Kiley's Top 100 (Colson at 15, Ramos 48)

[Sleepy Harold]

No Colas, but Ramos cracks the top 50 here, Colson being at 15 caught me off guard as well.

[almagest]

It's concerning to not see Colas in these rankings, especially since he torched the minors last year. I think he might struggle with contact and pitch recognition given some of what I've heard here and read.

[southsider2k5]

It is really awesome to see Colson getting more and more love.

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 hour ago, almagest said:

It's concerning to not see Colas in these rankings, especially since he torched the minors last year. I think he might struggle with contact and pitch recognition given some of what I've heard here and read.

I don’t think it is. He’s 24 years old. Many evaluators just won’t have him ranked that highly because of it. 

[ChiSox59]

2 hours ago, almagest said:

It's concerning to not see Colas in these rankings, especially since he torched the minors last year. I think he might struggle with contact and pitch recognition given some of what I've heard here and read.

While I am not overly concerned about Colas, I do think he's going to K a whole bunch.  23% K rate in the minors, that spiked to nearly 40% in extremely SSS in the AAA would indicate as such.  

I personally would make Colas earn his way on the roster and not just hand him the spot.

Super exciting stuff on Montgomery and Ramos, though.

[GreenSox]

Nice!

"Ramos is also a solid average defender at third base who can also play a decent second base."

Just in case the need arises...

Edited February 1, 2023 by GreenSox

[Y2Jimmy0]

3 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

While I am not overly concerned about Colas, I do think he's going to K a whole bunch.  23% K rate in the minors, that spiked to nearly 40% in extremely SSS in the AAA would indicate as such.  

I personally would make Colas earn his way on the roster and not just hand him the spot.

Super exciting stuff on Montgomery and Ramos, though.

What does earning his way entail? 

[maxjusttyped]

37 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

What does earning his way entail? 

Dominating at AAA to open this season and showing his plate discipline wouldn't get exposed facing the best pitching he's ever seen in his life would be ideal to me. We've seen much better and more polished prospects than Colas struggle to hit the ground running in Chicago.

[Chicago White Sox]

There is a nice positional core developing outside of catcher:

• 1B: Vaughn
• 2B: Sosa/Popeye
• SS: Montgomery
• 3B: Ramos
• LF: Benintendi
• CF: Robert
• RF: Colas
• DH: Jimenez

Need some of the young pitchers to come through as well, but at least there is some reasons for optimism in the long-run.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

What does earning his way entail? 

Hitting well in ST and a few weeks in AAA. If he is awesome in ST, give him the job. I personally would trade 162 games for 15 games every single time, but I’d be fine with him breaking camp with the team if he earns it. But if that’s the plan, he should have been in Chicago the last 40 or so games of 22, tho. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 hour ago, maxjusttyped said:

Dominating at AAA to open this season and showing his plate discipline wouldn't get exposed facing the best pitching he's ever seen in his life would be ideal to me. We've seen much better and more polished prospects than Colas struggle to hit the ground running in Chicago.

I just think he’d still destroy AAA pitching while exposing his flaws at the same time. I believe that he’ll have the same issues 5 weeks into the season that he’d have if he broke camp with the club. 

46 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Hitting well in ST and a few weeks in AAA. If he is awesome in ST, give him the job. I personally would trade 162 games for 15 games every single time, but I’d be fine with him breaking camp with the team if he earns it. But if that’s the plan, he should have been in Chicago the last 40 or so games of 22, tho. 

I just think spring training stats are meaningless. How he preps, gets his work in, follows coaching directions is far more important in my opinion. 

[maxjusttyped]

6 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I just think he’d still destroy AAA pitching while exposing his flaws at the same time. I believe that he’ll have the same issues 5 weeks into the season that he’d have if he broke camp with the club. 

I just think spring training stats are meaningless. How he preps, gets his work in, follows coaching directions is far more important in my opinion. 

I don't think there's any harm in slow playing a prospect and having them show you they're ready to advance beyond on a given level. Colas' plate discipline was pretty alarming in AA given the caliber of prospect he's supposed to be. It's entirely possible there would be an adjustment period for him once he gets beyond AA anyways so it'd be better for him to experience that in Charlotte than Chicago.

The Sox would also be in a much healthier position from a roster standpoint if Colas were penciled to enter the season in a depth role or Charlotte but of course we know this front office doesn't place any value whatsoever on depth. How many actual contenders would be comfortable with plan A for RF being the ~60th-130th best prospect in baseball with 0 depth whatsoever behind him in case he fails?

[Y2Jimmy0]

2 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I don't think there's any harm in slow playing a prospect and having them show you they're ready to advance beyond on a given level. Colas' plate discipline was pretty alarming in AA given the caliber of prospect he's supposed to be. It's entirely possible there would be an adjustment period for him once he gets beyond AA anyways so it'd be better for him to experience that in Charlotte than Chicago.

The Sox would also be in a much healthier position from a roster standpoint if Colas were penciled to enter the season in a depth role or Charlotte but of course we know this front office doesn't place any value whatsoever on depth. How many actual contenders would be comfortable with plan A for RF being the ~60th-130th best prospect in baseball with 0 depth whatsoever behind him in case he fails?

A front office that was essentially given $16 million to spend that needed two starting outfielders and a starting pitcher. 

[maxjusttyped]

Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said:

A front office that was essentially given $16 million to spend that needed two starting outfielders and a starting pitcher. 

It's been the same front office for this entire run. This is the bed they've made for themselves.

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 hour ago, maxjusttyped said:

It's been the same front office for this entire run. This is the bed they've made for themselves.

It’s true but the budget fluctuates from year to year depending on attendance and other factors. And the owner wasted the last two years on Tony La Russa 

[maxjusttyped]

9 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

It’s true but the budget fluctuates from year to year depending on attendance and other factors. And the owner wasted the last two years on Tony La Russa 

A healthy organization would have enough prospect capital built up where they can make upgrades via trade if the owner is trying your hands from a financial perspective. It's not like this is the only front office in baseball trying to build a winner with a cheap owner.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Oh it’s definitely on them. They know who they work for. 

[maxjusttyped]

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Oh it’s definitely on them. They know who they work for. 

Terrible front office with a terrible owner is how you get 22 years of the results we've seen with Jerry/KW/Hahn

yup.

[TheFutureIsNear]

13 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

There is a nice positional core developing outside of catcher:

• 1B: Vaughn
• 2B: Sosa/Popeye
• SS: Montgomery
• 3B: Ramos
• LF: Benintendi
• CF: Robert
• RF: Colas
• DH: Jimenez

Need some of the young pitchers to come through as well, but at least there is some reasons for optimism in the long-run.

This is why I just can’t be as doom and gloom as 98% of this board is. Don’t get me wrong, the front office has royal F’ed a lot of things up…but at the core there is still a lot of really good talent in this organization. Things aren’t as bleak as most would lead you to believe. No denying depth is an issue tho. 

[PolishPrince34]

Kiley McDaniel on the White Sox

25th overall
22nd in quality depth (prospects better than 40 FV)
$138.5 million total value
32 players

1. Colson Montgomery, SS, 60 FV (15th on the top 100)
2. Bryan Ramos, 3B, 50 FV (48)
3. Oscar Colas, RF, 45+ FV (170)
4. Noah Schultz, LHP, 45 FV
5. Lenyn Sosa, SS, 45 FV
6. Jose Rodriguez, SS, 45 FV
7. Peyton Pallette, RHP, 40+ FV
8. Cristian Mena, RHP, 40+ FV
9. Sean Burke, RHP, 40+ FV
10. Norge Vera, RHP, 40+ FV

40 FV (9): Jonathan Cannon/RHP, Yoelqui Cespedes/CF, Wes Kath/3B, Gregory Santos/RHP, Kohl Simas/RHP, Ryan Burrowes/SS, Jared Kelley/RHP, Nick Avila/RHP, Tanner McDougal/RHP

35+ FV (13): Wilfred Veras/1B, Carlos Perez/C, Matthew Thompson/RHP, Eric Adler/RHP, Franklin German/RHP, Jordan Sprinkle/SS, Bennett Sousa/LHP, A.J. Alexy/RHP, Yolbert Sanchez/SS, Luis Mieses/RF, Nicholas Padilla/RHP, Jason Bilous/RHP, Caleb Freeman/RHP

2023 Impact: Sosa
40+ FV breakout pick: Schultz
40 FV or less breakout pick: Cannon

Ranked prospects beyond the top 100

Colas was hyped as the next great Cuban power hitter for years because of a strong performances in his home country and time playing in Japan. He eventually signed with the White Sox just over a year ago for $2.7 million. He's a corner-only fit with the plus arm to fit in right field (he is also a former pitcher), strong athleticism for a big guy, and easy plus power that profiles in the middle of a lineup. As you might get used to hearing throughout this list, his pitch selection is below average and could undermine his inherent feel to hit. How he makes this adjustment will dictate if he's a one-dimensional role player or strong starter.

Schultz isn't the typical first-round prep pitcher launching mid-90s fastballs from a high-three-quarter slot but he still has an exciting upside. He is 6-7, slinging from a low-three-quarters slot with heavy life and the en vogue flat plane. After being seen extensively over the summer, he came out a bit late last spring due to illness combined with the Illinois weather and was sitting in the mid-90s with below-average command. By the time he reached his stride, the prep season was over and he was pitching in a college summer league flashing three plus pitches and the components for starter-quality command. If he never got ill and pitched in a warmer state, he might have been a consensus top-10 pick and thus could take off in 2023 with a clear platform to showcase his unique ability.

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Vera, on the other hand, is very much that typical young pitching prospect as a 6-4 projectable righty with mid-90s velo, feel for a good breaking ball and below-average command. Pallette gave off Walker Buehler vibes as a rocket-armed smallish righty with an easy-plus breaking ball as a sophomore at Arkansas, but he missed his whole draft spring due to Tommy John surgery. He is another pitcher who could take a huge step forward in a pro environment.

Sosa and Rodriguez are both tweener middle infielders who might fit better at second base, have plus bat control, below-average pitch selection and below-average power. Burke is on the starter/reliever borderline as he sits 93-95 mph with good lift to the pitch, two solid breaking balls and a rarely used changeup along with fringy command. Mena reached Double-A as a teenage starter and all three of his pitches and command project to be average or a bit above, but how much they improve will dictate if he's a utility arm or true starter.

Others of note

You can either look at it as not falling into the endowment effect or an indictment of their own pitching development that the back of the White Sox's 40-man is full of pitchers developed by other clubs who were generally available on waivers or in small trades. Santos (heater plays below the 98-100 mph velocity, slider is a 65 or 70) and Avila (94-97 mph with life, above-average cutter and slider) were acquired from the Giants, German (heater plays below the 96-99 mph velo, slider and curve both a tick above average) from the Red Sox, Padilla (92-95 mph, two fastball, two above-average breakers) from the Cubs, and Alexy (94-96 mph heater, four-pitch mix plays solid-average) from the Rangers system though technically was claimed off waivers from the Twins, whom he never pitched for. Padilla's six innings at the end of last summer are the only that this group has thrown in the White Sox's organization.

Cespedes, 25, is of note because of his last name/older brother and big raw tools (plus raw power, plus speed, plus-plus arm strength) but I'm on the low-end of projection for him due to his 45% chase rate. To put that in context, that is the worst chase rate (i.e. swinging at pitches outside of the strike zone) of any hitter ranked on any of these lists, minimum 100 balls in play last season. Scouts agreed Kath had real raw power and feel to get to it in games before the 2021 draft, but his contact ability has come in below expectations while his defensive ability has been better than expected.

Cannon looked like a late first-rounder for his last two seasons at Georgia, but concerns about forearm soreness moved him down draft boards. If he stays healthy, he has above-average-to-plus stuff and starter-level command at times. McDougal was a personal favorite projection arm in the 2021 draft before he missed the 2022 season due to Tommy John surgery. He is 6-5 with athleticism and three potential above-average pitches. Sprinkle had some compensation-round buzz early in the 2022 spring then fell apart down the stretch. He is a plus athlete with some feel to play shortstop and make contact at the plate.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

So these guys just rewrite each others words huh.  Ok they have him 7th on their list I'll put him 8th on mine.  They say he's a 50 runner I'll say he's a 55 runner.  They don't like his delivery I'll say I don't like his arm action, etc......