The 2nd base answer is in Miami

[RibbieRubarb]

On 1/10/2023 at 11:35 PM, 35thstreetswarm said:

FYI, it’s Chas Jizzhome.

This is FOREVER his name now.

[GreenSox]

13 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Any time we talk about doing anything it's always the FO sucks. Do you trust them to rebuild since they screwed up the 1st one? Do you trust them to trade for veterans . No. Do you trust them to trade the small amount of prospects we have  ? Umm no . That's why we are playing GM. But you can't give up on 2023, the money's committed in it's limited way.  The Sox seem pretty stuck unless they can find a taker for Grandal or Moncada. Without Liam it might be over before it's begun

They did use FA for the short term but they shot their wad on Benintendi and Clevinger.

I don't see a way out for them to fill remaining holes. FA's cost money and guys in trade have salaries not likely to be offset by anyone we give up.

Right now it's Sosa, Romy, Marisnick . Things got ugly for the Sox before the season even started . With Miami wanting hitting for Pablo Lopez I see almost no scenario that entices the Marlins to part with Chisholm.

Right now the Sox are trying to create depth through NRI guys hoping that some stick around in AAA while others may walk after a certain amount of time.

 

The only hole I see is at 4th outfielder (I think it's really important to give Robert and Beni some rest, have a good bench bat, and also some Colas backup).   Now they may not be good enough at other positions to win the division, but that's nothing they can fix at this point.

I have no problem with the 2 players they signed; makes a lot more sense than what they did last year (which, of course, may have been TLR influenced).

I never said that I wanted to rebuild. I don't want to rebuild.   I also don't believe in windows and I don't see the team falling off the cliff after this year.

Ideal long-game/short game is keeping the team good today, while making moves for the future.  Long game: if the team is out of it in July, move some 1/2 year players they are going to lose anyway; if the reports that they were shopping Hendriks were true, that was also good long game/short game.  
Yes, to me, this FO long-game moves  have been largely good, and its short game moves have been largely bad. Its best moves have been moves that helped both long and short (Quentin, Eaton).  I'm sorry, but that's the way I see it.

I also think ripping out the farm system just to get someone else's young 2B or, even worse, some average veteran, for a 1 or 2 win upgrade is really bad short-game.

Edited January 12, 2023 by GreenSox

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

25 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

The only hole I see is at 4th outfielder (I think it's really important to give Robert and Beni some rest, have a good bench bat, and also some Colas backup).   Now they may not be good enough at other positions to win the division, but that's nothing they can fix at this point.

I have no problem with the 2 players they signed; makes a lot more sense than what they did last year (which, of course, may have been TLR influenced).

I never said that I wanted to rebuild. I don't want to rebuild.   I also don't believe in windows and I don't see the team falling off the cliff after this year.

Ideal long-game/short game is keeping the team good today, while making moves for the future.  Long game: if the team is out of it in July, move some 1/2 year players they are going to lose anyway; if the reports that they were shopping Hendriks were true, that was also good long game/short game.  
Yes, to me, this FO long-game moves  have been largely good, and its short game moves have been largely bad. Its best moves have been moves that helped both long and short (Quentin, Eaton).  I'm sorry, but that's the way I see it.

I also think ripping out the farm system just to get someone else's young 2B or, even worse, some average veteran, for a 1 or 2 win upgrade is really bad short-game.

Not sure what long game moves you are talking about. Those only occurred during the rebuild. The Sox have pretty much always in Reinsdorf's ownership played the short game . You always have to play the long game but that includes getting better in the IFA market and drafting and developing better . When you have more depth because of that, it makes you better at the short game filling holes internally. If the Sox long game was actually good as you suggest you would think they'd be in contention a lot more in a crappy division than they have been.

 

[Snopek]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

I never said that I wanted to rebuild. I don't want to rebuild.   I also don't believe in windows and I don't see the team falling off the cliff after this year.

If you operate the way the Sox do, windows are a real thing. You don't spend on premium players and you don't draft or develop talent especially well, you're not consistently fielding a competitive team year in and year out.

[Tnetennba]

14 minutes ago, Snopek said:

If you operate the way the Sox do, windows are a real thing. You don't spend on premium players and you don't draft or develop talent especially well, you're not consistently fielding a competitive team year in and year out.

For all the the talk of sustained success at the start of the rebuild, they’ve don’t little to back that up.  Unless they sell off parts for prospect hauls again for another reset, there is little in the minors to build with after the current roster hits FA and or prices out of the Sox range.  There is definitely a window, and a ticking clock for that matter. 

[Snopek]

16 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

For all the the talk of sustained success at the start of the rebuild, they’ve don’t little to back that up.  Unless they sell off parts for prospect hauls again for another reset, there is little in the minors to build with after the current roster hits FA and or prices out of the Sox range.  There is definitely a window, and a ticking clock for that matter. 

I suppose I was too naïve at that time to realize that what the sustained success thing actually meant was "if everything breaks our way, we will be not completely irrelevant for several years in a row."

[Lip Man 1]

Remember Hahn arrogantly talking about "multiple championships" and "talk to me after the parade". LOL

[Tnetennba]

53 minutes ago, Snopek said:

I suppose I was too naïve at that time to realize that what the sustained success thing actually meant was "if everything breaks our way, we will be not completely irrelevant for several years in a row."

Yeah, we all took a barebones rebuild as a sign they were changing how they operated.  How naive we were. 

[GreenSox]

6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 If the Sox long game was actually good as you suggest you would think they'd be in contention a lot more in a crappy division than they have been.

 

The Sox' long game, such as it is, has produced the core of every playoff team the Sox have had in the modern era including, hopefully, this one in 2023.  The short game, which they absolutely have pursued (usually through inane trades) has produced zilch (other than a few individual players), and has ruined cores that were in the process of being built.

Right now, as long as one of these young guys can handle 2B defensively, we're fine.  Again, I didn't see the Astros freaking out about having to play Jeremy Pena (who was not a blue-chip prospect).  Heck, they had 2 "holes" on their team.   

We've got some good pitching prospects coming up, drafted a slew of college pitching last year...we also have several MI prospects.  Sounds like a budding core to me.  Heck we may be like the Stros in a couple of years (and that's how they won it - pitching).

The Sox amateur scouting and development over the years is worthy of critique; but it has been far more successful than the pro scouting and FO tradesmanship, which has largely been an abomination.  

Edited January 12, 2023 by GreenSox

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

For all the the talk of sustained success at the start of the rebuild, they’ve don’t little to back that up.  Unless they sell off parts for prospect hauls again for another reset, there is little in the minors to build with after the current roster hits FA and or prices out of the Sox range.  There is definitely a window, and a ticking clock for that matter. 

It's always necessary for teams that cry poor at inopportune times to sell off a piece every now and then. You can't let players walk for nothing even in the middle of windows. It's just too hard for teams to build through the draft. It's a little easier to scout players already into their pro careers than amateurs.

Players have a finite shelf life and for fans letting go of them is hard. It just seemed so obvious that the Sox might have to trade Hendriks to gain some traction in other areas.. One of their few strengths may have been RP although that is certainly an area that is difficult to gauge.

Fan reaction here seemed around 50/50. Many didn't want to trade Hendriks even though Lopez appeared as ready to handle the closer role as anyone could be. Now we will find out.