Mike Clevinger under investigation for domestic violence

[SpringfieldFan]

5 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

Sleeping around when you have a wife, or a baby mama, DOES make you a bad dude. It's fucking despicable behavior, and it shows a total lack of respect for women, and your children. Cheating on a significant other is one of the worst betrayals you can commit as a human being. It disgusts me to see so many of you fucking misogynists normalizing this behavior, just because these guys are professional athletes. f*** off.

Thank you! I am totally on board with this take. If this behavior is standard among professional athletes, they might as well put robots on the field because I can't respect what these guys bring to the field as human beings.

Edited January 26, 2023 by SpringfieldFan

[Highland]

Caulfield is right. The White Sox have a massive problem here and really have had it for some time now.

The team has always complained about the "fair-weather" fan who comes out only when the team is winning. But when the team alienates the most devoted of fan, what do they have left?

Politically correct press releases don't help. Lukewarm off seasons only add to the problem.

It is amazing how tone-deaf this organization is. But if people and investors are making money, I guess it is easy not to care what the public thinks. But this type of thinking is going to catch up them. What fans think will matter.

[LittleHurtCG]

6 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

Sleeping around when you have a wife, or a baby mama, DOES make you a bad dude. It's fucking despicable behavior, and it shows a total lack of respect for women, and your children. Cheating on a significant other is one of the worst betrayals you can commit as a human being. It disgusts me to see so many of you fucking misogynists normalizing this behavior, just because these guys are professional athletes. f*** off.

 

4 hours ago, JoeC said:

I read his post more as a “Clevinger may be a bad dude, but he’s no worse than the other despicable characters if philandering is your standard of ‘bad dude.’”

But yeah - otherwise I agree. That “locker room” culture is frankly the cause of some of the worst excuse for human behavior I have seen.

JoeC gets it. Clevinger is a bad and despicable dude because he allegedly beat his wife and abused his kid. No one is gloryfying professional athlethes sleeping around but it has been a reality for a long long time. It also none of our business what these guys do in the bedroom as long as it is consensual. 

Also, would you consider Tim Anderson to be a bad dude? 

[Tnetennba]

45 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

One thing I am going to mention here.  Not being charged, and even not being found guilty does not make a person innocent.  People want to talk about false reporting, but let's point out what the odds of conviction actually are when we are talking about these cases.  Almost every incident that happens in these types of categories does NOT result in a conviction.  It typically takes years of stepping up levels of violence before a conviction can happen, if ever.  We are talking about a conviction rate that is actually lower than the false reporting rate for domestic violence.

And I could not give less of a f*** about Clevinger’s reputation taking a hit from this.  Or any athlete or man in a position of power.  I’m going to side with the victims of DV and abuse 99.999999% of the time.  The conviction rate is low, but so is the rate of reporting because victims will always be dragged over the coals by systems that protect men, power, & money. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Tnetennba

[Tnetennba]

31 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think it's underrated how impactful it would be within an organization like the sox for someone to actually lose their job over poor performance on the field. Poor performance has typically meant a promotion to an assistant to the GM role/professional reinsdorf best friend OR you had to have been convicted of a crime to be removed.

That and I doubt that if you let any other person in the white sox run things it would be the same. Even in the CYA crapfest of sox FO, a Getz led team would be different. A Shirley led team would be different.

A haber-led team? Probably same.

The White Sox are the epitome of failing upward. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

This may have also been a tactic Clevinger wanted to employ because he knew this was pending.  

And in this effort to defend Hahn, you've just said "Rick Hahn got outsmarted by Clevinger". 

[Dick Allen]

33 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

And I could not give less of a f*** about Clevinger’s reputation taking a hit from this.  Or any athlete or man in a position of power.  I’m going to side with the victims of DV and abuse 99.999999% of the time.  The conviction rate is low, but so is the rate of reporting because victims will always be dragged over the coals by systems that protect men, power, & money. 

The Texas basketball coarch was recently fired for abuse. His girlfriend or fiance did recant, said it was all her fault. She provoked the poor guy, but it was too little late. Probably was going to be paid off for dropping the charges. But it didn't work. 

[southsider2k5]

19 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The Texas basketball coarch was recently fired for abuse. His girlfriend or fiance did recant, said it was all her fault. She provoked the poor guy, but it was too little late. Probably was going to be paid off for dropping the charges. But it didn't work. 

And, again, stuff like ^ this happens WAAAAAAY more often than false reporting.

[SonofaRoache]

The guy needs to be tossed away. As far as his baseball impact goes it doesn't matter because we aren't going anywhere relevant anyway. 

[Baron]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And, again, stuff like ^ this happens WAAAAAAY more often than false reporting.

I was glad too that they are still prosecuting him as well. Doesn't matter if she recanted on her statements it rose to the level of a felony and they don't need her story to move forward. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

On 1/25/2023 at 10:31 AM, Joshua Strong said:

Why not do some deep diving on the guy who's seen as a asshole and scumbag across the league?

They very likely knew he was a philandering asshole. They very likely didn't know that he might've done the things he's being accused of. 

11 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Oh Lord I just realized this.

Hahn could have paid Clevinger $12 million, but instead he had to pay him $8 million this year and turn $4 million into a buyout.

If Hahn paid him $12 million straight up, and he was suspended half the year, he’d be owed $6 million. But because of Hahn’s shenanigans, if he’s suspended half the year, he is owed $4 million, then a $4 million buyout, for $8 million.

I am not as certain on this, but I think if he’s suspended the whole year he would still be owed his buyout. If that’s right, then he would have been owed $0 if suspended the whole year and instead he’d be owed $4 million for the buyout instead of zero.

Ricky probably handed him between $2 and $4 million because he wanted to defer money to 2024. 

Good work.

They couldn't give him $12 million this year because they needed the money for Benintendi. Somehow, you wrote this entire post without mentioning Jerry Reinsdorf 

[Y2Jimmy0]

7 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

Sleeping around when you have a wife, or a baby mama, DOES make you a bad dude. It's fucking despicable behavior, and it shows a total lack of respect for women, and your children. Cheating on a significant other is one of the worst betrayals you can commit as a human being. It disgusts me to see so many of you fucking misogynists normalizing this behavior, just because these guys are professional athletes. f*** off.

What these guys do in their personal lives is none of our business and many of them do it. 

2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Nothing will change so just kick the can down the road.  This is a Jerry Reinsdorf approved post. 

They should completely clean house. They won't though. 

[Dick Allen]

The only  major league team that would have Rick Hahn as their GM is the White Sox. 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

Odds are irrelevant when talking about specific past events that either did or did not occur. Either it happened or it didn’t. doesn’t matter the odds. If actuality were determined by what is most likely, none of us would even exist in the first place.

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

Odds are irrelevant when talking about specific past events that either did or did not occur. Either it happened or it didn’t. doesn’t matter the odds. If actuality were determined by what is most likely, none of us would even exist in the first place.

I would think if it was totally false, an investigation, which has been going on since the summer, would have probably been closed by now. There's even more layers to this. It seems the more you hear, the bigger asshole this guy is. 

 

My buddy once told me the one nice thing about Albert Belle was he made no effort to try to come off as anything other than he was, a total asshole. It's the guys who are so phony that are really bothersome.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They couldn't give him $12 million this year because they needed the money for Benintendi. Somehow, you wrote this entire post without mentioning Jerry Reinsdorf 

If Rick Hahn came into Jerry Reinsdorf's office and said "I need $30 million to create a competitive team" and Jerry Reinsdorf said "The budget this year is $17 million, sorry", it's not Reinsdorf cowering out of hard decisions and instead acting like a capped out GM, it's Hahn. This should never have been a strategy regardless of the budget, and it's perfectly ironic for it to come back and cost them several million dollars and a PR nightmare. 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

I would think if it was totally false, an investigation, which has been going on since the summer, would have probably been closed by now. There's even more layers to this. It seems the more you hear, the bigger asshole this guy is. 

I wouldn't jump to conclusions on that, these investigations are notoriously slower than it seems like they should be for these professional sports leagues. I do not know why, but it's quite consistent. 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I would think if it was totally false, an investigation, which has been going on since the summer, would have probably been closed by now. There's even more layers to this. It seems the more you hear, the bigger asshole this guy is. 

 

My buddy once told me the one nice thing about Albert Belle was he made no effort to try to come off as anything other than he was, a total asshole. It's the guys who are so phony that are really bothersome.

I’m not arguing whether it is false or true. Just pointing out fallacious arguments

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

And in this effort to defend Hahn, you've just said "Rick Hahn got outsmarted by Clevinger". 

I am not defending Hahn at all. He should have lost his job this offseason. Clevinger for 1/$12M was fine without knowledge that he was a domestic and child abuser. I am just saying the perhaps Clevinger was fine with the structure because he knew that MLB was investigating him and that the buyout was getting paid regardless of suspension. Not exactly sure how that’s outsmarting anyone when it wasn’t public knowledge, but whatever.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I am not defending Hahn at all. He should have lost his job this offseason. Clevinger for 1/$12M was fine without knowledge that he was a domestic and child abuser. I am just saying the perhaps Clevinger was fine with the structure because he knew that MLB was investigating him and that the buyout was getting paid regardless of suspension. Not exactly sure how that’s outsmarting anyone when it wasn’t public knowledge, but whatever.

It wasn't fine if he was told he had only $17 million to play with, and dropping the money onto 2024 was already dumb even before it turned out here that it really backfired. And oh, Clevinger jumped at the money because he knew he was going to be suspended and happened to take advantage of Hahn's foolishness - just super embarrassing. 

[4uckOffCommieScum]

For example if you asked someone if they ever murdered anyone, 99.9% of the time it would be true when they said no. Yet murder does indeed happen. You wouldn’t say well 99.9% of the time when someone says they didn’t murder someone it’s true, therefore in this particular case, the accused said he didn’t do it, therefore it is safe to assume it is true.

[pcq]

Some guys would hire a team of lawyers, sue the complainant for slander and take it to the Supreme Court.

[ChiSox59]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

It wasn't fine if he was told he had only $17 million to play with, and dropping the money onto 2024 was already dumb even before it turned out here that it really backfired. And oh, Clevinger jumped at the money because he knew he was going to be suspended and happened to take advantage of Hahn's foolishness - just super embarrassing. 

The money wasn't really dropped into 2024 though.  The $4M buyout was either going to be paid in 2023 when they bought Clevinger out in November, or never paid because they exercised the option.  You can do all the mental gymnastics you'd like about budgeting and reallocating $s from year to year to fit your negative narrative, but when you need to find an everyday OF and a SP that needs to make 20+ starts because you have zero SP depth after your top 4 and the owner gives you a very limited amount of $ to do so, there aren't exactly a boat load of options to make that work. 

Now, much of that shitty situation was Hahn's own doing.  But its pretty obvious that earlier in the rebuild process ownership told him there would be more $ to spend that ultimately was available.  Maybe Covid had a role in that; certainly TLR driving the team into a wall was a contributing factor.  Hahn himself did more than his fair share of burning needless cash along the way, and for that, he should have lost job. Not sure that KW, Chris Getz or Jeremy Faber would have made things any different tho, and if Hahn is gone, 99.99% chance one of those 3 are running the show.   Why's that?  Jerry Reinsdorf.  

Edited January 26, 2023 by ChiSox59

[Quin]

14 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

For example if you asked someone if they ever murdered anyone, 99.9% of the time it would be true when they said no. Yet murder does indeed happen. You wouldn’t say well 99.9% of the time when someone says they didn’t murder someone it’s true, therefore in this particular case, the accused said he didn’t do it, therefore it is safe to assume it is true.

I don't know why, but I find this sentence hilarious.

"Did you murder this person?"

"No, I did not."

It turned out that Orenthal was indeed a murderer.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

The money wasn't really dropped into 2024 though.  The $4M buyout was either going to be paid in 2023 when they bought Clevinger out in November, or never paid because they exercised the option.  You can do all the mental gymnastics you'd like about budgeting and reallocating $s from year to year to fit your negative narrative, but when you need to find an everyday OF and a SP that needs to make 20+ starts because you have zero SP depth after your top 4 and the owner gives you a very limited amount of $ to do so, there aren't exactly a boat load of options to make that work. 

There was zero reason to do that stupid mutual option if they weren't casually moving it onto their 2024 budget. It won't be picked up because mutual options are almost never picked up. "Oh there was actually no reason to do this but they did it anyway and it turns out that it gave Clevinger an extra $4 million" is not a defense for him, it actually is even dumber!!!!