We're not up there trying to hit singles

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Genuinely wondering something.

Some players had to have the notion that "hitting the ball on the ground and the other way isn't the best idea and this has to be affecting my career", right? Especially people like Pollock, who had experience with other systems had to know that.

So what do you do when you're not getting information and scouting reports from the team, but you know that type of training and planning is vital for your earnings? Do you go outside the organization or do you just go without it and try to do what the coaches are telling you to do? 

If someone tells you something you don't agree with you immediately quit your job.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If someone tells you something you don't agree with you immediately quit your job.

This was a useful and detailed response and completely helpful and on subject and not at all trolling as it's not bringing in a completely unrelated discussion point into this thread.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

This was a useful and detailed response and completely helpful and on subject and not at all trolling as it's not bringing in a completely unrelated discussion point into this thread.

Bingo.

[Quin]

16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Genuinely wondering something.

Some players had to have the notion that "hitting the ball on the ground and the other way isn't the best idea and this has to be affecting my career", right? Especially people like Pollock, who had experience with other systems had to know that.

So what do you do when you're not getting information and scouting reports from the team, but you know that type of training and planning is vital for your earnings? Do you go outside the organization or do you just go without it and try to do what the coaches are telling you to do? 

Having experienced this first hand in my own work environment (going from two companies with nationwide focus to one focused solely on the NYC/NJ area), when I got brought in the lack of infrastructure in my department was astounding. Everyone thought I was a genius for making what I thought were simple changes, when I explained it was holdover skills/workflow process from my old jobs.

If Pollock were around for more than one year - or if he were an All-Star - maybe he'd have the pull to start arguing for something like "hey, I need ____," but he probably just saw the writing on the wall and bounced. Giolito clearly knew he needed outside help with Katz.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Quin said:

Having experienced this first hand in my own work environment (going from two companies with nationwide focus to one focused solely on the NYC/NJ area), when I got brought in the lack of infrastructure was astounding. Everyone thought I was a genius for making what I thought were simple changes, when I explained it was holdover skills/workflow process from my old jobs.

If Pollock were around for more than one year - or if he were an All-Star - maybe he'd have the pull to start arguing for something like "hey, I need ____," but he probably just saw the writing on the wall and bounced. Giolito clearly knew he needed outside help with Katz.

I'm wondering whether the previous regime would notice success (like the improvement of Sheets, for example) and encourage that, or they'd notice that the guys weren't following the tactics they wanted and have them start doing pushups every time they pop the ball up (Major League reference).

[Tony]

45 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Every article about the difference between last year and upcoming is like Fegan taking a giant dump on TLR's head...and I love it. what an absolute disaster we lived through

That was 100% self-inflicted. 

[bmags]

I think it’s probably just that being a baseball hitter is an incredibly hard job, requiring constant deliberate practice that adjusts to the needs of how pitchers adjust to you, and no matter how advanced an org you came from it can atrophy pretty quick when removed from that environment.

Menechino legitimately got a bunch of swing and miss types to hit for contact. Their approach was basically take advantage of pitches you think you can hit early to avoid getting in 2 strike counts, and then be defensive and don’t k.

Pitchers responded by throwing sliders and off speed early in counts and Sox pitchers flailed grounders. 
 

They had no adjustment, were not prepared beyond that. 
 

Baseball is hard and a wonderful sport. 

[bmags]

I also think menechino got the job because of his work in Charlotte with Robert, who had a crazy swing and miss approach that he harnessed.

I’m guessing more than one thought he was bringing hrniak-big hurt relationships to the team.

But also you have a GM saying “ball go far, team go far” out one side of his mouth and also signing Josh Harrison, Adam Eaton and Leury to his offense.

[wegner]

50 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

As much as everyone was to blame Frank M. for it, I still think it was another TLR deal. Frank was the hitting coach when Stanton hit 59. I knw he was the hitting coach when the Marlins hit a lot of singles, but look at their roster. Tony was the guy who told Pujols to try to hit .300 instead of a ton of homers. It worked for him because he was a freak, and baseball was a little different.  There are going to be guys that will be a lot better in 2023, but probably a couple that won't. Who knows exactly how it will turn out? Benin10d didn't exactly hit a ton of homers when coached by these guys. I also think the ball is going to be a bit more lively in 2023

 

But everyone has to admit the new staff seems head and shoulders above the last. Whether that means more wins, who. knows. But it was a better team when Tony left last year until Cleveland beat them at home in September and they just collapsed.  If they stayed close, Cairo is probably a big league manager instead of a minor league roving instructor. 

Could not agree with you more.  The team's awful stretch at the end of the season absolutely cost Cairo the managerial job.

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

I also think menechino got the job because of his work in Charlotte with Robert, who had a crazy swing and miss approach that he harnessed.

I’m guessing more than one thought he was bringing hrniak-big hurt relationships to the team.

But also you have a GM saying “ball go far, team go far” out one side of his mouth and also signing Josh Harrison, Adam Eaton and Leury to his offense.

When Leury Garcia gets his statue on the concourse, it will be of this monster shot, so idk what you're talking about.

 

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Quin said:

When Leury Garcia gets his statue on the concourse, it will be of this monster shot, so idk what you're talking about.

 

Legit one of the highlights of my Sox life (was there, lost my voice for 3 days)

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Legit one of the highlights of my Sox life (was there, lost my voice for 3 days)

Most insane experience I've ever been to. You couldn't explain that atmosphere to someone who wasn't there.

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, bmags said:

I also think menechino got the job because of his work in Charlotte with Robert, who had a crazy swing and miss approach that he harnessed.

I’m guessing more than one thought he was bringing hrniak-big hurt relationships to the team.

But also you have a GM saying “ball go far, team go far” out one side of his mouth and also signing Josh Harrison, Adam Eaton and Leury to his offense.

Weirdly I thought last year that Leury might have been the guy that the "put the ball in play" approach was the worst for. I always felt like he was swinging for the fences every time and he got a little bit of value as a backup because he'd hit .220 with a lot of strikeouts but occasionally a ball would connect and go over the fence. 

[Chick Mercedes]

6 hours ago, bmags said:

Yeah, and the line that last years hitters only knew what a pitcher threw and how hard.

Grifol doing all the stuff I like to hear, but this is pretty table stakes across mlb for years, since 2018 at least. 

Baby steps equals big progress for this franchise.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

1 hour ago, wegner said:

Could not agree with you more.  The team's awful stretch at the end of the season absolutely cost Cairo the managerial job.

That’s a good thing. Cairo didn’t deserve it. That much is as evident as the lack of teams lining up to offer him even a MiLB managerial job.

[wegner]

7 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

That’s a good thing. Cairo didn’t deserve it. That much is as evident as the lack of teams lining up to offer him even a MiLB managerial job.

Oh I agree with you.  I do not think he deserved a shot.  I was just saying that when the team somewhat turned it around last season, it was his job to lose and then the team went ahead and lost it for him.  A change was obviously necessary.

[Chisoxfn]

5 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

Tremendous article. One overlooked part:

I've been begging for them to get those machines for years. I really think they'll work wonders for guys like Robert when it comes to laying off high-spin sliders out of the zone

Jesus - please tell me the White Sox own those machines. For god sakes I know of high level travel clubs that have those machines (they aren’t cheap but all it takes is on dad with deep pockets to buy). 

[BigHurt3515]

2 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Most insane experience I've ever been to. You couldn't explain that atmosphere to someone who wasn't there.

I was there and just got chills reading your post lol. I brought my brother with my (we live in St. Louis area) and he is not a White Sox fan and even he loved the experience

[southsider2k5]

22 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

I was there and just got chills reading your post lol. I brought my brother with my (we live in St. Louis area) and he is not a White Sox fan and even he loved the experience

I have been to like three games in my lifetime that hit that level.

The Blackout game

Game two of the ALCS 2005, aka the AJ dropped third strike game

and this one.

[wegner]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have been to like three games in my lifetime that hit that level.

The Blackout game

Game two of the ALCS 2005, aka the AJ dropped third strike game

and this one.

I was at that game and it was unbelievable.  I actually like to remember it as the Joe Crede clutch double game.  Later in the year, we were hosting Christmas at our house and we were preparing for that...my wife came down to the basement where I was "cleaning" and I had the rebroadcast of that game on in the background and she said "Why are you watching that...that was the only playoff game you were actually at??!!"...."Yeah, but I didn't see it on TV."

[kgrittenburg]

16 hours ago, Kalapse said:

Really liked this. Maybe the most maddening thing about the '22 team was the uncompetitive ABs due to weak contact early in the count, they were up there protecting in 0 and 1 strike counts and it led to a fuckload of weak groundballs.

 

Robert will spend most of his career swinging at pitches low and away on 1-0 counts

[Kalapse]

17 hours ago, bmags said:

Hell yeah! I don’t know if you saw this but I applied the recent fangraphs article showing early, highly correlative data between hard hit rate and wRC+ over long term and romy came out sparkling 

 

 

Your research is actually why I dug a little deeper into Romy's baseball savant numbers because there seems to be some pretty loud tools with Romy that no one really talks about. He had 1 bolt (running 30 ft/sec) last year, this is meaningful, kind of like max exit velocity it shows that he's capable of high end speed. We need a lot more data but I didn't realize he was THAT fast.

Baseball savant is fun, like there's a free agent catcher who's page looks like this:

[poppysox]

17 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Most insane experience I've ever been to. You couldn't explain that atmosphere to someone who wasn't there.

That feeling for me was achieved in game 2 of ALDS between Boston vs White Sox.  That come from behind win was when fans actually started to believe that it was going to happen IMO.  The stadium actually vibrated.

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Kalapse said:

Your research is actually why I dug a little deeper into Romy's baseball savant numbers because there seems to be some pretty loud tools with Romy that no one really talks about. He had 1 bolt (running 30 ft/sec) last year, this is meaningful, kind of like max exit velocity it shows that he's capable of high end speed. We need a lot more data but I didn't realize he was THAT fast.

Baseball savant is fun, like there's a free agent catcher who's page looks like this:

I wish some place like the athletic a bunch of pitchers about catchers not on their current team about which ones they most like to throw to. I’m about ready to throw out framing numbers, I just don’t care to look at a stat that puts Gary Sanchez as a top catcher. But given next years rule changes you’d think getting a rocket arm like alfaro would end up scooping him to a team but I’d imagine there is a reputation around his game calling and prep.
 

But boy if there was a player for frank menechino it has to be Alfaro.

[pcq]

One of our experts said the pitchers had figured Romy out. Your move.