So . . . . is the window still open?

[GreenSox]

20 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

How about this version.

If you don’t look at your roster at the start of the year and think “this team should win 100 games”, you need to be thinking about how you will get there long term, because titles go to Teams with good answers to that question:

Even the Astros weren't a "should win 100 games" team last year.  They needed a rookie SS a 2nd year CF (who had barely ever been in their top 20 listings), a young pitcher who had been in the pen the prior year and a return of big-time Verlander.  

And to me, the Sox hope is a similar prescription.  A young RF, a young 2B, some injection of youth  into the pitching, especially as the season goes on, etc.
 

Edited December 26, 2022 by GreenSox

[greg775]

There is no window except one toward mediocrity. Sox proved they realize they are blah middle of the road with their choice as manager and by getting rid of their best hitter. Folks, Pedro is not going to lead us to the division title.

Sox lineup is relying on oft-injured guys like Tim, Eloy, Robert, plus Vaughn, Moncada et. all. The window is slammed shut. Only 'special players' are Cease and Liam. This team blows, folks.

 

[Kyyle23]

3 minutes ago, greg775 said:

There is no window except one toward mediocrity. Sox proved they realize they are blah middle of the road with their choice as manager and by getting rid of their best hitter. Folks, Pedro is not going to lead us to the division title.

Sox lineup is relying on oft-injured guys like Tim, Eloy, Robert, plus Vaughn, Moncada et. all. The window is slammed shut. Only 'special players' are Cease and Liam. This team blows, folks.

 

Thanks Greg solid analysis merry Christmas k

[ShoeLessRob]

There was a window open at one point, but with the screen still in place. Windows probably an inch open now. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

On 12/25/2022 at 4:44 PM, Texsox said:

I'll have some of that Christmas cheer you're drinking. On the surface I agree with you. But deep down we both know that isn't true. So I checked the definition of contender. You are exactly right. According to the denotation of contender then yes, the Sox are contenders. But so too are literally every team in baseball. 

The connotation of the word contender removes the weak contenders and the highly unlikely contenders, leaving the strong contenders. Currently that just isn't this team. But there are still a few months until opening day. 

 

Nah man. If the Sox were in the AL East, I wouldn’t consider them contenders. They are in the Central though. Win the division, make the playoffs and anything can happen. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

On 12/25/2022 at 4:09 PM, T R U said:

Lol, just stop. 

Stop what? And what’s so funny? 

[SoCalChiSox]

15 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Nah man. If the Sox were in the AL East, I wouldn’t consider them contenders. They are in the Central though. Win the division, make the playoffs and anything can happen. 

They still need to make a couple moves just to win the division, IMO.

Cleveland is a much better run organization and for as cheap as we are, they can actually make do on an even tighter budget just fine. We just waste money on clowns and crap. 

They need to get maximum value ASAP from one of Hendriks, Giolito or Anderson to kind of reload the cupboard.

Chicago isn't a bad team, but I wouldn't exactly automatically pencil them in to win the division, without doing more, even if they end up much healthier than last year. 

 

[T R U]

10 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Stop what? And what’s so funny? 

The Sox aren’t serious World Series contenders. It doesn't matter if they back into the playoffs in a weak division, they’re coming off a massively disappointing campaign with many of the same holes remaining that did last year. 
 

like I said earlier, as currently constructed they aren’t a threat to beat teams like Houston, New York, LA, etc. in a few 7 game series. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

11 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

They still need to make a couple moves just to win the division, IMO.

Cleveland is a much better run organization and for as cheap as we are, they can actually make do on an even tighter budget just fine. We just waste money on clowns and crap. 

They need to get maximum value ASAP from one of Hendriks, Giolito or Anderson to kind of reload the cupboard.

Chicago isn't a bad team, but I wouldn't exactly automatically pencil them in to win the division, without doing more, even if they end up much healthier than last year. 

 

Oh I don’t think anyone is penciling them in. A lot has to go right but they do have a bunch of talent. They absolutely can win the division. I don’t know that they’ll be considered favorites to do so though. 

42 minutes ago, T R U said:

The Sox aren’t serious World Series contenders. It doesn't matter if they back into the playoffs in a weak division, they’re coming off a massively disappointing campaign with many of the same holes remaining that did last year. 
 

like I said earlier, as currently constructed they aren’t a threat to beat teams like Houston, New York, LA, etc. in a few 7 game series. 

There are better teams than them for sure. The best team in baseball finishes with the best record after 162. The winner of the tournament wins the World Series though. This year, the best team won the title. Philadelphia got there though. Atlanta won it in 2021. It happens. Get into the playoffs, variance sets in, professional athletes get hot and anything can happen because it’s such a small sample. 

[FloydBannister1983]

On 12/25/2022 at 8:46 PM, Balta1701 said:

How about this one.

Every single champion since 2003 has had a 94 win season or better. They may not have peaked in the regular season where they won their title, but they won at least 94 within 2 years of winning their title. 

The only one that peaked at 94 was the Giants. The Royals peaked at 95. The Red Sox had a run of 95 win teams.

if you want to win a title these days, you need to put a 95 win team on the field. Sometimes your 95 win team will have a bad playoff run but gain experience to win the next year, but they won that many games for a reason, and it wasn’t a crappy division.

2006?

Edit: I now see you wrote 94 wins within two years of the title.

Edited December 27, 2022 by FloydBannister1983

[Highland]

As far as I am concerned, the window is shut because I am convinced the FO is not committed to making this an elite American League franchise. 

[LittleHurtCG]

23 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Even the Astros weren't a "should win 100 games" team last year.  They needed a rookie SS a 2nd year CF (who had barely ever been in their top 20 listings), a young pitcher who had been in the pen the prior year and a return of big-time Verlander.  

And to me, the Sox hope is a similar prescription.  A young RF, a young 2B, some injection of youth  into the pitching, especially as the season goes on, etc.
 

The Sox are not similiar to Houston at all. One is not like the other. Bad prescription. Don't take the medicine. 

[GreenSox]

1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

The Sox are not similiar to Houston at all. One is not like the other. Bad prescription. Don't take the medicine. 

It's the only prescription there is when a team doesn't want to invest in elite free agents.  Mediocre vets and short-term rentals won't cut it.

[greg775]

2 hours ago, Highland said:

As far as I am concerned, the window is shut because I am convinced the FO is not committed to making this an elite American League franchise. 

There's a different vibe now, almost like the organization has taken one too many punches and has gone from an exuberant Muhammad Ali to a fat Jerry Quarry. There's a slight chance the new manager could revitalize things but under Tony's direction combined with deflating injuries (whose fault are those? players or trainers or bad luck?) and front office suits who have made a bunch of insignificant moves the past couple years, this organization is .500 at best more likely .five to eight under .500.

Since canning players friendly manager Ricky, it's been all downhill since. "These kids can play" under RR turned into "we're zombies and there's nothing you fans can do about it. Have a 10 dollar beer and enjoy our 4 hour games."

Edited December 27, 2022 by greg775

[Highland]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

There's a different vibe now, almost like the organization has taken one too many punches and has gone from an exuberant Muhammad Ali to a fat Jerry Quarry. There's a slight chance the new manager could revitalize things but under Tony's direction combined with deflating injuries (whose fault are those? players or trainers or bad luck?) and front office suits who have made a bunch of insignificant moves the past couple years, this organization is .500 at best more likely .five to eight under .500.

Since canning players friendly manager Ricky, it's been all downhill since. "These kids can play" under RR turned into "we're zombies and there's nothing you fans can do about it. Have a 10 dollar beer and enjoy our 4 hour games."

Taking too many punches is one good way of putting it. The franchise has had some success, but it somehow shoots itself in the foot. Some fans dreamed of the team finally dominating the Chicago baseball market, but that's not happening. They send weird messages to fans like finishing in second is a great thing. They don't seem to care about repeating 2005, and that season is becoming a distant memory.

[RTC]

On 12/25/2022 at 1:38 PM, SonofaRoache said:

What window? 

There is no spoon 

[Jack Parkman]

13 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Oh I don’t think anyone is penciling them in. A lot has to go right but they do have a bunch of talent. They absolutely can win the division. I don’t know that they’ll be considered favorites to do so though. 

There are better teams than them for sure. The best team in baseball finishes with the best record after 162. The winner of the tournament wins the World Series though. This year, the best team won the title. Philadelphia got there though. Atlanta won it in 2021. It happens. Get into the playoffs, variance sets in, professional athletes get hot and anything can happen because it’s such a small sample. 

Yeah and one of the teams that is better than them is Cleveland. 

Also, the ALC is and always has been a joke for the most part. 

If they're not contenders in the other 2 AL divisions then they're not contenders period. 

Winning the ALC by being the tallest dwarf is not an accomplishment worth celebrating. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[kgrittenburg]

On 12/25/2022 at 1:37 PM, vilehoopster said:

(Sorry this is in bold. I didn't mean to do that or do it for emphasis. I was a couple paragraphs in when I got called to help with Christmas dinner and so saved it to google docs. When I pasted it in and continued typing, I could not get rid of the bold.)

I put my vote with yes.  I still think there is a real chance for this Sox team to win a World Series. 

First, I never saw the "window" as a guarantee that the Sox would be so powerful that they would be in a couple World Series, no doubt. I saw the idea of a window as something where the Sox would be a strong team, make the playoffs every year for five or so years and if things came together, they could win the World Series.

Well, in my definition of "the window", it's still very much open, and I think the Sox, if things go right, can absolutely make the Series and win it. Were the Phillies one of the best teams in the NL this year? I would say no. Was Washington, the year they won it all, a top-eight team in baseball that year? No, both teams made the playoffs and just got hot at the right time, and I think this Sox team is very capable of that. 

The main reason for my optimism is one simple thing that everyone seems to have forgotten. For all the complaining about needing this or that move in the off-season, everyone seems to have forgotten one HUGE area where the Sox will be much improved: La Russa is gone. 

I absolutely believe 100% that La Russa being gone will make the Sox, at least, ten games better, at least. 

The depth of Jerry's mistake in hiring La Russa cannot be understated, how it wasted two years of Sox talent.

 

I don't think you can overestimate the drag mentally and emotionally having La Russa as a manager must have been on this team. The players are professionals and were able to deal with poor leadership (I'm being nice here) for a while; I'd say well into the first year. But the mental and emotional anchor of every day going out and playing for a manager who was completely unaware and a total goofus has to have taken it toll to the point where it affected the mental approach of the players, and baseball, as much as any sport, is hugely mental. 

I think this mental anchor showed itself in lingering injuries (why rehab hard or hurry back from injury for an insano manager with his not knowing the rules, stupid/ clueless lineups and in-games moves, and obsession with playing a total non-offensive threat every chance he got), and players not being mentally into games, either offensively with horrible at-bats and lunkhead base running and terrible defensive plays. 

Posters on this board keep talking about how it is unrealistic to think that so many players who underachieved last year can bounce back with good years this year. Well, to that, yes and no. Of course not all of them will have good years this year, and some injuries will happen. But I am stating that I believe many, a large percentage, of the players (everyday and pitchers) will show clear improvement over last year. And  I think a large part of that will be because La Russa is gone. Like I said before; this emotional and mental anchor is taken away.

Again, I think the window, with its chance to get back to the Series and win it is still open. I think the talent is there to get back in the playoffs, and from then, anything can happen, again, think of the Senators. 

Also, I think it's hard to overestimate what a stupid move it was for Jerry to hire La Russa and completely waste two years of talent. I think this year (I hope) will make that very evident. 

 

 

[kgrittenburg]

2 minutes ago, kgrittenburg said:

AH YES , THE NAGY FIX, HOW DID THAT WORK OUT FOR DA BEARZZZ

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 12/27/2022 at 5:18 PM, Jack Parkman said:

Yeah and one of the teams that is better than them is Cleveland. 

Also, the ALC is and always has been a joke for the most part. 

If they're not contenders in the other 2 AL divisions then they're not contenders period. 

Winning the ALC by being the tallest dwarf is not an accomplishment worth celebrating. 

It's worth celebrating because there's playoff revenue and our favorite team is now in contention to win a Championship however unlikely you view that.

If you go back the last 11 World Series the AL Central has been in 4 of them while the East has been in 3. SO always a joke doesn't apply. Doesn't matter how many time the Yankees ousted the Twins because the Yankees didn't get to the World Series either.

You can't tell the players it's not worth celebrating when they're all dancing around the clubhouse drinking champagne. They work hard for a goal like that. Plus if they do win the central a lot of things went right and maybe they are btter than we expected and the other teams got some bad luck.

False hope is one thing but expecting disaster once in the playoffs depends entirely on what went right with us or wrong with the other teams during the season.

Edited December 30, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[WBWSF]

Yes the window is still open. If the 2023 White Sox stay healthy they can win over 90 games and be in the playoffs.

[Highland]

18 hours ago, WBWSF said:

Yes the window is still open. If the 2023 White Sox stay healthy they can win over 90 games and be in the playoffs.

The trouble with this logic is that, except for 2005, the Sox have done terrible in the playoffs. Time after time they got their hats handed to them. It would be nice to see them win one playoff series or at least be competitive.

[Snopek]

36 minutes ago, Highland said:

The trouble with this logic is that, except for 2005, the Sox have done terrible in the playoffs. Time after time they got their hats handed to them. It would be nice to see them win one playoff series or at least be competitive.

Yup. There’s obviously truth to the whole “just get in and anything can happen” thing.

But it’s also true that decent but not great teams generally tend to have poorer showings in the playoffs.

Both are true, but it seems like there’s a tendency to treat them as mutually exclusive ideas.

[Bossanoveralls]

Nope.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Quote

So . . . . is the window still open?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!