bmags Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Texsox said: People complain how bad Leury's contact is. It should be the minimum. I'm complaining about any player who signs a worst deal. mmmk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 16 hours ago, Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm said: This is a good signing. Surprised he signed a NRI. Makes you realize how FUCKING ASSININE the Leury contract is. It wasn't the price per year that was necessarily asinine, it was the duration. He was coming off years of okay WAR. And assuming $6-8mm per WAR? It wasn't the dumbest signing, but duration against age was. 2017 1.1WAR 2018 0.8 WAR 2019 1.3 WAR 2020 0.8 WAR 2021 2.2 WAR Contract signed: 2022 (0.9) WAR 6.2 WAR over 5 years = 1.24 WAR. Discount a bit for age and diminishing role on a better roster and you maybe come up with 0.75WAR per year. Which does equal approximately that $5-7mm contract annually. The issue again was duration. It was a poor contract based on duration, but also especially if Hahn was given the directive that he has ___ amount of money to build a team. Paying nearly $6mm annually for a utility player is a luxury & is not for a team with budgetary concerns. I'm not a Leury apologist and do think he likely returns to that 0.5 - 1 WAR value in 2023, but definitely a below average contract. He's turned into the defacto poster boy for our problems which i think is a bit unfair. End of the day he's returned 4WAR for $16mm in his time with the Sox. The problem isn't Leury ... it's either the budget or that TLR gave him too big of a role & at poor places in the order. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, he gone. said: It wasn't the price per year that was necessarily asinine, it was the duration. He was coming off years of okay WAR. And assuming $6-8mm per WAR? It wasn't the dumbest signing, but duration against age was. 2017 1.1WAR 2018 0.8 WAR 2019 1.3 WAR 2020 0.8 WAR 2021 2.2 WAR Contract signed: 2022 (0.9) WAR 6.2 WAR over 5 years = 1.24 WAR. Discount a bit for age and diminishing role on a better roster and you maybe come up with 0.75WAR per year. Which does equal approximately that $5-7mm contract annually. The issue again was duration. It was a poor contract based on duration, but also especially if Hahn was given the directive that he has ___ amount of money to build a team. Paying nearly $6mm annually for a utility player is a luxury & is not for a team with budgetary concerns. I'm not a Leury apologist and do think he likely returns to that 0.5 - 1 WAR value in 2023, but definitely a below average contract. He's turned into the defacto poster boy for our problems which i think is a bit unfair. End of the day he's returned 4WAR for $16mm in his time with the Sox. The problem isn't Leury ... it's either the budget or that TLR gave him too big of a role & at poor places in the order. I've been making this point continuously on here all offseason. I don't know why I find myself defending Leury - I actually don't like him at all - but folks are acting like his $5.5M AAV (literally like 2.5% of the payroll) actually meaningfully changes things. If Leury has an average season for him in 2023 and 2024, he quite literally will be worth his contract. Furthermore, the Sox are paying Leury regardless. Cutting him solves nothing, especially when there aren't any better options in the org. Cutting him and then signing another utility player (say Jonathan Villar) just makes the dollar problem worse, and you probably aren't getting a better player. If Leury continues his awful play into 2023 - then ya, give him the Keuchel treatment. But there is no good reason to cut him right now. It was an awful deal, likely led by TLR. But it is what it is, and its not really the difference between anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 I wouldn't be surprised if Sox re-start jose Rodriguez in AA again. He was super hot in late Jul-Aug, but had no power prior. If he shows it again, then great. But clearly they don't expect him to be able to spell time for sox the first few months, whereas Alberto could. You then have Burger-Alberto-Sosa in AAA and Romy is either up with the club or can continue to work on his versatility in OF/IF play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Is there anyone out there who fits the mold of Alberto but hits from the left side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 I think I've talked myself into signing Rougned Odor (if he has to settle for a minor league deal) for the 2B competition in Spring Training. Just looked him up and was shocked to see his age. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Is there anyone out there who fits the mold of Alberto but hits from the left side? From a free agency perspective, does a Rougned Odor or Yolmer Sanchez interest you? Its rough out there. Honestly, Harrison probably is the best option. I'd rather just roll with the kids, or try to get someone like Wendle from MIA. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: I think I've talked myself into signing Rougned Odor (if he has to settle for a minor league deal) for the 2B competition in Spring Training. Just looked him up and was shocked to see his age. Lol, jinx. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: From a free agency perspective, does a Rougned Odor or Yolmer Sanchez interest you? Its rough out there. Honestly, Harrison probably is the best option. I'd rather just roll with the kids, or try to get someone like Wendle from MIA. I just hate that our 2B mix is all guys who all hit from the right side and a switch-hitter who hits better right-handed. It is what it is I guess. Edited January 12, 2023 by Bob Sacamano 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 27 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: I just hate that our 2B mix is all guys who all hit from the right side and a switch-hitter who hits better right-handed. It is what it is I guess. second base wasn't really the place we were gonna help with our handedness issue. Benintendi, Colas need to join a resurgent Grandal/Moncada to really make a dent. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, bmags said: second base wasn't really the place we were gonna help with our handedness issue. Benintendi, Colas need to join a resurgent Grandal/Moncada to really make a dent. True, but doesn't hurt to keep adding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 hour ago, he gone. said: It wasn't the price per year that was necessarily asinine, it was the duration. He was coming off years of okay WAR. And assuming $6-8mm per WAR? It wasn't the dumbest signing, but duration against age was. 2017 1.1WAR 2018 0.8 WAR 2019 1.3 WAR 2020 0.8 WAR 2021 2.2 WAR Contract signed: 2022 (0.9) WAR 6.2 WAR over 5 years = 1.24 WAR. Discount a bit for age and diminishing role on a better roster and you maybe come up with 0.75WAR per year. Which does equal approximately that $5-7mm contract annually. The issue again was duration. It was a poor contract based on duration, but also especially if Hahn was given the directive that he has ___ amount of money to build a team. Paying nearly $6mm annually for a utility player is a luxury & is not for a team with budgetary concerns. I'm not a Leury apologist and do think he likely returns to that 0.5 - 1 WAR value in 2023, but definitely a below average contract. He's turned into the defacto poster boy for our problems which i think is a bit unfair. End of the day he's returned 4WAR for $16mm in his time with the Sox. The problem isn't Leury ... it's either the budget or that TLR gave him too big of a role & at poor places in the order. . fWar has him 2.9 fWar in his whole time with the Sox . You're using bWar from the years where he had more PA's to accumulate his best War years than in 2022. 2017, 326 PA ,1 fWar ; 2019, 618 PA, 1.7 fWar ; 2021, 474 PA, 1.8 fWar. One could draw the conclusion that Leury has usually been better the more he's been used instead of that he was overused by TLR thus leading to his bad year in 2022. Perhaps he was hurt a lot. Leury is the poster boy because in his short time with the Sox TLR wielded way too much influence and his star guys like Leury and Kelly sucked the most. The Sox spent money on Leury and Kelly, put 1st basemen in the OF and ignored our LH hitter needs for 2 years. There's just a whole lot that went bad last year . We have quite a few poster boys . People around here were suggesting Giolito would be non tendered, that TA screwed up a good thing and the Moncada contract is a huge albatross .2019 is so long ago for him that people now just hope he can repeat 2021 with above average defense and a .375 OBP. Very few expect Yoan ever to slug .500 again . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Wendel continues to make a ton of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxTrojan Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, bmags said: second base wasn't really the place we were gonna help with our handedness issue. Benintendi, Colas need to join a resurgent Grandal/Moncada to really make a dent. It's true that there aren't many impact LH bats at 2B across the league (Jazz being one of the few exceptions), but when the incumbents are all mediocre options or questions marks (rookies) that's exactly when it makes sense to put together a platoon to maximize production. It would also take some pressure off of Romy/Sosa as they get acclimated to MLB. I think it's highly unlikely that the Sox will be able to put together a .650 OPS against RHP out of Romy/Leury/Sosa, but if you can bring in a lefty who can do better than that, it's an easy (cheap) way to boost production and prevent 2B from being a black hole in 2/3 of the games. Edited January 12, 2023 by ChiSoxTrojan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxTrojan Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, ChiSoxTrojan said: It's true that there aren't many impact LH bats at 2B across the league (Jazz being one of the few exceptions), but when the incumbents are all mediocre options or questions marks (rookies) that's exactly when it makes sense to put together a platoon to maximize production. It would also take some pressure off of Romy/Sosa as they get acclimated to MLB. I think it's highly unlikely that the Sox will be able to put together a .650 OPS against RHP out of Romy/Leury/Sosa, but if you can bring in a lefty who can do better than that, it's an easy (cheap) way to boost production and prevent 2B from being a black hole in 2/3 of the games. Edited January 12, 2023 by ChiSoxTrojan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 I have no doubt the Sox will stockpile a bunch of types like Yolmer, Alberto, Sosa, Romy, that guy from the Pirates, etc. etc. They'll give whoever has the best spring training the job and when they don't hit over the first 3 weeks then make a change. The next guy will have 3 weeks and then roll to the next and next and next. Ultimately never giving the time for them to settle in like a harrison did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoeLessRob Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 The fuse is lit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 When is the Hanser Alberto presser? Ben Nintendo took forever to sign like maybe he would rather not. Word gets around the locker rooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 8 hours ago, Kalapse said: It's impossible to keep up with your positions considering you're borderline anti-free agency. (possibly not even borderline) I'm not certain where you got any anti free agency from me other than it will hurt the Sox. I'm fine with abolishing the draft and having everyone be free agents from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 2 hours ago, he gone. said: I have no doubt the Sox will stockpile a bunch of types like Yolmer, Alberto, Sosa, Romy, that guy from the Pirates, etc. etc. They'll give whoever has the best spring training the job and when they don't hit over the first 3 weeks then make a change. The next guy will have 3 weeks and then roll to the next and next and next. Ultimately never giving the time for them to settle in like a harrison did. I'd rather they give other guys chances than keep trying what isn't working like they did with Harrison. They should have pulled the plug on that in like May. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 15 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: I'd rather they give other guys chances than keep trying what isn't working like they did with Harrison. They should have pulled the plug on that in like May. yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4uckOffCommieScum Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 On 1/12/2023 at 11:34 AM, Bob Sacamano said: Is there anyone out there who fits the mold of Alberto but hits from the left side? Harold Castro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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