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Would TLR be the 2023 White Sox manager if healthy?


35thstreetswarm

Would TLR be the 2023 White Sox manager if healthy?  

61 members have voted

  1. 1. Would TLR be the 2023 White Sox manager if he had not experienced health problems in 2022?

    • Yes -- the organization only moved on from TLR because of prohibitive health issues, and he would be the current skipper if healthy.
      30
    • No -- the health issues really were prohibitive, but the organization would have moved on after the 2022 season based on performance even if TLR was fully healthy.
      8
    • No -- and the health issues were deliberately oversold as a face-saving excuse to move on from TLR.
      23


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I'm genuinely curious what folks think went down with the decision to move on from TLR, and whether posters really think TLR would be at the helm in 2023 if fully healthy. I tried to capture the three scenarios I think are most likely, but feel free to elaborate if you think something went down that was different from what the questions describe.

Edited by 35thstreetswarm
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Interesting poll, but I struggle with the "fully healthy" thing. What does a fully healthy TLR even look like? I don't think he was necessarily healthy when he took the job, but well enough to deal with the stress and travel of the job. Until he wasn't. Sort of a ticking time bomb thing. I feel like it all just finally caught up to him to the point where there's really no coming back from it.

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I think he would have finished out his contract if healthy.  The White Sox had every opportunity to move on from LaRussa when Maddon and Girardi were fired....there were plenty of local and national baseball people saying it was time to move on.  Since they didn't fire him then, I have no reason to think they wouldn't have said "2022 was due to injuries, Tony will be back for the 23 Season."

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54 minutes ago, hi8is said:

One of the few occasions I can say I’m thankful for alcoholism. ?

I really, really think the truth is imbedded in this statement more than we will know for a while.  I don't think it is as much "health" as a concept versus him not being able to exist in a healthy state in this job.  Read into that what you will.

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2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I really, really think the truth is imbedded in this statement more than we will know for a while.  I don't think it is as much "health" as a concept versus him not being able to exist in a healthy state in this job.  Read into that what you will.

My buddy saw TLR in a Bulls box last season and said he was s%*# faced (they both were to be fair). Maybe it was a one off, but I'm assuming he still has a drinking problem. 

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As someone that lived with an alcoholic I would never make that speculation without first hand knowledge. I've also known social drinkers who have been picked up for DUI. So I'm not going to blame that. 

Occam's Razor, the team was underperforming and clearly he wasn't effective. They used a minor or phantom health issue to remove him. 

JR is loyal and smart. Kenny has been with him a long time. With loyalties split he did the smart thing. 

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2 minutes ago, Texsox said:

As someone that lived with an alcoholic I would never make that speculation without first hand knowledge. I've also known social drinkers who have been picked up for DUI. So I'm not going to blame that. 

Occam's Razor, the team was underperforming and clearly he wasn't effective. They used a minor or phantom health issue to remove him. 

JR is loyal and smart. Kenny has been with him a long time. With loyalties split he did the smart thing. 

With the circumstances around his departure, there is WAY more to the story than is being told.  What we know adds up very cleanly to something bigger than we know.

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3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

With the circumstances around his departure, there is WAY more to the story than is being told.  What we know adds up very cleanly to something bigger than we know.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least. It is surprising that no player, even those that left, have hinted at bigger issues. 

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1 minute ago, Texsox said:

I wouldn't be surprised in the least. It is surprising that no player, even those that left, have hinted at bigger issues. 

And unfortunately it is a complete lack of transparency and honest that leave people with educated guesses and speculation.  Of course local media could ask a hard question, but that won't happen.

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I can honestly say that I do not want to know.  The lack of transparency makes me fear that he would have been back, which says all sorts of dumb things about the org.  I would be genuinely surprised that he would go willingly if not for health reasons, but I don't know.  I spend zero energy thinking what if though, I am simply relieved that he is gone and the nightmare of his tenure is over.  

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I read the lack of transparency differently -- to me it smacks of a desire to maximize plausible deniability of every scenario while avoiding outright lying to the public about what really happened.  If it was a straightforward physiological/medical issue ("TLR's known heart condition got worse, his doctor says it's not safe for him to continue coaching, we're all very sad about it but our hands are tied") why not say that?  It seems a hell of a lot more face-saving for everybody involved than the current opaque explanation, which leaves room for all sorts of speculation and conspiracy theories.  That seems like a state of affairs you'd tolerate only if the alternative (telling the truth) is worse.

I personally think it was a mix of alcoholism (the "second health issue"), recognition of toxic team chemistry, and poor team performance (which was explicitly included in TLR's statement in order to make it plausibly truthful) all coming to a head, and the "I have a pacemaker" thing was thrown in as cover to make it all sound more straightforwardly medical.  Whatever happened, I think it was more complicated than the org let on and that the FO finally came to consensus that he couldn't continue as manager.

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

And unfortunately it is a complete lack of transparency and honest that leave people with educated guesses and speculation.  Of course local media could ask a hard question, but that won't happen.

True.

I'm really with @Kyyle23 on this one. I just don't care. He's finally gone, I can't wait until we can forget. 

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2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

It is nice to move on.

Better to never have been in that position in the first place. But when we rehire Grifol, the HoF manager from LA in 2049 we'll know we haven't learned that lesson. 

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Reinsdorf will continue trolling  the CWS fanbase for the rest of his tenure.

TLR may not be physically present in the dugout but he will be the  Reinsdorf whisperer a la John Paxson.

To have TLR scheduled to show up at Spring Training is such an affront to the new manager. But Grifol is resume-building so he probably doesn't  give a damn.

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