2nd Base I guess it’s going to be Sosa or Gonzalez?

[ChiSox59]

12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What I don't get is when it's said there is nothing I or anyone here can do about it, that's true, so if we are just supposed to accept reality as it was phrased, what is the purpose of this board? Don't complain, there is nothing you can do. I'm not one that complains about every move. I think Benin10d was probably the safest choice on the next tier of FA. Clevinger will probably be at least as good as Cueto in 2023, maybe not what Cueto was in 2022. I like the manager. but the roster is the same BS they sell us all the time. Why not try to dominate? Why is that a bad thing?

I'd love for the White Sox to have signed Nimmo, Benintendi, Correa, and Rodon, yes.  That'd be very cool. 

[Tony]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Like I said, light those pitchforks.  Certainly will make all the difference in the world. 

Enjoying bending over

[Tony]

28 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What I don't get is when it's said there is nothing I or anyone here can do about it, that's true, so if we are just supposed to accept reality as it was phrased, what is the purpose of this board? Don't complain, there is nothing you can do. I'm not one that complains about every move. I think Benin10d was probably the safest choice on the next tier of FA. Clevinger will probably be at least as good as Cueto in 2023, maybe not what Cueto was in 2022. I like the manager. but the roster is the same BS they sell us all the time. Why not try to dominate? Why is that a bad thing?

It's that attitude that has partly gotten the Sox to where they are at today. "Welp, this is the way it's going to be, I'm still going to buy tickets and watch every day because I love the White Sox, hopefully it's different in 2032." 

Sorry, that's not good enough for me when teams in the same league the White Sox play in operate in a totally different fashion. I have higher expectations for the teams I root for than that. I've said all along I'm not going to stop anyone from being optimistic or rooting the way they want, but doesn't mean I have to agree with it, or join the "Being mad doesn't solve anything" group. The fan base bending over signifies this type of behavior is acceptable. Being upset with the team might not change ownership, but my wallet is going to be heavier, and my time will be spent on things that better serve my interests. 

[raBBit]

Hahn basically said they are trying to add at 2B. Of course he hedged in saying it wasn't entirely necessary.

I would hope they're getting some sort of LH bat who can play 2B and another spot on the diamond or two. Eduardo Escobar just seems like the guy they end up with. Cavan Biggio is a good fit. Nick Gordon seems like a Sox type and they were rumored to be on him but obviously complicated with the Twins and I am not sure that Gordon is a good player.

Thinking outside the box, the Pirates have glut of middle infield prospects and obviously have Oneil Cruz entrenched at SS. I would love to take a look at one of their MLB ready guys in Rodolfo Castro or Ji Hwan Bae. I look at Castro as a young Escobar and I think Bae has some nice upside. Bae might end up on more in the outfield and they may keep Escobar due to his switch hitting and positional flexibility.

In any case, Cruz is obviously going to play. Pirates just took Termarr Johnson who will be a 2B fourth overall. While he has time to mature and they wouldn't necessarily make 2023 roster moves with him in mind, both Nick Gonzalez and Liover Peguero are top five prospects in their system and both will be MLB ready in 2023 playing 2B and SS. 

[he gone.]

2 hours ago, hogan873 said:

Hahn's comment yesterday that they don't see the team as complete leads me to believe they are still looking to add, hopefully at 2B.  The options out there aren't great, unless they pull off a surprising trade.  However, I'd rather them go into the season with a more sure option rather than relying on Sosa or Gonzalez being able to perform out the gate.

If that was the case he had every opportunity in Segura and didn't take it. There's nothing out there via FA, so it's a trade then. If it's a trade it is likely we're trading Hendriks or Giolito. So it's filling one (unimportant) position and creating a hole at another (more important) position. 

The answer was FA. They didn't pursue it out of cheapness. The only remaining answer if this franchise truly cares about "sustained" success is one by one trading this core to try and be a Rays or Cardinals like contender. A team that truly is that 85-95 win team each year and needs a few breaks to win it all, but continuously are in the race. As we've seen with the Phillies this past year it can be done. It doesn't happen very often, but it does happen time to time where it all lines up for a month. 

The current path we're on is neither. Last year and this year are the culmination of a decade of piss poor baseball. The payoff thus far has been an 81 win season, not resigning your best player & face of the franchise over the last decade. This offseason will result in losing (some will say gaining) both Grandal and Giolito. The season after will be Hendriks, Lynn, Anderson, Kelly, Clevinger, Graveman, and Moncada. If you don't win this year and if you don't get bounce back seasons from all the guys we've discussed at nauseum then you're likely looking at trading Hendriks, Lynn, Anderson, Kelly, Graveman, etc. as that core would have proven in back to back years to be incapable of winning a championship. Last & this year were the make or break years and based on the results last year + lack of acquisitions (or trades) of this offseason it's clear that this is a team set to be mired in mediocrity as they are back stuck not choosing a path. 

It truly was as simple as a 2 year deal for a Conforto and a 2 year deal for Segura. You'd be under the tax payment & have a true Championship caliber roster without mortgaging any future or for a long time horizon.  It literally cost $30mm more for 2 years. (That's even letting Abreu go). JR and the Sox FO said no. 

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, he gone. said:

If that was the case he had every opportunity in Segura and didn't take it. There's nothing out there via FA, so it's a trade then. If it's a trade it is likely we're trading Hendriks or Giolito. So it's filling one (unimportant) position and creating a hole at another (more important) position. 

Why?  Sox definitely have some interesting prospects they could acquire a 2B with that aren't named Montgomery or Colas.  If this acquired 2B has control, Sosa and JRod would both be trade candidates as they're then effectively blocked.    

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

Did you write this nonsense post and start it off with “what does this mean?”

Please tell me how Rick Hahn should “go after Gleyber hard”. I do not know what you want Rick Hahn to do. Please clarify.

[Balta1701]

53 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Why?  Sox definitely have some interesting prospects they could acquire a 2B with that aren't named Montgomery or Colas.  If this acquired 2B has control, Sosa and JRod would both be trade candidates as they're then effectively blocked.    
 

The concept still struggles to make sense.

If you’ve got a competitive team with a 2b contributing to that team, why would they give up their 2b with control for guys the White Sox aren’t sure will help them compete?

If the team isn’t competitive and they have a controlled successful 2b, why would they give up their controlled player for White Sox players who haven’t established themselves in the big leagues yet?

In either case, they wouldn’t.

A team might give up a guy with 1-2 years before FA for those guys if they like them, or might give up a more expensive player for them, but that’s not a “controlled 2b”.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, bmags said:

I’d still, if I was Hahn, go after Gleybar hard. 

The Yankees and Dodgers may be the key to the rest of our off season. The Dodgers are being especially quiet. It's not like them to show cracks in their depth and not be thought of as a top 5 team.

Maybe it's a minor reset with thoughts of Ohtani but the Dodgers never put all their eggs in one basket. They've got a lot of talent ready for MLB but that talent is unusually strange in that they do not have fixed positions to play but are highly ranked. That's one reason why I picked Outman out of the bunch. He's an OF who can play CF too. No ranking but power and defense. The ranked guys have great hit tools and power but who knows what positions they end up playing. LF and 1st base and no versatility is not what the Dodgers do when they keep their best prospects.

It wouldn't surprise me to see the Dodgers trade some of that highly ranked talent.

Edited January 4, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[he gone.]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Why?  Sox definitely have some interesting prospects they could acquire a 2B with that aren't named Montgomery or Colas.  If this acquired 2B has control, Sosa and JRod would both be trade candidates as they're then effectively blocked.    

If you're talking about trading prospects then you're limiting your pool to teams that aren't set to compete going into this year and know it (as do their fanbases). You're not going to trade prospects for their starting 2B if that team is trying to compete. So you're left with

 

Washington - Not trading CJ Abrams

Pittsburgh - nobody

Oakland - Kemp - not an upgrade

Miami - Jazz - somewhat realistic, but not getting Jazz for cheap

KC - Massey, Mondesi, Nicky Lopez -- maybe you can pull something off?

Detroit - Schoop

Colorado - Brendan Rodgers (the price based on Miami talks was pretty damn high)

Cinci - India - price is likely to be very high

 

Nothing on that list to me matches up well of price v. potential meaningful upgrade to the Sox. The most realistic that you can convince me on is trading for Mondesi on the low. His speed, especially along side the new pickoff rules could be game changing. He also is always injured and has a terrible OBP. 

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The Yankees and Dodgers may be the key to the rest of our off season. The Dodgers are being especially quiet. It's not like them to show cracks in their depth and not be thought of as a top 5 team.

Maybe it's a minor reset with thoughts of Ohtani but the Dodgers never put all their eggs in one basket. They've got a lot of talent ready for MLB but that talent is unusually strange in that they do not have fixed positions to play but are highly ranked. That's one reason why I picked Outman out of the bunch. He's an OF who can play CF too. No ranking but power and defense. The ranked guys have great hit tools and power but who knows what positions they end up playing. LF and 1st base and no versatility is not what the Dodgers do when they keep their best prospects.

It wouldn't surprise me to see the Dodgers trade some of that highly ranked talent.

The Dodgers have a very good shot right now at resetting themselves under the tax line the year before Ohtani hits the market, a player who they clearly feel would be an absolute goldmine for them.

On top of that, they have a good amount of young talent available that they can work into their rotation this year. And they have various numbers to deal with for Trevor Bauer, who they clearly would like to be rid of. 

They may not run away with the division to the tune of 110 wins this year, it may be a 90 win season for them, but in terms of building their franchise and in terms of the economics, playing out the year without splurging seems smart.

They did the bear minimum - they brought in pitching help (Syndergaard, Kershaw), they added JD Martinez, they added a few guys like Heyward on minor league deals. They may win a wild card this year, but they should still be competitive for that. Avoiding a 50% tax on Ohtani's contract (which is what it would be if they were still in the multi year penalties) is a lot of money.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, he gone. said:

If you're talking about trading prospects then you're limiting your pool to teams that aren't set to compete going into this year and know it (as do their fanbases). You're not going to trade prospects for their starting 2B if that team is trying to compete. So you're left with

 

Washington - Not trading CJ Abrams

Pittsburgh - nobody

Oakland - Kemp - not an upgrade

Miami - Jazz - somewhat realistic, but not getting Jazz for cheap

KC - Massey, Mondesi, Nicky Lopez -- maybe you can pull something off?

Detroit - Schoop

Colorado - Brendan Rodgers (the price based on Miami talks was pretty damn high)

Cinci - India - price is likely to be very high

 

Nothing on that list to me matches up well of price v. potential meaningful upgrade to the Sox. The most realistic that you can convince me on is trading for Mondesi on the low. His speed, especially along side the new pickoff rules could be game changing. He also is always injured and has a terrible OBP. 

There aren't many game changes at 2nd base unless you count Gleybar Torres and his control is 2 years. Probably arent getting him unless you trade Hendriks. Their strength is their infield depth and thats the Sox strength also even though Sosa or JRod may not be ready .

You don't need significant upgrades. As we saw last year with Andrus, he played smart. stole bases, fielded well and hit HR's. He put up 2 War in 43 games. Yes he hit well but also played stellar defense and ran the bases well. These are things we often take for granted, intelligence , poise, professionalism which we got for may years from Abreu.

I saw the same qualities in Andrus and he seemed to love playing in our park, which in itself, seems to be difficult to find. McCann's only 2 decent years were with the Sox. One of the things that Grifol and Hahn agreed on was Benintendi may be a very nice fit for our park.

Sosa may eventually be everything we want at 2b so we don't need someone long term. We need a smart poised guy who hit well in our park and can hold the fort until Sosa is ready . He will give you positive War even if he can't replicate 2 War in 43 games again. I can't say the same for Romy. Everyone doing just a little bit more adds up. It's why quality depth is so important. I wouldn't trade Sosa.

[GreenSox]

As long as Sosa et al can handle the position defensively, we're better off than we would be with yet another average veteran.   We have middle IF prospects.  Leury is the vet - we're stuck.

We do need another OF though.

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

As long as Sosa et al can handle the position defensively, we're better off than we would be with yet another average veteran.   We have middle IF prospects.  Leury is the vet - we're stuck.

We do need another OF though.

Yes. They need someone who can play CF when Robert misses 50-90 games.

[ChiSox59]

3 hours ago, Tony said:

Enjoying bending over

Huh? 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The Dodgers have a very good shot right now at resetting themselves under the tax line the year before Ohtani hits the market, a player who they clearly feel would be an absolute goldmine for them.

On top of that, they have a good amount of young talent available that they can work into their rotation this year. And they have various numbers to deal with for Trevor Bauer, who they clearly would like to be rid of. 

They may not run away with the division to the tune of 110 wins this year, it may be a 90 win season for them, but in terms of building their franchise and in terms of the economics, playing out the year without splurging seems smart.

They did the bear minimum - they brought in pitching help (Syndergaard, Kershaw), they added JD Martinez, they added a few guys like Heyward on minor league deals. They may win a wild card this year, but they should still be competitive for that. Avoiding a 50% tax on Ohtani's contract (which is what it would be if they were still in the multi year penalties) is a lot of money.

Right you're just reiterating what I said, a minor reset. But the Dodgers have Plans B, C, D etc because they know landing Ohtani will not be a slam dunk but they are doing everything in their power to make sure they are as attractive to him as he is to them. They still have to be a top team to stay pretty for him. Players like him want to win a World Series just like I'm sure Trout does but time goes by quickly and to maximize your chance to win as a player you must be near your peak and so does the organization you choose to win a Championship.

We are not talking about the White Sox here. The Dodgers will want to win their division and get to the World Series .

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

35 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

As long as Sosa et al can handle the position defensively, we're better off than we would be with yet another average veteran.   We have middle IF prospects.  Leury is the vet - we're stuck.

We do need another OF though.

Leury can be easily discarded, not stuck with him. He is not indispensable .

Edited January 4, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[shago]

Rangers are loaded with IF prospects and a solid starter group, go get one of them Ezequiel Duran is already MLB experienced w/ upside, they have Jung and Foscue (both going to be MLB starters sooner than later), so they aren't looking for the moon and stars in return. Get er done.

[ChiSoxTrojan]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

There aren't many game changes at 2nd base unless you count Gleybar Torres and his control is 2 years. Probably arent getting him unless you trade Hendriks. Their strength is their infield depth and thats the Sox strength also even though Sosa or JRod may not be ready .

You don't need significant upgrades. As we saw last year with Andrus, he played smart. stole bases, fielded well and hit HR's. He put up 2 War in 43 games. Yes he hit well but also played stellar defense and ran the bases well. These are things we often take for granted, intelligence , poise, professionalism which we got for may years from Abreu.

I saw the same qualities in Andrus and he seemed to love playing in our park, which in itself, seems to be difficult to find. McCann's only 2 decent years were with the Sox. One of the things that Grifol and Hahn agreed on was Benintendi may be a very nice fit for our park.

Sosa may eventually be everything we want at 2b so we don't need someone long term. We need a smart poised guy who hit well in our park and can hold the fort until Sosa is ready . He will give you positive War even if he can't replicate 2 War in 43 games again. I can't say the same for Romy. Everyone doing just a little bit more adds up. It's why quality depth is so important. I wouldn't trade Sosa.

Agreed. I'll just add that ideally any addition at 2B is left-handed, or at least a switch hitter who can hold his own against RHP. Realistically, any combination of Romy/Sosa/Leury probably puts up about a .600 OPS against RHP. It's shouldn't be that tough to find a left-handed backup infielder who could put up a .700-.750 OPS against RHP in a platoon role, and that would take a lot of pressure off the rookies and help prevent the position from being a black hole offensively.

The Sox shouldn't have to trade their top prospects, but why not someone who doesn't really fit the current roster like Burger, Cespedes, or even Sheets?

[Tnetennba]

32 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

Agreed. I'll just add that ideally any addition at 2B is left-handed, or at least a switch hitter who can hold his own against RHP. Realistically, any combination of Romy/Sosa/Leury probably puts up about a .600 OPS against RHP. It's shouldn't be that tough to find a left-handed backup infielder who could put up a .700-.750 OPS against RHP in a platoon role, and that would take a lot of pressure off the rookies and help prevent the position from being a black hole offensively.

The Sox shouldn't have to trade their top prospects, but why not someone who doesn't really fit the current roster like Burger, Cespedes, or even Sheets?

Burger, Cespedes, & Sheets have next to no trade value.  Those three get you nothing in trade. 

Edited January 4, 2023 by Tnetennba

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Burger, Cespedes, & Sheets have next to no trade value.  Those three get you nothing in trade. 

And all three actually probably play a role on the 2023 White Sox.  Burger and Sheets roles could be significant, as we sit right now, Cespedes, Billy Hamilton and Victor Reyes are in competion for the 26th man.  All would need to be added to the 40 man, but Cespedes would be the only optionable one.  Which frankly might give him a leg up for OD if someone like Duvall isn't signed, because you basically know you'd be losing Hamilton/Reyes a couple weeks into the season via DFA once Colas arrives. 

[ChiSoxTrojan]

11 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Burger, Cespedes, & Sheets have next to no trade value.  Those three get you nothing in trade. 

Sheets has shown he is a useful LH power bat off the bench. I would think that would have some value to a contender. How about Sheets for Biggio? He could platoon with Kirk at DH and back up Vlad. Currently they have Biggio for that role and Sheets would likely out-hit him.

[Tnetennba]

7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

And all three actually probably play a role on the 2023 White Sox.  Burger and Sheets roles could be significant, as we sit right now, Cespedes, Billy Hamilton and Victor Reyes are in competion for the 26th man.  All would need to be added to the 40 man, but Cespedes would be the only optionable one.  Which frankly might give him a leg up for OD if someone like Duvall isn't signed, because you basically know you'd be losing Hamilton/Reyes a couple weeks into the season via DFA once Colas arrives. 

Burger and Sheets playing significant roles on the 2023 Sox is a sad statement about the lack of depth in the upper minors.  But this org never cares about that. 

[Tnetennba]

1 minute ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

Sheets has shown he is a useful LH power bat off the bench. I would think that would have some value to a contender. How about Sheets for Biggio? He could platoon with Kirk at DH and back up Vlad. Currently they have Biggio for that role and Sheets would likely out-hit him.

I think the Jays would hang up the phone.  Biggio isn’t great but he’s more useful than a bad backup 1B.  

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Tnetennba said:

Burger and Sheets playing significant roles on the 2023 Sox is a sad statement about the lack of depth in the upper minors.  But this org never cares about that. 

Sheets has a career 118 wRC+ against RHP.  He's an awful defender anywhere you put him, but on a team with as many injury concerns as the Sox have and a clear lack of left handed thump, I find him to be quite useful to have around until he's out of options.