stuff. 

Because the Dodgers have come up with 8-10 value free agents during that same time period when we had all the playing time in the world to give away... especially 2016-2019. 

But we instead gave up on Narvaez for what, ultimately? 

Could we just find ONE guy like the following? 

 

k*** Hernandez (now super utility, Red Sox) 

Trayce Thompson

Justin Turner

Max Muncy

Chris Taylor

David Peralta/Pollock (2021) 

Tyler Anderson and Andrew Heaney last year

Miguel Rojas

Jayson Heyward

Rich Hill, etc. 

https://dodgersway.com/2022/11/13/dodgers-free-agency-hidden-gems-andrew-friedman/

Wanted Grossman, Matthew Boyd, Tyler Naquin... under the radar guys

 

 

Then they can manage to field a consistent Top Ten farm system so they can trade for for anyone or gold their powder dry for Ohtani this past offseason. 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

The obvious answer will be Andrus, Cueto,  Rodon, McCann, maybe Clevinger this year...that's just not nearly the width and breadth of talent the Dodgers imported. from various sources. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Because the Dodgers have come up with 8-10 value free agents during that same time period when we had all the playing time in the world to give away... especially 2016-2019. 

But we instead gave up on Narvaez for what, ultimately? 

Could we just find ONE guy like the following? 

 

k*** Hernandez (now super utility, Red Sox) 

Trayce Thompson

Justin Turner

Max Muncy

Chris Taylor

David Peralta/Pollock (2021) 

Tyler Anderson and Andrew Heaney last year

Miguel Rojas

Jayson Heyward

Rich Hill, etc. 

https://dodgersway.com/2022/11/13/dodgers-free-agency-hidden-gems-andrew-friedman/

Wanted Grossman, Matthew Boyd, Tyler Naquin... under the radar guys

 

 

Then they can manage to field a consistent Top Ten farm system so they can trade for for anyone or gold their powder dry for Ohtani this past offseason. 

 

The fan base continues to clamor for Free Agents when we know damn well the Sox shop in the vintage or refurbished section . If you happen to suggest youth a lot of the fans moan about playing too many rookies or that they might not be ranked. Funny thing is most of those fans have been clinging to the concept of the "window" still being cracked open. The gems are out there but the fans respond with "he sucks" or "never heard of him".

If you're going to shop for youth or gems you have to find the guys who can play defense ,have some speed or power and their paths to the majors are either blocked or took a circuitous route and find guys who seem to have made changes that enhanced their previous lower draft value to a higher plane. You also need the development people to actually know what they are doing. I'm highly dubious of that last part when you can't seem to get very many to elevate the ball or the take a power hitter and try to make him a singles hitter. I'd rather stress the importance of thinking baseball things such as plate discipline  knowing what pitches to expect in certain counts, a 2 strike approach rather than a 2 strike approach on every pitch.Take more pitches and know your strengths instead of trying to create new strengths that take away from your natural strengths.

Someone like Kelenic was a perfect example of a failed high draft pick who was still young who might've been out there for a reduced price.

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The fan base continues to clamor for Free Agents when we know damn well the Sox shop in the vintage or refurbished section . If you happen to suggest youth a lot of the fans moan about playing too many rookies or that they might not be ranked. Funny thing is most of those fans have been clinging to the concept of the "window" still being cracked open. The gems are out there but the fans respond with "he sucks" or "never heard of him".

If you're going to shop for youth or gems you have to find the guys who can play defense ,have some speed or power and their paths to the majors are either blocked or took a circuitous route and find guys who seem to have made changes that enhanced their previous lower draft value to a higher plane. You also need the development people to actually know what they are doing. I'm highly dubious of that last part when you can't seem to get very many to elevate the ball or the take a power hitter and try to make him a singles hitter. I'd rather stress the importance of thinking baseball things such as plate discipline  knowing what pitches to expect in certain counts, a 2 strike approach rather than a 2 strike approach on every pitch.Take more pitches and know your strengths instead of trying to create new strengths that take away from your natural strengths.

Someone like Kelenic was a perfect example of a failed high draft pick who was still young who might've been out there for a reduced price.

Borchard for Thornton or Damaso Marte when the Pirates were going to be unable to protect him as the third lefty on OD…Quentin for Carter, KW must have made 15-20 moves like that, arms like Jenks and Santos Santos, heck, at this point would even take a De Aza over the usual Palka’s and AJ Reeds and Nick Williams types.

Heck, KW undoubtedly made more good moves 2004-2005 than Hahn has in his entire career as a GM.

Also responsible for Alexei Ramirez, Abreu and 75% of Robert Jr. With Paddy.

Sale, Q, TA7 was due to Sox scout Warren Hughes

 

 

“What’s made it quite so extraordinary, however, is how the White Sox are doing what they’re doing — with a roster comprised of no less than fourteen players acquired through the draft, including hitting on seven No. 1 picks – shortstop Tim Anderson, catcher Zack Collins, outfielder/first baseman Andrew Vaughn, infielder Jake Burger, reliever Garret Crochet, lefty starter Carlos Rodon and (now on the injured) list) second baseman Nick Madrigal. Such success in the draft — accounting for nearly 50% of the team’s active roster — is almost unheard of in baseball, particularly for a team in first place.

As White Sox GM Rick Hahn says, it’s all about scouting, scouting, scouting (as opposed to analytics). In this era of creeping analytics in baseball, there is no bigger champion of scouts in the game than White Sox board chairman Jerry Reinsdorf. The one common denominator in the White Sox draft strategy is that they’ve almost exclusively used their high picks on college players, but even those are never guarantees.

“I give all the credit to our scouting and player development departments,” Hahn said by phone Friday. “Even though we did draft high a lot of years, and it’s true college players are more polished, you still have to really know the players you are drafting and that’s where the scouts come into play. There is no substitute for makeup and character and the ability to deal with adversity.”

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/ny-white-sox-draft-success-madden-20210710-7m242r5os5bnhjvnydeg2uilfm-story.html

Edited April 15, 2023 by caulfield12

[BigHurt3515]

At this point in my White Sox fandom, I will never be excited for a Free agent signing, every time we bring someone in they are not nearly as good as we hope.

[caulfield12]

We don’t need to go through exactly what is left now from ALL those #1’s compared to that moment in time (NY Post article was written)…again…do we?

 

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

At this point in my White Sox fandom, I will never be excited for a Free agent signing, every time we bring someone in they are not nearly as good as we hope.

Unless it’s 2004-2005…you would be right to be skeptical a full 85-90% of the time.

It’s hard to even call the likes of David Robertson and Liam Hendriks huge wins for Hahn when one analyzes fWAR per FA $$$.

You have to be right 60% of the time, and Hahn’s closer to 15-20% over his entire FA history.   Coin flipping, algorithms, throwing darts at a wall or ChatGPT4 would be much better and cost efficient at randomized talent allocation and FA spending.

We should just let Jack Bogle at Vanguard run the Sox as an index fund, lol.

[Dick Allen]

24 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The fan base continues to clamor for Free Agents when we know damn well the Sox shop in the vintage or refurbished section . If you happen to suggest youth a lot of the fans moan about playing too many rookies or that they might not be ranked. Funny thing is most of those fans have been clinging to the concept of the "window" still being cracked open. The gems are out there but the fans respond with "he sucks" or "never heard of him".

If you're going to shop for youth or gems you have to find the guys who can play defense ,have some speed or power and their paths to the majors are either blocked or took a circuitous route and find guys who seem to have made changes that enhanced their previous lower draft value to a higher plane. You also need the development people to actually know what they are doing. I'm highly dubious of that last part when you can't seem to get very many to elevate the ball or the take a power hitter and try to make him a singles hitter. I'd rather stress the importance of thinking baseball things such as plate discipline  knowing what pitches to expect in certain counts, a 2 strike approach rather than a 2 strike approach on every pitch.Take more pitches and know your strengths instead of trying to create new strengths that take away from your natural strengths.

Someone like Kelenic was a perfect example of a failed high draft pick who was still young who might've been out there for a reduced price.

The Sox pick the wrong HS guys when going that route. Hawkins the big miss, but they shocked us all and picked a couple of HS pitchers a couple of years ago overshot, and they suck. And Noah Schultz already has arm problems.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

The Sox pick the wrong HS guys when going that route. Hawkins the big miss, but they shocked us all and picked a couple of HS pitchers a couple of years ago overshot, and they suck. And Noah Schultz already has arm problems.

Spencer Adams was one of those guys. 

[bmags]

9 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Who else was there tho? They absolutely had to have a LHH OF. Nimmo signed for $162 million. Benintendi was the next best option. Sure they could have signed Joey Gallo to a one year deal for a bit more power, but honestly the Benintendi deal was fine. He certainly hasn’t looked good in SSS tho. 

Lol oh it’s nick friedell