We're not up there trying to hit singles

[gogosox1959]

New article today in The Athletic: "We're not up there trying to hit singles"  

https://theathletic.com/4032036/2022/12/27/white-sox-hitting-coaches-approach-2023/

Both of the hitting coaches are quoted: Johnson/Castro and "field coordinator" Tosar is tied in.   The three all live close to each in FL.  Approach is analytical game preparation.

Castro : “The numbers are there, the analytics, and we use them. But once you step into the batter’s box, it’s about competing. We’ve already planned for this starting pitcher. We’ve seen his stuff, we know what the stuff does. Now we have a plan.

Chris Johnson. “We’re not up there trying to hit singles, we’re not up there (searching) for the baseball. We’re up there expecting this pitch to be right where we want it, and we’re gonna let it go.”

I also liked: "All three men live close enough to each other in Florida that Oscar Colás and Romy Gonzaalez's thrice-weekly visits to Tosar’s house in Miami for cage sessions so far this offseason have provided a forum for the coaches to share drills...."

[bmags]

Good stuff!

[Bob Sacamano]

Complete 180 from “f*** the homerun”

[Kalapse]

Really liked this. Maybe the most maddening thing about the '22 team was the uncompetitive ABs due to weak contact early in the count, they were up there protecting in 0 and 1 strike counts and it led to a fuckload of weak groundballs.

Quote

“The approach that you would take of staying in the middle of the field is going to help you control the strike zone more,” Castro said. “You’re not going to be swinging at a borderline pitch, strike down and away, in a 1-0 count, for example. It’s going to happen, but we’re going to minimize that. Because we don’t want the weak out, the weak contact when we’re ahead in the count. That’s one thing that we need to get better at.”

 

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, Kalapse said:

Really liked this. Maybe the most maddening thing about the '22 team was the uncompetitive ABs due to weak contact early in the count, they were up there protecting in 0 and 1 strike counts and it led to a fuckload of weak groundballs.

 

Yeah, and the line that last years hitters only knew what a pitcher threw and how hard.

Grifol doing all the stuff I like to hear, but this is pretty table stakes across mlb for years, since 2018 at least. 

[Chicago White Sox]

I don’t think some people realize how big of a deal it is getting rid of Menechino and replacing him with three hitting coaches who want to establish a modern approach.  We saw the impact in small samples last year after players were sent down to AAA and got to work with Chris Johnson.  

For example, Gavin Sheets’ wRC+ against RHP went from 83 prior to his demotion to 122 once he had a chance to work with Chris.  His improvement was supported by a much more pull heavy approach and harder contact, which resulted in a much improved HR/FB rate and 50% gain in ISO.  Just from the eye test you could see he looked more dangerous at the plate.

I don’t expect this new trio to be miracle workers, but when the predecessor was completely incompetent and actively making our hitters worse, it’s not hard to expect massive gains from our core hitters next year.

[bmags]

Another thing is just we focus so much on in game tactics from our managers, but your tactics will always be at a disadvantage when the players aren’t properly prepared.
 

This coaching will help make sure when a pinch hitter comes in they aren’t just flailing wildly.

Other pitchers and hitters are too good now. These tools are gonna help them execute against crazy 98 mph pitches that seem like they shoot up and into your hands.

I also just think Romy is going to be an above average hitter today.

[Tnetennba]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t think some people realize how big of a deal it is getting rid of Menechino and replacing him with three hitting coaches who want to establish a modern approach.  We saw the impact in small samples last year after players were sent down to AAA and got to work with Chris Johnson.  

For example, Gavin Sheets’ wRC+ against RHP went from 83 prior to his demotion to 122 once he had a chance to work with Chris.  His improvement was supported by a much more pull heavy approach and harder contact, which resulted in a much improved HR/FB rate and 50% gain in ISO.  Just from the eye test you could see he looked more dangerous at the plate.

I don’t expect this new trio to be miracle workers, but when the predecessor was completely incompetent and actively making our hitters worse, it’s not hard to expect massive gains from our core hitters next year.

It does seem like the new coaches are really plugged into the modern game.  A rather refreshing change from the asinine, antiquated, and ass-backwards approach of the previous regime. 

[JoshPR]

I like that colas is really involved with these guys. I honestly wouldn't mind playing Romy. My only thing is how is his defense? I think they should sign Duvall and another catcher.  

[bmags]

43 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

I like that colas is really involved with these guys. I honestly wouldn't mind playing Romy. My only thing is how is his defense? I think they should sign Duvall and another catcher.  

He has played pretty much every position in minors, range shouldn’t be a concern and I’d imagine a SS has a good arm. But if jumps are bad may hurt whatever plus range he has.

[JoshPR]

13 minutes ago, bmags said:

He has played pretty much every position in minors, range shouldn’t be a concern and I’d imagine a SS has a good arm. But if jumps are bad may hurt whatever plus range he has.

Thanks. So a lot of these things can be worked on. I honestly think for what's out there they should just run with Romy. This is where losing Mendick hurts. Could be the solid defensive replacement in the late innings. From what I've seen Romy could hit 15-20 HOMERS 

[DirtySox]

2 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

From what I've seen Romy could hit 15-20 HOMERS 

Yep. Romy hits the ball very hard.

[Kalapse]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

Another thing is just we focus so much on in game tactics from our managers, but your tactics will always be at a disadvantage when the players aren’t properly prepared.
 

This coaching will help make sure when a pinch hitter comes in they aren’t just flailing wildly.

Other pitchers and hitters are too good now. These tools are gonna help them execute against crazy 98 mph pitches that seem like they shoot up and into your hands.

I also just think Romy is going to be an above average hitter today.

I'm also bullish on Romy, I've defended him in the past and I'll continue to be an advocate because his profile is exciting.

Small sample but take this from baseball savant: 2022, minimum 100 PA, add a few interesting columns and sort by hard hit%.

Romy's 2022 profile was extremely similar to 2022 Ronald Acuna who had a .366 xwOBA.

Please for the love of god lets get that launch angle up. That's seriously what so many dudes of this team need, a focus on pulling the ball in the air with authority. If Romy can get that Avg LA into the double digits he's going to do a lot of damage.

His all around speed, in limited sample, is very similar to Jose Ramirez and Trevor Story as well. He showed just as much speed last year as Christian Pache and Vidal Brujan.

[Jose Abreu]

Tremendous article. One overlooked part:

Quote

 If describing pitching arsenals in analytical language doesn’t take, simulating them in high-speed reps off machines that reproduce velocity and spin, and eschewing low-speed flips and tosses compared to previous years, will have to do the rest. 

I've been begging for them to get those machines for years. I really think they'll work wonders for guys like Robert when it comes to laying off high-spin sliders out of the zone

[JoshPR]

13 minutes ago, Kalapse said:

I'm also bullish on Romy, I've defended him in the past and I'll continue to be an advocate because his profile is exciting.

Small sample but take this from baseball savant: 2022, minimum 100 PA, add a few interesting columns and sort by hard hit%.

Romy's 2022 profile was extremely similar to 2022 Ronald Acuna who had a .366 xwOBA.

Please for the love of god lets get that launch angle up. That's seriously what so many dudes of this team need, a focus on pulling the ball in the air with authority. If Romy can get that Avg LA into the double digits he's going to do a lot of damage.

His all around speed, in limited sample, is very similar to Jose Ramirez and Trevor Story as well. He showed just as much speed last year as Christian Pache and Vidal Brujan.

Interesting. Maybe instead of spending LETS just go with Romy. I do want Duvall tho. Wouldn't mind Cueto back either

[vilehoopster]

Is Cueto gone? Can the Sox resign him? I thought he signed with another team or something that removed him as an option for the Sox?

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

Is Cueto gone? Can the Sox resign him? I thought he signed with another team or something that removed him as an option for the Sox?

Cueto is not going to sign with us to be a swingman when he can get a SP role for solid money elsewhere.

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t think some people realize how big of a deal it is getting rid of Menechino and replacing him with three hitting coaches who want to establish a modern approach.  We saw the impact in small samples last year after players were sent down to AAA and got to work with Chris Johnson.  

For example, Gavin Sheets’ wRC+ against RHP went from 83 prior to his demotion to 122 once he had a chance to work with Chris.  His improvement was supported by a much more pull heavy approach and harder contact, which resulted in a much improved HR/FB rate and 50% gain in ISO.  Just from the eye test you could see he looked more dangerous at the plate.

I don’t expect this new trio to be miracle workers, but when the predecessor was completely incompetent and actively making our hitters worse, it’s not hard to expect massive gains from our core hitters next year.

Everytime you think that this team was playing a step behind last year, you read something else and learn they were also playing with two hands tied behind their back.  In a history full of questionable moves, the TLR hire continues to justify itself as the worst of the White Sox JR era, second to only to driving MJ off in the worst of either of his franchises.

[wegner]

I am excited to see what this new approach, in combination with the new rules about the shift, is going to do to our offensive output.

[White Sox Park]

For me personally, just the thought of LaRussa not being there in 23, lifts my spirits . after so much optimism and enthusiasm entering spring training, last season was pretty devastating, so i'm hesitant to to believe . that being said, all of this is very exciting.

[The Mighty Mite]

3 hours ago, gogosox1959 said:

New article today in The Athletic: "We're not up there trying to hit singles"  

https://theathletic.com/4032036/2022/12/27/white-sox-hitting-coaches-approach-2023/

Both of the hitting coaches are quoted: Johnson/Castro and "field coordinator" Tosar is tied in.   The three all live close to each in FL.  Approach is analytical game preparation.

Castro : “The numbers are there, the analytics, and we use them. But once you step into the batter’s box, it’s about competing. We’ve already planned for this starting pitcher. We’ve seen his stuff, we know what the stuff does. Now we have a plan.

Chris Johnson. “We’re not up there trying to hit singles, we’re not up there (searching) for the baseball. We’re up there expecting this pitch to be right where we want it, and we’re gonna let it go.”

I also liked: "All three men live close enough to each other in Florida that Oscar Colás and Romy Gonzaalez's thrice-weekly visits to Tosar’s house in Miami for cage sessions so far this offseason have provided a forum for the coaches to share drills...."

This is the age of the home run, what surprises me is our hitters buying in to the singles mentality we saw last year, were they going to be benched or traded if they were on their way to hitting 35 home runs. It's quite all right to cut down on your swing with 2 strikes on you or if the situation calls for just a single to win a game but otherwise look for a pitch that you can drive and get you an extra base hit or a homer.

[EloyJenkins]

Every article about the difference between last year and upcoming is like Fegan taking a giant dump on TLR's head...and I love it. what an absolute disaster we lived through

[Dick Allen]

48 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

This is the age of the home run, what surprises me is our hitters buying in to the singles mentality we saw last year, were they going to be benched or traded if they were on their way to hitting 35 home runs. It's quite all right to cut down on your swing with 2 strikes on you or if the situation calls for just a single to win a game but otherwise look for a pitch that you can drive and get you an extra base hit or a homer.

As much as everyone was to blame Frank M. for it, I still think it was another TLR deal. Frank was the hitting coach when Stanton hit 59. I knw he was the hitting coach when the Marlins hit a lot of singles, but look at their roster. Tony was the guy who told Pujols to try to hit .300 instead of a ton of homers. It worked for him because he was a freak, and baseball was a little different.  There are going to be guys that will be a lot better in 2023, but probably a couple that won't. Who knows exactly how it will turn out? Benin10d didn't exactly hit a ton of homers when coached by these guys. I also think the ball is going to be a bit more lively in 2023

 

But everyone has to admit the new staff seems head and shoulders above the last. Whether that means more wins, who. knows. But it was a better team when Tony left last year until Cleveland beat them at home in September and they just collapsed.  If they stayed close, Cairo is probably a big league manager instead of a minor league roving instructor. 

[bmags]

2 hours ago, Kalapse said:

I'm also bullish on Romy, I've defended him in the past and I'll continue to be an advocate because his profile is exciting.

Small sample but take this from baseball savant: 2022, minimum 100 PA, add a few interesting columns and sort by hard hit%.

Romy's 2022 profile was extremely similar to 2022 Ronald Acuna who had a .366 xwOBA.

Please for the love of god lets get that launch angle up. That's seriously what so many dudes of this team need, a focus on pulling the ball in the air with authority. If Romy can get that Avg LA into the double digits he's going to do a lot of damage.

His all around speed, in limited sample, is very similar to Jose Ramirez and Trevor Story as well. He showed just as much speed last year as Christian Pache and Vidal Brujan.

Hell yeah! I don’t know if you saw this but I applied the recent fangraphs article showing early, highly correlative data between hard hit rate and wRC+ over long term and romy came out sparkling 

 

On 12/20/2022 at 4:36 PM, bmags said:

Great article:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/steven-kwan-geraldo-perdomo-and-the-victor-robles-problem/

Money line:

So I put together some notable sox young players, added Nick madrigal as a low bench mark for reference.

That last column is coming from here, but keep in mind for both Carlos Perez and Lenyn they had so few balls in play they were below any threshold set in this article. But I included them because I was already on the page.

Sox young'ns old'ns

Some things that are interesting. 

Danny Mendick was great last year, but it's unlikely he repeats his very nice .350 babip with how weakly he hits again. He's a nice guy though and i'm fine taking his rehab case on

Jake Burger hits the ball really, really hard. I kinda wish we'd just let him go to the pirates. I really think he can hit.

Seby being in that 97-104 range is kinda nice. Exactly what he kinda looked like.

Obviously takeaway here is Romy hits the ball hard and gets above that 40 BIP threshold. With time, ideally it gets him to nicer production.

Fun thing here is this is what the chart looks like if I include James Outman's 6 Balls in Play

LOL. 

 

[Balta1701]

Genuinely wondering something.

Some players had to have the notion that "hitting the ball on the ground and the other way isn't the best idea and this has to be affecting my career", right? Especially people like Pollock, who had experience with other systems had to know that.

So what do you do when you're not getting information and scouting reports from the team, but you know that type of training and planning is vital for your earnings? Do you go outside the organization or do you just go without it and try to do what the coaches are telling you to do?