We suck, so . . . why?

[Tony]

23 hours ago, poppysox said:

I have 67+ years of being a fan and use the same attitude as you outline in the comments.  If the team sucks...find a couple of players to be interested in.  Switching teams isn't really an option...so dreaming a little about the future is a necessity for baseball fans.  

Except for the younger generation, it absolutely is. 

It's fascinating to talk to kids about how they consume sports. I had breakfast this week with family and my cousin, who is 7, is a fan of basically every AL East team as they live outside of Boston. His favorite team right now is the Blue Jays because of Vlad and Bo Bichette. He watches the game recaps on YouTube every morning. I've got two cousins on the other side of my family who are 10 and 12 and they root for Golden State, the Mavs, and the Suns because of Steph, Luka and Devin Booker. And I've heard that from multiple parents, that with kids having access to YouTube at an early age, they aren't "trapped" by just having to root for the team in the city they live in. They like watching stars, like they watching fun, entertaining games. And maybe that's the way to do it. 

Additionally, one of the main reasons why the Cubs and Braves became incredibly popular was their accessibility. People across the country could consume those teams on WGN and TBS. In 2022, you can basically consume everything you want from your phone. As time goes on, teams are going to have to not only produce winners, but players people want to see. A team like the White Sox has relied on fans like us being "born into" Sox fandom and knowing they have their hooks locked in, but I don't think that's going to continue with new generations of fans. 

[White Sox Park]

I follow the Brewers since I live in Wisconsin, but I have never had that thrill watching them, as i've had when something great happens in a Sox game . as more and more of my memories begin to fade away, i'm holding on to baseball with both hands, for as long as I can . every September I lock on to a team that does something for me, and ride it to whatever end they have . sadly, it's worked for years, but damn, come on White Sox, there are people out here that are running out of time, and it sure would be nice to see one more climb to the top .

[greg775]

On 12/26/2022 at 7:31 AM, Texsox said:

As is well documented in several threads. This is a crap franchise. Has been forever. The losers in the 2005 WS went on to build a dynasty (with and without cheating) while the winners went on to be losers. NYY keeps rolling. 

If anyone here tries to be optimistic they are quickly and easily shot down with the facts. We can't draft. We can't trade. We can't develop players. We can't condition them to stay healthy through a season. We can't hire front office. We have the worst ownership group in sports. 

One good thing is we currently have a crappy division but as we most recently proved just being in the playoffs doesn't mean we're contenders. There is no championship window. All there is is playing for the 8th place trophy or pretending to "blow it up and start over" . . . and over, and over again. 

This next season will be another lesson in futility. So what makes it enjoyable for you? What are you looking forward to? 

?

Well, I would be looking forward to the possibility of winning baseball. If Sox could be five over .500 in April and do that again in May 2023, it'd help me a lot.

Unfortunately I'm very close to giving up on baseball. As readers of my posts know I am disenchanted with baseball right now. I won't go thru all the reasons but baseball is not fun anymore. My main beef is there are now two games within a game, both two hours long. The starting pitcher's game which lasts 4 to 5 innings. Then the parade of relievers game. To have a good team u need to win both games within a game. Sox aren't equipped to win both halves consistently.

But what am I looking forward to? Last year it was following Jose's at bats more than the team. Too many injuries for my tastes.

Frankly if this board didn't exist I'd probably stop following baseball completely. I still have my MLB subscription and still watched my share of innings (usually 7 til 9) a year ago.

But right now I can honestly say I hate baseball. Hope I get over it.

Edited December 28, 2022 by greg775

[South Side Hit Men]

On 12/28/2022 at 3:46 PM, greg775 said:

Well, I would be looking forward to the possibility of winning baseball. If Sox could be five over .500 in April and do that again in May 2023, it'd help me a lot.

Unfortunately I'm very close to giving up on baseball. As readers of my posts know I am disenchanted with baseball right now. I won't go thru all the reasons but baseball is not fun anymore. My main beef is there are now two games within a game, both two hours long. The starting pitcher's game which lasts 4 to 5 innings. Then the parade of relievers game. To have a good team u need to win both games within a game. Sox aren't equipped to win both halves consistently.

But what am I looking forward to? Last year it was following Jose's at bats more than the team. Too many injuries for my tastes.

Frankly if this board didn't exist I'd probably stop following baseball completely. I still have my MLB subscription and still watched my share of innings (usually 7 til 9) a year ago.

But right now I can honestly say I hate baseball. Hope I get over it.

Sadly, this is the trend at the national level since Reinsdorf and his fellow owners booted an at least theoretically/partially independent commissioner with an actual owner, and then completely destroyed the integrity of the regular season (expanding to 12-16 team playoffs, rampant steroids, in-season manipulation of baseballs, cancelling the 1994 World Series and most of the 2020  season, etc).

American TV Ratings by Year

World Series / Super Bowl / NBA Finals / NCAA CBB Champ /  NHL Stanley Cup / NCAA CFB D1 NCG  (Canadian audiences not included - Hurts the NHL the most on a percentage basis).

• 1968 MLB 22.8  NFL 36.8
• 1969 MLB 22.4  NFL 36.0
• 1970 MLB 19.4  NFL 39.4
• 1971 MLB 24.2  NFL 39.9
• 1972 MLB 27.6  NFL 44.2
• 1973 MLB 30.7  NFL 42.7
• 1974 MLB 25.6  NFL 41.6  NBA 13.5
• 1975 MLB 28.7  NFL 42.4  NBA 10.1  CBB 21.3
• 1976 MLB 27.5  NFL 42.3  NBA 11.5  CBB 20.4
• 1977 MLB 29.8  NFL 44.4  NBA 12.7  CBB 19.3
• 1978 MLB 32.8  NFL 47.2  NBA   9.9  CBB 19.9
• 1979 MLB 28.5  NFL 47.1  NBA   7.2  CBB 24.1
• 1980 MLB 32.8  NFL 46.3  NBA   8.0  CBB 19.8
• 1981 MLB 30.0  NFL 44.4  NBA   6.7  CBB 20.7
• 1982 MLB 27.9  NFL 49.1  NBA 13.0  CBB 21.6
• 1983 MLB 23.3  NFL 48.6  NBA 12.3  CBB 22.3
• 1984 MLB 22.9  NFL 46.4  NBA 12.1  CBB 19.7
• 1985 MLB 25.3  NFL 46.4  NBA 13.5  CBB 23.3
• 1986 MLB 28.6  NFL 48.3  NBA 14.1  CBB 20.7
• 1987 MLB 24.0  NFL 45.8  NBA 15.9  CBB 23.1
• 1988 MLB 23.9  NFL 41.9  NBA 15.4  CBB 18.8
• 1989 MLB 16.4  NFL 43.5  NBA 15.1  CBB 21.3
• 1990 MLB 20.8  NFL 39.0  NBA 12.3  CBB 20.0
• 1991 MLB 24.0  NFL 41.9  NBA 15.8  CBB 19.4
• 1992 MLB 20.0  NFL 40.3  NBA 14.2  CBB 22.7
• 1993 MLB 17.3  NFL 45.1  NBA 17.9  CBB 22.2
• 1994 MLB   0.0  NFL 45.5  NBA 12.3  CBB 21.6
• 1995 MLB 19.5  NFL 41.3  NBA 13.9  CBB 19.3  NHL 3.4
• 1996 MLB 17.4  NFL 46.0  NBA 16.7  CBB 18.3  NHL 3.6
• 1997 MLB 16.7  NFL 43.3  NBA 16.8  CBB 18.9  NHL 4.0
• 1998 MLB 14.1  NFL 44.5  NBA 18.7  CBB 17.8  NHL 3.3
• 1999 MLB 16.0  NFL 40.2  NBA 11.3  CBB 17.2  NHL 3.4  CFB 17.2
• 2000 MLB 12.4  NFL 43.3  NBA 11.6  CBB 14.1  NHL 3.7  CFB 17.5
• 2001 MLB 15.7  NFL 40.4  NBA 12.1  CBB 15.6  NHL 3.3  CFB 17.8
• 2002 MLB 11.9  NFL 40.4  NBA 10.2  CBB 15.0  NHL 3.6  CFB 13.8
• 2003 MLB 12.8  NFL 40.7  NBA   6.5  CBB 12.6  NHL 2.9  CFB 17.2
• 2004 MLB 15.8  NFL 41.4  NBA 11.5  CBB 11.0  NHL 2.6  CFB 14.8
• 2005 MLB 11.1  NFL 41.1  NBA   8.2  CBB 15.0  NHL 0.0  CFB 13.7
• 2006 MLB 10.1  NFL 41.6  NBA   8.5  CBB 11.2  NHL 1.8  CFB 21.7
• 2007 MLB 10.6  NFL 42.6  NBA   6.2  CBB 12.2  NHL 1.2  CFB 17.4
• 2008 MLB   8.4  NFL 43.1  NBA   9.3  CBB 12.1  NHL 2.6  CFB 14.4
• 2009 MLB 11.7  NFL 42.0  NBA   8.4  CBB 10.8  NHL 2.7  CFB 15.8
• 2010 MLB   8.4  NFL 45.0  NBA 10.6  CBB 14.2  NHL 3.1  CFB 17.2
• 2011 MLB 10.0  NFL 46.0  NBA 10.2  CBB 11.7  NHL 2.7  CFB 15.3
• 2012 MLB   7.6  NFL 47.0  NBA 10.1  CBB 12.3  NHL 1.8  CFB 14.0
• 2013 MLB   8.9  NFL 46.4  NBA 10.4  CBB 14.0  NHL 3.3  CFB 15.1
• 2014 MLB   8.2  NFL 46.7  NBA   9.3  CBB 12.4  NHL 3.0  CFB 14.8
• 2015 MLB   8.6  NFL 47.5  NBA 11.6  CBB 16.0  NHL 3.2  CFB 18.6
• 2016 MLB 12.9  NFL 46.6  NBA 11.4  CBB 10.6  NHL 2.3  CFB 15.0
• 2017 MLB 10.6  NFL 45.3  NBA 11.3  CBB 13.2  NHL 2.7  CFB 14.2
• 2018 MLB   8.3  NFL 43.1  NBA 10.0  CBB   9.2  NHL 2.7  CFB 15.6
• 2019 MLB   8.1  NFL 41.1  NBA   8.8  CBB 11.6  NHL 3.0  CFB 13.8
• 2020 MLB   5.2  NFL 41.6  NBA   4.0  CBB   0.0  NHL 1.0  CFB 14.3
• 2021 MLB   6.5  NFL 38.2  NBA   5.2  CBB   9.4  NHL 1.3  CFB   9.8
• 2022 MLB   6.1  NFL 36.9  NBA   6.6  CBB 17.0  NHL 2.3  CFB 12.1

Edited December 31, 2022 by South Side Hit Men

[The Grinder]

9 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Sadly, this is the trend at the national level since Reinsdorf and his fellow owners booted an at least theoretically/partially independent commissioner with an actual owner, and then completely destroyed the integrity of the regular season (expanding to 12-16 team playoffs, rampant steroids, in-season manipulation of baseballs, cancelling the 1994 World Series and most of the 2020  season, etc).

American TV Ratings by Year

World Series / Super Bowl / NBA Finals / NCAA CBB Champ /  NHL Stanley Cup / NCAA CFB D1 NCG  (Canadian audiences not included - Hurts the NHL the most on a percentage basis).

• 1968 MLB 22.8  NFL 36.8
• 1969 MLB 22.4  NFL 36.0
• 1970 MLB 19.4  NFL 39.4
• 1971 MLB 24.2  NFL 39.9
• 1972 MLB 27.6  NFL 44.2
• 1973 MLB 30.7  NFL 42.7
• 1974 MLB 25.6  NFL 41.6  NBA 13.5
• 1975 MLB 28.7  NFL 42.4  NBA 10.1  CBB 21.3
• 1976 MLB 27.5  NFL 42.3  NBA 11.5  CBB 20.4
• 1977 MLB 29.8  NFL 44.4  NBA 12.7  CBB 19.3
• 1978 MLB 32.8  NFL 47.2  NBA   9.9  CBB 19.9
• 1979 MLB 28.5  NFL 47.1  NBA   7.2  CBB 24.1
• 1980 MLB 32.8  NFL 46.3  NBA   8.0  CBB 19.8
• 1981 MLB 30.0  NFL 44.4  NBA   6.7  CBB 20.7
• 1982 MLB 27.9  NFL 49.1  NBA 13.0  CBB 21.6
• 1983 MLB 23.3  NFL 48.6  NBA 12.3  CBB 22.3
• 1984 MLB 22.9  NFL 46.4  NBA 12.1  CBB 19.7
• 1985 MLB 25.3  NFL 46.4  NBA 13.5  CBB 23.3
• 1986 MLB 28.6  NFL 48.3  NBA 14.1  CBB 20.7
• 1987 MLB 24.0  NFL 45.8  NBA 15.9  CBB 23.1
• 1988 MLB 23.9  NFL 41.9  NBA 15.4  CBB 18.8
• 1989 MLB 16.4  NFL 43.5  NBA 15.1  CBB 21.3
• 1990 MLB 20.8  NFL 39.0  NBA 12.3  CBB 20.0
• 1991 MLB 24.0  NFL 41.9  NBA 15.8  CBB 19.4
• 1992 MLB 20.0  NFL 40.3  NBA 14.2  CBB 22.7
• 1993 MLB 17.3  NFL 45.1  NBA 17.9  CBB 22.2
• 1994 MLB   0.0  NFL 45.5  NBA 12.3  CBB 21.6
• 1995 MLB 19.5  NFL 41.3  NBA 13.9  CBB 19.3  NHL 3.4
• 1996 MLB 17.4  NFL 46.0  NBA 16.7  CBB 18.3  NHL 3.6
• 1997 MLB 16.7  NFL 43.3  NBA 16.8  CBB 18.9  NHL 4.0
• 1998 MLB 14.1  NFL 44.5  NBA 18.7  CBB 17.8  NHL 3.3
• 1999 MLB 16.0  NFL 40.2  NBA 11.3  CBB 17.2  NHL 3.4  CFB 17.2
• 2000 MLB 12.4  NFL 43.3  NBA 11.6  CBB 14.1  NHL 3.7  CFB 17.5
• 2001 MLB 15.7  NFL 40.4  NBA 12.1  CBB 15.6  NHL 3.3  CFB 17.8
• 2002 MLB 11.9  NFL 40.4  NBA 10.2  CBB 15.0  NHL 3.6  CFB 13.8
• 2003 MLB 12.8  NFL 40.7  NBA   6.5  CBB 12.6  NHL 2.9  CFB 17.2
• 2004 MLB 15.8  NFL 41.4  NBA 11.5  CBB 11.0  NHL 2.6  CFB 14.8
• 2005 MLB 11.1  NFL 41.1  NBA   8.2  CBB 15.0  NHL 0.0  CFB 13.7
• 2006 MLB 10.1  NFL 41.6  NBA   8.5  CBB 11.2  NHL 1.8  CFB 21.7
• 2007 MLB 10.6  NFL 42.6  NBA   6.2  CBB 12.2  NHL 1.2  CFB 17.4
• 2008 MLB   8.4  NFL 43.1  NBA   9.3  CBB 12.1  NHL 2.6  CFB 14.4
• 2009 MLB 11.7  NFL 42.0  NBA   8.4  CBB 10.8  NHL 2.7  CFB 15.8
• 2010 MLB   8.4  NFL 45.0  NBA 10.6  CBB 14.2  NHL 3.1  CFB 17.2
• 2011 MLB 10.0  NFL 46.0  NBA 10.2  CBB 11.7  NHL 2.7  CFB 15.3
• 2012 MLB   7.6  NFL 47.0  NBA 10.1  CBB 12.3  NHL 1.8  CFB 14.0
• 2013 MLB   8.9  NFL 46.4  NBA 10.4  CBB 14.0  NHL 3.3  CFB 15.1
• 2014 MLB   8.2  NFL 46.7  NBA   9.3  CBB 12.4  NHL 3.0  CFB 14.8
• 2015 MLB   8.6  NFL 47.5  NBA 11.6  CBB 16.0  NHL 3.2  CFB 18.6
• 2016 MLB 12.9  NFL 46.6  NBA 11.4  CBB 10.6  NHL 2.3  CFB 15.0
• 2017 MLB 10.6  NFL 45.3  NBA 11.3  CBB 13.2  NHL 2.7  CFB 14.2
• 2018 MLB   8.3  NFL 43.1  NBA 10.0  CBB   9.2  NHL 2.7  CFB 15.6
• 2019 MLB   8.1  NFL 41.1  NBA   8.8  CBB 11.6  NHL 3.0  CFB 13.8
• 2020 MLB   5.2  NFL 41.6  NBA   4.0  CBB   0.0  NHL 1.0  CFB 14.3
• 2021 MLB   6.5  NFL 38.2  NBA   5.2  CBB   9.4  NHL 1.3  CFB   9.8
• 2022 MLB   6.1  NFL 36.9  NBA   6.6  CBB 17.0  NHL 2.3  CFB 12.1

Is this a result of consumers having many more viewing options as far as entertainment? Correct me if Im wrong but isnt baseball attendance up?

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, The Grinder said:

Is this a result of consumers having many more viewing options as far as entertainment? Correct me if Im wrong but isnt baseball attendance up?

The US Population increased about 60% (346M vs. just over 200M) over this period.

MLB attendance fell throughout the 2010s, before the owners latest two lockouts bludgeoned it (down 18% since 2008).

The MLB used get even non sports fans to watch / care about the World Series. Now 12M watch, about 3 out of 100 Americans. Now, even large numbers of MLB fans pass on watching the World Series or playoffs.

The Super Bowl grew their ratings over this period, NBA and both College Sports have owned The MLB and the NBA surpassed the sport since Jerry installed Bud Selig to Kill The MLBPA and shake down pathetic local governments.

Americans nearly doubled (20M vs. 11.8M) watching group stage USA Soccer than the 2022 World Series held a month earlier. The MLB gets crushed by fucking Soccer. Despite being televised during a weekday morning / early afternoon. Try telling that to America in the 1980s, people would laugh in your face.

You can thank the greed, ignorance and short sightedness of baseball owners, who run the sport like a dying tobacco company, not a growing entertainment company, and treat their core fans like they are s%*# on the bottom of their shoe.

Sorry, not sorry.

Edited December 31, 2022 by South Side Hit Men

[FloydBannister1983]

13 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Sadly, this is the trend at the national level since Reinsdorf and his fellow owners booted an at least theoretically/partially independent commissioner with an actual owner, and then completely destroyed the integrity of the regular season (expanding to 12-16 team playoffs, rampant steroids, in-season manipulation of baseballs, cancelling the 1994 World Series and most of the 2020  season, etc).

American TV Ratings by Year

World Series / Super Bowl / NBA Finals / NCAA CBB Champ /  NHL Stanley Cup / NCAA CFB D1 NCG  (Canadian audiences not included - Hurts the NHL the most on a percentage basis).

• 1968 MLB 22.8  NFL 36.8
• 1969 MLB 22.4  NFL 36.0
• 1970 MLB 19.4  NFL 39.4
• 1971 MLB 24.2  NFL 39.9
• 1972 MLB 27.6  NFL 44.2
• 1973 MLB 30.7  NFL 42.7
• 1974 MLB 25.6  NFL 41.6  NBA 13.5
• 1975 MLB 28.7  NFL 42.4  NBA 10.1  CBB 21.3
• 1976 MLB 27.5  NFL 42.3  NBA 11.5  CBB 20.4
• 1977 MLB 29.8  NFL 44.4  NBA 12.7  CBB 19.3
• 1978 MLB 32.8  NFL 47.2  NBA   9.9  CBB 19.9
• 1979 MLB 28.5  NFL 47.1  NBA   7.2  CBB 24.1
• 1980 MLB 32.8  NFL 46.3  NBA   8.0  CBB 19.8
• 1981 MLB 30.0  NFL 44.4  NBA   6.7  CBB 20.7
• 1982 MLB 27.9  NFL 49.1  NBA 13.0  CBB 21.6
• 1983 MLB 23.3  NFL 48.6  NBA 12.3  CBB 22.3
• 1984 MLB 22.9  NFL 46.4  NBA 12.1  CBB 19.7
• 1985 MLB 25.3  NFL 46.4  NBA 13.5  CBB 23.3
• 1986 MLB 28.6  NFL 48.3  NBA 14.1  CBB 20.7
• 1987 MLB 24.0  NFL 45.8  NBA 15.9  CBB 23.1
• 1988 MLB 23.9  NFL 41.9  NBA 15.4  CBB 18.8
• 1989 MLB 16.4  NFL 43.5  NBA 15.1  CBB 21.3
• 1990 MLB 20.8  NFL 39.0  NBA 12.3  CBB 20.0
• 1991 MLB 24.0  NFL 41.9  NBA 15.8  CBB 19.4
• 1992 MLB 20.0  NFL 40.3  NBA 14.2  CBB 22.7
• 1993 MLB 17.3  NFL 45.1  NBA 17.9  CBB 22.2
• 1994 MLB   0.0  NFL 45.5  NBA 12.3  CBB 21.6
• 1995 MLB 19.5  NFL 41.3  NBA 13.9  CBB 19.3  NHL 3.4
• 1996 MLB 17.4  NFL 46.0  NBA 16.7  CBB 18.3  NHL 3.6
• 1997 MLB 16.7  NFL 43.3  NBA 16.8  CBB 18.9  NHL 4.0
• 1998 MLB 14.1  NFL 44.5  NBA 18.7  CBB 17.8  NHL 3.3
• 1999 MLB 16.0  NFL 40.2  NBA 11.3  CBB 17.2  NHL 3.4  CFB 17.2
• 2000 MLB 12.4  NFL 43.3  NBA 11.6  CBB 14.1  NHL 3.7  CFB 17.5
• 2001 MLB 15.7  NFL 40.4  NBA 12.1  CBB 15.6  NHL 3.3  CFB 17.8
• 2002 MLB 11.9  NFL 40.4  NBA 10.2  CBB 15.0  NHL 3.6  CFB 13.8
• 2003 MLB 12.8  NFL 40.7  NBA   6.5  CBB 12.6  NHL 2.9  CFB 17.2
• 2004 MLB 15.8  NFL 41.4  NBA 11.5  CBB 11.0  NHL 2.6  CFB 14.8
• 2005 MLB 11.1  NFL 41.1  NBA   8.2  CBB 15.0  NHL 0.0  CFB 13.7
• 2006 MLB 10.1  NFL 41.6  NBA   8.5  CBB 11.2  NHL 1.8  CFB 21.7
• 2007 MLB 10.6  NFL 42.6  NBA   6.2  CBB 12.2  NHL 1.2  CFB 17.4
• 2008 MLB   8.4  NFL 43.1  NBA   9.3  CBB 12.1  NHL 2.6  CFB 14.4
• 2009 MLB 11.7  NFL 42.0  NBA   8.4  CBB 10.8  NHL 2.7  CFB 15.8
• 2010 MLB   8.4  NFL 45.0  NBA 10.6  CBB 14.2  NHL 3.1  CFB 17.2
• 2011 MLB 10.0  NFL 46.0  NBA 10.2  CBB 11.7  NHL 2.7  CFB 15.3
• 2012 MLB   7.6  NFL 47.0  NBA 10.1  CBB 12.3  NHL 1.8  CFB 14.0
• 2013 MLB   8.9  NFL 46.4  NBA 10.4  CBB 14.0  NHL 3.3  CFB 15.1
• 2014 MLB   8.2  NFL 46.7  NBA   9.3  CBB 12.4  NHL 3.0  CFB 14.8
• 2015 MLB   8.6  NFL 47.5  NBA 11.6  CBB 16.0  NHL 3.2  CFB 18.6
• 2016 MLB 12.9  NFL 46.6  NBA 11.4  CBB 10.6  NHL 2.3  CFB 15.0
• 2017 MLB 10.6  NFL 45.3  NBA 11.3  CBB 13.2  NHL 2.7  CFB 14.2
• 2018 MLB   8.3  NFL 43.1  NBA 10.0  CBB   9.2  NHL 2.7  CFB 15.6
• 2019 MLB   8.1  NFL 41.1  NBA   8.8  CBB 11.6  NHL 3.0  CFB 13.8
• 2020 MLB   5.2  NFL 41.6  NBA   4.0  CBB   0.0  NHL 1.0  CFB 14.3
• 2021 MLB   6.5  NFL 38.2  NBA   5.2  CBB   9.4  NHL 1.3  CFB   9.8
• 2022 MLB   6.1  NFL 36.9  NBA   6.6  CBB 17.0  NHL 2.3  CFB 12.1

Strangely there is a significant dip in years the Sox were in the postseason. 1983, 1993, 2000, 2005, 2008, 2021 (compared to the previous full season, 2019).

[Dam8610]

Childhood memories carry it at this point.

[The Mighty Mite]

On 12/27/2022 at 4:49 PM, The Grinder said:

The cubs are a tourist destination 

Wrigley Field is a tourist destination, how many out of towners would attend Flubs games if they played at 35th and Shields. Recent history shows that when the Brewers were in the AL very few fans from Milwaukee would attend Sox- Brewer games in Chicago but many Sox fans including me attended quite a few games in Milwaukee. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by The Mighty Mite

[greg775]

18 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Sadly, this is the trend at the national level since Reinsdorf and his fellow owners booted an at least theoretically/partially independent commissioner with an actual owner, and then completely destroyed the integrity of the regular season (expanding to 12-16 team playoffs, rampant steroids, in-season manipulation of baseballs, cancelling the 1994 World Series and most of the 2020  season, etc).

 

I do agree I also hate MLB postseason setup now. As much as I'm hating on baseball only a surprise Sox season will probably prevent me from not caring at all. As it stands I only follow one and a half teams (Sox and KC somewhat since Iive here).

[Texsox]

4 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Wrigley Field is a tourist destination, how many out of towners would attend Flubs games if they played at 35th and Shields. Recent history shows that when the Brewers were in the AL very few fans from Milwaukee would attend Sox- Brewer games in Chicago but many Sox fans including me attended quite a few games in Milwaukee. 

When I was a GM in Chicago I was invited by our corporate office in Milwaukee to a Brewer's game. We leased our company cars from Selig Leasing and we had "Bud's Seats" for the game. 

I guess the company owner didn't notice the Sox were playing. I showed up in black. I threw the b.s. flag about these being Bud's Seats. We were about five rows behind the Sox dugout. Why would Bud have his seats on the visitor side? 

Anyway, my favorite Ozzie moment. He's playing then and absolutely crushing the ball . . . always at someone. He finally lines one that looks like extra bases and gets robbed by a diving catchb and has a 0fer day. As he nears the dugout he slams his helmet into the wall and you hear "f*** this mother fucking game." Silence all around me. He's looking right at me as I say "he's English really has improved". He gets a huge smile and waves.  

I also learned how to play mound ball. Everyone tosses five bucks into the pot and hands it to the guy on the end. If at the half inning when the players throw the ball towards the mound it stays on the dirt you win the pot. If not, you add five and hand it to the person next to you. By the 3rd inning there were five or six separate games going. You'd hear a buildup as the ball might be rolling then come off. 

 

[Texsox]

3 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I do agree I also hate MLB postseason setup now. As much as I'm hating on baseball only a surprise Sox season will probably prevent me from not caring at all. As it stands I only follow one and a half teams (Sox and KC somewhat since Iive here).

We need to expand to 32 teams, cut the regular season to 154 games, and make it like the NCAA Match Madness. Every team is in. Four 8 team brackets. Move the finals from site to site like the Super Bowl. 

 

[Sox72]

11 hours ago, Texsox said:

We need to expand to 32 teams, cut the regular season to 154 games, and make it like the NCAA Match Madness. Every team is in. Four 8 team brackets. Move the finals from site to site like the Super Bowl. 

 

I vote for relegation. 

[Texsox]

On 12/31/2022 at 1:18 AM, South Side Hit Men said:

Sadly, this is the trend at the national level since Reinsdorf and his fellow owners booted an at least theoretically/partially independent commissioner with an actual owner, and then completely destroyed the integrity of the regular season (expanding to 12-16 team playoffs, rampant steroids, in-season manipulation of baseballs, cancelling the 1994 World Series and most of the 2020  season, etc).

American TV Ratings by Year

World Series / Super Bowl / NBA Finals / NCAA CBB Champ /  NHL Stanley Cup / NCAA CFB D1 NCG  (Canadian audiences not included - Hurts the NHL the most on a percentage basis).

• 1968 MLB 22.8  NFL 36.8
• 1969 MLB 22.4  NFL 36.0
• 1970 MLB 19.4  NFL 39.4
• 1971 MLB 24.2  NFL 39.9
• 1972 MLB 27.6  NFL 44.2
• 1973 MLB 30.7  NFL 42.7
• 1974 MLB 25.6  NFL 41.6  NBA 13.5
• 1975 MLB 28.7  NFL 42.4  NBA 10.1  CBB 21.3
• 1976 MLB 27.5  NFL 42.3  NBA 11.5  CBB 20.4
• 1977 MLB 29.8  NFL 44.4  NBA 12.7  CBB 19.3
• 1978 MLB 32.8  NFL 47.2  NBA   9.9  CBB 19.9
• 1979 MLB 28.5  NFL 47.1  NBA   7.2  CBB 24.1
• 1980 MLB 32.8  NFL 46.3  NBA   8.0  CBB 19.8
• 1981 MLB 30.0  NFL 44.4  NBA   6.7  CBB 20.7
• 1982 MLB 27.9  NFL 49.1  NBA 13.0  CBB 21.6
• 1983 MLB 23.3  NFL 48.6  NBA 12.3  CBB 22.3
• 1984 MLB 22.9  NFL 46.4  NBA 12.1  CBB 19.7
• 1985 MLB 25.3  NFL 46.4  NBA 13.5  CBB 23.3
• 1986 MLB 28.6  NFL 48.3  NBA 14.1  CBB 20.7
• 1987 MLB 24.0  NFL 45.8  NBA 15.9  CBB 23.1
• 1988 MLB 23.9  NFL 41.9  NBA 15.4  CBB 18.8
• 1989 MLB 16.4  NFL 43.5  NBA 15.1  CBB 21.3
• 1990 MLB 20.8  NFL 39.0  NBA 12.3  CBB 20.0
• 1991 MLB 24.0  NFL 41.9  NBA 15.8  CBB 19.4
• 1992 MLB 20.0  NFL 40.3  NBA 14.2  CBB 22.7
• 1993 MLB 17.3  NFL 45.1  NBA 17.9  CBB 22.2
• 1994 MLB   0.0  NFL 45.5  NBA 12.3  CBB 21.6
• 1995 MLB 19.5  NFL 41.3  NBA 13.9  CBB 19.3  NHL 3.4
• 1996 MLB 17.4  NFL 46.0  NBA 16.7  CBB 18.3  NHL 3.6
• 1997 MLB 16.7  NFL 43.3  NBA 16.8  CBB 18.9  NHL 4.0
• 1998 MLB 14.1  NFL 44.5  NBA 18.7  CBB 17.8  NHL 3.3
• 1999 MLB 16.0  NFL 40.2  NBA 11.3  CBB 17.2  NHL 3.4  CFB 17.2
• 2000 MLB 12.4  NFL 43.3  NBA 11.6  CBB 14.1  NHL 3.7  CFB 17.5
• 2001 MLB 15.7  NFL 40.4  NBA 12.1  CBB 15.6  NHL 3.3  CFB 17.8
• 2002 MLB 11.9  NFL 40.4  NBA 10.2  CBB 15.0  NHL 3.6  CFB 13.8
• 2003 MLB 12.8  NFL 40.7  NBA   6.5  CBB 12.6  NHL 2.9  CFB 17.2
• 2004 MLB 15.8  NFL 41.4  NBA 11.5  CBB 11.0  NHL 2.6  CFB 14.8
• 2005 MLB 11.1  NFL 41.1  NBA   8.2  CBB 15.0  NHL 0.0  CFB 13.7
• 2006 MLB 10.1  NFL 41.6  NBA   8.5  CBB 11.2  NHL 1.8  CFB 21.7
• 2007 MLB 10.6  NFL 42.6  NBA   6.2  CBB 12.2  NHL 1.2  CFB 17.4
• 2008 MLB   8.4  NFL 43.1  NBA   9.3  CBB 12.1  NHL 2.6  CFB 14.4
• 2009 MLB 11.7  NFL 42.0  NBA   8.4  CBB 10.8  NHL 2.7  CFB 15.8
• 2010 MLB   8.4  NFL 45.0  NBA 10.6  CBB 14.2  NHL 3.1  CFB 17.2
• 2011 MLB 10.0  NFL 46.0  NBA 10.2  CBB 11.7  NHL 2.7  CFB 15.3
• 2012 MLB   7.6  NFL 47.0  NBA 10.1  CBB 12.3  NHL 1.8  CFB 14.0
• 2013 MLB   8.9  NFL 46.4  NBA 10.4  CBB 14.0  NHL 3.3  CFB 15.1
• 2014 MLB   8.2  NFL 46.7  NBA   9.3  CBB 12.4  NHL 3.0  CFB 14.8
• 2015 MLB   8.6  NFL 47.5  NBA 11.6  CBB 16.0  NHL 3.2  CFB 18.6
• 2016 MLB 12.9  NFL 46.6  NBA 11.4  CBB 10.6  NHL 2.3  CFB 15.0
• 2017 MLB 10.6  NFL 45.3  NBA 11.3  CBB 13.2  NHL 2.7  CFB 14.2
• 2018 MLB   8.3  NFL 43.1  NBA 10.0  CBB   9.2  NHL 2.7  CFB 15.6
• 2019 MLB   8.1  NFL 41.1  NBA   8.8  CBB 11.6  NHL 3.0  CFB 13.8
• 2020 MLB   5.2  NFL 41.6  NBA   4.0  CBB   0.0  NHL 1.0  CFB 14.3
• 2021 MLB   6.5  NFL 38.2  NBA   5.2  CBB   9.4  NHL 1.3  CFB   9.8
• 2022 MLB   6.1  NFL 36.9  NBA   6.6  CBB 17.0  NHL 2.3  CFB 12.1

So about the time of free agency and players free to go to any team. Some folks predicted fans would lose interest when players jumped from team to team all the time. 

And then there are the complaints that golf and baseball are too slow and take too long to finish. Perhaps that is folks lying, but football and basketball are faster pace and shorter broadcasts. 

[elrockinMT]

I think the plan is a return to a healthy team and the ability for those players to produce. We added Benintendi and  I think Colas should be in RF from Day One. Hope springs eternal and we are equal to any team on opening day. Baseball is the greatest game ever and win or lose the Sox are my team. I accept the facts as they are and refuse to wallow in loathing and pity. The team belongs to Jerry R and he doesn’t  have to sell if he doesn’t want to do so I don’t get all crazy about how much he wants spend on overpriced free agents or not spend. My suggestion is to relax and find a hobby to relieve your stress. . 

[Dick Allen]

9 hours ago, Texsox said:

So about the time of free agency and players free to go to any team. Some folks predicted fans would lose interest when players jumped from team to team all the time. 

And then there are the complaints that golf and baseball are too slow and take too long to finish. Perhaps that is folks lying, but football and basketball are faster pace and shorter broadcasts. 

The pitch clock is going to help. I think it will help not only slice off a half hour a game, but it will increase offense.

[Sleepy Harold]

6 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

The pitch clock is going to help. I think it will help not only slice off a half hour a game, but it will increase offense.

Yeah the pitch clock in action is fantastic, wish they would've done it sooner. 

[Greg Hibbard]

First of all, I’m struggling more with my fandom than ever, and I’m on the verge of not following the team this year. As constructed, I do not believe they can win, especially when compared to the Yankees or Astros. I now despise leadership and ownership, especially for TLR, and the water-carrying fan attacks Steve Stone carried out last year that poured gasoline on my on-fire fandom. 

That all being said, one of the things I recently realized is that the whole “number of playoff series won / championships won” barometer is a very flawed metric to evaluate whether an organization is “good” or “bad”, given the historic structure of baseball playoffs, wherein for decades, 2 teams out of 20, or 4 teams out of 24, or 4 teams out of 28 made it to the postseason. That, coupled with the lack of revenue sharing / salary cap, make runaway franchises a real problem in this sport. There were several times (notably, the 1967, 1990, 1994 seasons) where the White Sox were arguably a top 5 franchise in baseball, but had no postseason opportunity to speak of, when they definitely should have for one reason or another. Top 5 out of 20 or 24 or 28 - I’m sorry, but that is good enough. And that is the fault of the system.  The “number of playoff series won” metric looks very bad for a number of franchises not named the Cardinals or Yankees or Dodgers from the 20s until the 00s - look at how many playoff series the Cubs won from 1909 to 2015 -  I believe the answer is 1 (2003). 

Heading into the 2022 season, I went back to see how many organizations since 2000 had won 1 World Series and appeared in the playoffs in 5 seasons. The answer is I believe 10 teams, with the White Sox being one of them. Are the other 20 teams all worse than the White Sox? Are 25 of 30 orgs bad?

The Major League Baseball system (unlike the NFL, which is the opposite) really punishes teams for not being super aggressive with payroll, trades, and other moves, and under the same microscope we put our own franchise under, I wonder how many other organizations folks would want to root for. Would you want to root for the Rangers? The Diamondbacks? The A’s? The Rockies? The Marlins? The Rays?

That all being said, the biggest problem I have is that this organization continues to make bad faith moves towards its fanbase, which it treats with utter contempt. Stone’s antics are part of it, but there’s more. Canceling Soxfest, the one place we have an opportunity to actually call out these things and have the organization appear to be accountable, is inexcusable. 

As a fan I’m heartbroken. 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Greg Hibbard

[Jack Parkman]

4 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Are 25 of 30 orgs bad?

Yes. 

 

[greg775]

14 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Yeah the pitch clock in action is fantastic, wish they would've done it sooner. 

I wonder if the umps will enforce it. The umps do what the umps want to do.

[Sleepy Harold]

37 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I wonder if the umps will enforce it. The umps do what the umps want to do.

They do in the minors with relative ease so I don't envision it being an issue.

[Bossanoveralls]

I say we wouldn't suck near as much if more Sox fans (especially Soxtalk Sox fans) would simply get to know the Vuc as well as they know the jingle.

Because...

[southsider2k5]

 

[southsider2k5]

A few interesting match ups on here that will start to see a lot more games played with NYY against the other 3 teams in the ALC featuring prominently