Mike Clevinger under investigation for domestic violence

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

Not sure what you mean. The question being discussed was whether Clevinger was a good signing on purely baseball merits. Being in the bottom twenty percentile in numerous key metrics would generally be considered a bad sign particularly when it comes after a second tjs

Now do Cueto, if you're concerned about statcast metrics, since that is the guy you're lobbying for instead.

Like I said, Clevinger was actually a really useful SP for most of last season.  As was Cueto!  Clevinger wore out towards the end, which makes sense all things considered. Putting aside the character and off-field issues that have arisen, I have no problem betting on the guy that is half a decade younger. 

[The Grinder]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

- Omar Vizquel abuse of a child while manager of sox
  - Other coach involved kept on and let go years later
- International Scouting Director federally charged for fraud
- Manager with DUI made public 2 weeks after hire
- Clevinger debacle
- Keeping dbo for no reason

Is there another team close with this kind of 20 year run of embarrassments. Not even including stuff like LaRoche, which to me is just some cworkplace embarrassment, this is consistent negligence of criminal behavior.

Houston, STL, ATL, SD have had an incident, but sox have been so so bad.

A little off the point but dont forget the 2002 incident where the father/son assclowns attacked the elderly KC coach. We have a bit of an image problem

[bmags]

7 minutes ago, The Grinder said:

A little off the point but dont forget the 2002 incident where the father/son assclowns attacked the elderly KC coach. We have a bit of an image problem

oh man yeah. Can't blame front office for that really, but yeah, adds to the embarrassment. Also Guaranteed Rate sponsorship was such a gut punch with the arrow pointing down stuff lol.

[Eminor3rd]

Man, every time I come back and see this thread title, it makes me angrier. Both for the filthy, shithead nature of the player’s actions, and for the sorry state of the team.

This Clevinger incident is probably not their fault, but when you run such a joke ass franchise you realize that this type of gut punch exposes the lack of preparation and professionalism evident in every aspect of the org.

You can’t trust that they did their due diligence in the first place.

You see the lack of depth and roster prep exposed before training camp even begins.

You can’t trust they’ll do what it takes to fill the roster hole.

Even if they do fill the hole, you can’t trust they’ll target you he right type of player.

You realize how needlessly risky the process of rushing out and “beating the other teams to the market” is on these interesting but flawed project-types, and how much it sucks that the only reason to take those risks is to try to avoid paying market value on middling players. 

Hell, you can’t even trust they’ll do the right thing with regards to dealing with Clevinger.

About the only thing you CAN trust is that whatever lessons they learn from this ordeal will probably be the wrong ones. Well, and I guess you can also trust that the media message we get will be akin to shrugging and feeling sorry for themselves for “circumstances beyond their control” yet again, never stopping to wonder if there might be a reason that those circumstances seem to happen so much more often to the White Sox than everyone else.

This feels like a low point that I’m going to remember for a long time. 

[shago]

The buck doesn't stop with anyone in this organization of schmucks, least of all Rick Hahn. Absolutely pathetic at this point.

[Snopek]

6 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

This feels like a low point that I’m going to remember for a long time. 

In the spirit of your excellent post, you can’t even trust that this is the low point.

[The Grinder]

Makes me wonder about their next blunder. It cant be too far away

[ron883]

On 1/24/2023 at 1:46 PM, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Yeah no s%*#.  He's a bad guy.

That's funny considering you posted in the Clevinger signing thread plenty, but never once alluded to how he has a bad person. 

Does anybody take this fraudulent insider's opinion seriously anymore? He's no more reliable than the foodies. 

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Snopek said:

In the spirit of your excellent post, you can’t even trust that this is the low point.

You can almost hear Jerry accepting the challenge.

[Texsox]

 

Did we forget the 4th forfeit in MLB history? 

[Nc bobblehead]

On 1/24/2023 at 3:47 PM, Polar Bear said:

This post shows exactly how little you know about this topic.  Victims should be put on trial in regard to the facts and the allegations (not they themselves).  In the same way witnesses to murders are.  You aren't throwing out an allegation you are ruining a man's life.  The burden of proof is on the accuser for a reason in the court of law and should be in the court of public opinion as well.  If true then he will get what he deserves but there are numerous incidents of false allegations related to famous people and not famous people.  It happens a s%*# ton more than people want to believe 

Some of what you said has become a sad truth. There have been so many cases of false accusations and false denials that it is getting harder to give blind trust to either side even when you really want to. 

As a Bills fan I just watched this same thing play out with a rookie who was cut and police later decided not to charge him. Most everyone can agree if he did these things there is a long list of things he deserves. With that said the chance of him being able to change public opinion is so small even if truly innocent, the Sox really have no choice but eventually cut him.

All any of us can really do is hope that the truth comes out in a court of law and whichever party is the victim, they find some peace as there is nothing that will ever be able to truly make it ok. 

[CentralChamps21]

2 minutes ago, Texsox said:

 

Did we forget the 4th forfeit in MLB history? 

Technically, the game where TLR batted Leury 3rd was also a forfeit.

[JoeC]

In the end, nobody comes out of this a winner. The accuser will surely be harassed for making these accusations, regardless of whether she is ultimately proven right (note: I'm inclined to believe accusers in these cases). Clevinger will forever have this held over him even if the accusations end up being false.

That said, I believe MLB actually has a framework in place to make sure due diligence is completed before "firing" a player in cases like this. The only way to redeem his image is IF Clevinger is innocent + IF MLB finds him innocent + IF MLB is transparent with its findings and process.

Do I think he's guilty? Yes. Do I think the Sox should be done with him? Fork yes. Do I want the process to play out before giving him the boot? Yes.

Of course, if the MLB process is actually a joke, then I will change my mind about this all....

[Harold's Leg Lift]

2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

How differently would things be if Rick Hahn were fired and Chris Getz took over with KW staying in his current capacity? 

Well that's a fun hypothetical but unfortunately I don't know what would be different other than Chris Getz actually knowing what a good baseball player looks like and boy wouldn't that be a  welcomed change.  What I do know is we have 11 years of hard painful evidence that Rick Hahn sucks at his job and real change in the FO is long overdue. 

[Texsox]

I'm not certain why being found guilty or even charged is the standard in some people's minds. Plenty of people everyday lose their jobs and aren't charged with a crime. Now with the nature of baseball contracts at some point a few lawyers may have to get together and decide on remuneration. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Texsox
Clarity. Thank you Balta

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I'm not certain why being found guilty or even charged is the standard. Plenty of people everyday lose their jobs and aren't charged with a crime. Now with the nature of baseball contracts at some point a few lawyers may have to get together and decide on remuneration. 

It can be for some people but for baseball it isn't. Baseball's domestic violence agreement is very clear about this that people can be suspended regardless of whether or not there is anyone charged or convicted of a crime. 

[Texsox]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

It can be for some people but for baseball it isn't. Baseball's domestic violence agreement is very clear about this that people can be suspended regardless of whether or not there is anyone charged or convicted of a crime. 

Isn't that what I said? You don't have to be charged, and that reflects real life? Oops, I just reread my post. 

[Heads22]

I 100% do not want Clevinger cut, as it would guarantee him his money from how I understand it. If the process plays out, maybe he doesn't get part of it. I don't want to see him walk away from this (if true, obviously) with an eight figure pay day.

[Tnetennba]

3 minutes ago, Heads22 said:

I 100% do not want Clevinger cut, as it would guarantee him his money from how I understand it. If the process plays out, maybe he doesn't get part of it. I don't want to see him walk away from this (if true, obviously) with an eight figure pay day.

Suspended w/o pay until released and to never put on a Sox uniform. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

40 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Well that's a fun hypothetical but unfortunately I don't know what would be different other than Chris Getz actually knowing what a good baseball player looks like and boy wouldn't that be a  welcomed change.  What I do know is we have 11 years of hard painful evidence that Rick Hahn sucks at his job and real change in the FO is long overdue. 

as long as Ken Williams is at the top, I just don’t believe anything really changes and I highly doubt Jerry Reinsdorf goes outside the organization for a hire. It’s just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic 

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Suspended w/o pay until released and to never put on a Sox uniform. 

I don’t know what the difference is in some of these cases, but recently many of the domestic violence suspensions look to have been about half the season. Carlos Martinez received a half season suspension last fall. 

Sam Dyson received a full year in 2021 and then of course there’s Bauer. Without knowing the circumstances, half a season seems to be the most likely number.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_suspended_for_domestic_violence

[caulfield12]

At least Rick Hahn could write a pretty comprehensive book about how to completely waste amounts of between $4-12 million and never lose his job...

Otoh, guys like Rodon, Cueto, McCann, Andrus have (occasionally) worked from the bargain bin.

[FloydBannister1983]

5 hours ago, The Grinder said:

A little off the point but dont forget the 2002 incident where the father/son assclowns attacked the elderly KC coach. We have a bit of an image problem

But the Cubs having a guy charge Randy Myers or their drunken fans starting a fight with the Dodgers bullpen has been memory-holed.

[Lip Man 1]

7 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

But the Cubs having a guy charge Randy Myers or their drunken fans starting a fight with the Dodgers bullpen has been memory-holed.

From my story "Sox and the media": 

September 28, 1995 – Cub relief pitcher Randy Myers was attacked on the mound by 27 year old John Murray after giving up a home run to a member of the Astros. Myers used his kung fu training to handle the attacker.

May 16, 2000 – Dodger catcher Chad Kreuter, sitting in the bullpen in right field, had his head slapped and his hat stolen by a fan that ran up into the stands. Kreuter and some of his teammates charged into the stands and an ugly fight ensued. Arrests and suspensions followed.

June 26, 2007 – After giving up a three run home run to the Rockies, Cub relief pitcher Bob Howry saw a fan run out of the stands and charge towards him. The fan, Brent Kowalkoski, was tackled right before he stepped on the mound area.

Former Cub players LaTroy Hawkins, Milton Bradley and Jacques Jones accused Wrigley fans of racial insults and throwing items at them.

On at least two occasions Cub games had to be stopped and security and cleanup crews had to go on to the field to pick up numerous amounts of garbage thrown from out of the bleachers.

And there was the terrible situation where a fan was murdered near Wrigley Field soon after a Cub game but newspaper accounts afterwards never mentioned ‘Wrigleyville’ the term used by all for the area. Instead a more obscure name was used to describe the neighborhood where the incident took place.

By contrast when the Sox had the two incidents take place the name of their stadium and the neighborhood, Bridgeport, was prominently mentioned and mentioned for days afterwards including when the Ligue’s and Dybas had their legal day in court.

Mentioning Dybas also brought up another point which left many, even non-conspiratorial individuals wondering what may have been going on. The following day after the incident both Dybas’ girlfriend, Kelly Sherwood and his roommate, said on various Chicago radio stations that they were shocked that Dybas was even at a Sox game. Both said he was a dedicated Cub fan who had been drinking heavily at the afternoon Cub game before deciding to go to the Sox game that night.

[Quin]

5 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

Man, every time I come back and see this thread title, it makes me angrier. Both for the filthy, shithead nature of the player’s actions, and for the sorry state of the team.

This Clevinger incident is probably not their fault, but when you run such a joke ass franchise you realize that this type of gut punch exposes the lack of preparation and professionalism evident in every aspect of the org.

You can’t trust that they did their due diligence in the first place.

You see the lack of depth and roster prep exposed before training camp even begins.

You can’t trust they’ll do what it takes to fill the roster hole.

Even if they do fill the hole, you can’t trust they’ll target you he right type of player.

You realize how needlessly risky the process of rushing out and “beating the other teams to the market” is on these interesting but flawed project-types, and how much it sucks that the only reason to take those risks is to try to avoid paying market value on middling players. 

Hell, you can’t even trust they’ll do the right thing with regards to dealing with Clevinger.

About the only thing you CAN trust is that whatever lessons they learn from this ordeal will probably be the wrong ones. Well, and I guess you can also trust that the media message we get will be akin to shrugging and feeling sorry for themselves for “circumstances beyond their control” yet again, never stopping to wonder if there might be a reason that those circumstances seem to happen so much more often to the White Sox than everyone else.

This feels like a low point that I’m going to remember for a long time. 

Signing free agent starting pitchers early in free agency is a mistake!